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goldiegeek

Something is seriously up with Steve's mouth

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Hi Guys,

I haven't been on in a while and I'm bummed to be back with this situation.

My 3 year old ranchu, Steve, has something going on with his mouth. I have been researching all day and have found absolutely nothing to point me in the right direction. I have never seen anything like it.

It looks like all of a sudden Steve has a cleft palate. The left corner of his mouth and cheek look almost like they've caved in. The inside of his mouth is swollen.

It's a bit of a shock because I have had these two since they were tiny. Probably about 3 months old. neither of them have ever been sick with anything. Neither have had any swim bladder issues. they eat voraciously. They spawn about every two-three weeks and have been since they started. I guess I have lost my "nothing ever happens in that tank" tank.

I will upload a video ASAP!

Tank info:

Ammonia: tank-0, tap-0

Nitrite: tank-0, tap-0

Nitrate: tank-10ppm, tap-0

pH: tank-0, tap-0

Test brand: API liquid test

Tank size: 60 gallons

Temp: 70

Running for 3 years

Filters: Marineland 350B x 2

Water changes: twice weekly 70%

Last water change: 2 days ago, 70%

Fish: 2 4" ranchus

Additives: Prime

Food: Hikari Lionhead, New Life Spectrum, Repashy Super Veggie, Hikari frozen bloodworms, fresh, cooked veggies

New fish: no

Medication history: routine treatment for flukes using Prazipro, 4 rounds. No fish were infected.

Unusual findings: Left cheek looks caved in, inside of mouth swollen.

Unusual behaviour: seems somewhat lethargic. He did spawn with his tank mate last night (not unusual) and was not as aggressive as he usually is, by far. When he stops swimming, his bum is slightly floaty.

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I'm sorry that they're not feeling well. :hug Can you get some pics up, and a video?

When was the last time you treated for flukes?

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u8ame3e8.jpg

Here is a bad photo in the meantime.

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I hope you figure out what's going on and Steve feels better soon!

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Hope he feels better.

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i think a video would be better.. that white at the bottom of his mouth, is that natural colour or is it cottony and do i see a blood spot near his mouth also? what medicines do you have available? please consider setting up a QT for him.

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I hope he feels better soon ... could his mouth just be stuck somehow? Does it look like anything is trapped inside? I had a goldfish who got his mouth stuck open (not sure how), but it resolved itself pretty quickly.

And your fish spawn every 2-3 weeks?!? That's insane. I am lucky to get one spawning a year. My fish spawned last August and I'm hoping they do it again this year, since I was totally unprepared last year. I'd like to raise just a couple of fry.

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Okay, here's some images.

gebu2a8a.jpg

ypy2uhu5.jpg

Video coming up.

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Okay, after hours (sadly, I mean that literally) of filming this fish, who will not look at me straight on and open his mouth, here are 2 very short videos. The quality is really bad. Not only does it look like it was recorded on VHS in 1976, but Steve was in front of a bubble wall. I'll have a better camera tomorrow. Sorry about that.

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I'm sorry that they're not feeling well. :hug Can you get some pics up, and a video?

When was the last time you treated for flukes?

The tank was treated for flukes in early 2014. I am so stumped.

I hope you figure out what's going on and Steve feels better soon!

Thanks Bronwyn! I am a little freaked out about this one.

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i think a video would be better.. that white at the bottom of his mouth, is that natural colour or is it cottony and do i see a blood spot near his mouth also? what medicines do you have available? please consider setting up a QT for him.

Qt is being set up as I type. Yes, it definitely looks like a blood spot. The colouration at the bottom of his mouth isn't actually like that. I think the light caught it. Nothing that looks like fungus. I have: Kanaplex, Neoplex, Bifuran, Para Guard, Methylene Blue, Malachite Green, salt and Prazipro.

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i have requested the opinion from others on the mod team.

my personal thoughts is whatever has affected your fish, the disfigurement of the mouth you see may be irreversible :( but, the fact that he is able to close his mouth, is a good sign. so if we can try to stop whatever it is that is causing this, he should be able to live a good life :)

i do think there is need to treat with an antibiotic and i feel that you should treat prazi also.

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I hope it all works out :hug

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I would at the very least begin prazi for Steve and the rest of your fish. I would follow the 5 day regimen outlined here http://www.kokosgoldfish.invisionzone.com/forum/index.php?/topic/105076-schedules-for-the-treatment-of-flukes-etc-using-praziquantel/

There is speculation that gill flukes can cause these types of mouth deformities in fish (I do not know what empirical evidence there is to support this assertion, but it seems to be widely recognized among breeders as a potential cause of mouth deformities if the deformity was not genetic). There may be other things at play here, but this is an easy one to treat and rule out. I agree with Helen that it is unlikely his mouth will return to normal, but hopefully you can prevent any further progression.

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Photo update: July 13

vy9a5any.jpg

Steve's tail fin has some white spots. You can see them from both sides of the fin (internal).

3ugu9y4u.jpg

More spots.

muhazuju.jpg

More spots.

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Steve's girlfriend, Quartz, has a spot on her wen. I'm thinking treating the whole tank is in order.

6e8uvyja.jpg

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One more shot of the spots. Are these flukes?

u5ezytyn.jpg

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you cannot see flukes without a microscope. they are that tiny in size :)

you have been handling these fish, often when we handle fish, their slime coat loosens where our hands have made contact. i am unable to see if they are actually white spots or if they are bubbles which have become trapped under loose slime coat. can you get a closer look at what they could be and share with us your findings?

the spot on the wen, that could possibly be wen growth, which is not uncommon at all :)

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I hope it all works out :hug

Thanks! Me too. It looks like it's driving him crazy:(

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Is there an antibiotic you specifically recommend? I am on my way out to get some more Prazi now.

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Oh, any benefit to using API General Cure (Prazi/metro) over Prazipro?

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how did you go with working out if they are white spots you are seeing or trapped bubbles under slime coat?

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how did you go with working out if they are white spots you are seeing or trapped bubbles under slime coat?

They are definitely not bubbles. It looks like super small grains of rice with a white border inside the fin...if that makes sense...

Those spots are what is making me consider General Cure over Prazi, but I have no experience with the effectiveness of General Cure. I'm thinking possible secondary parasitic infection due to compromised immune system.

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White spots depending on size and texture (hard for me to see them clearly on my phone) can be spots of slime coat build up as a result of irritation from flukes. I don't have suggestions regarding the antibiotic, but I would still strongly suggest treating with prazi personally

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ok :) you can go ahead and treat with the general cure. we understand that since there is Metronidazole in this product, that the treatment needs to run for 14 days (irrespective of what it says on the package). so yes, you can go ahead and start treating with the General Cure for 14 days :)

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