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blackmoors

Oranda wen collapsing?

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Hey guys, I have woken up to an issue with my Calico Oranda.

His wen seems to have "deflated" a bit in one spot and has gone from bright orange to a much lighter shade of whitish orange in the spot. it is also quite wobbly in the area of colour/form change.

I was due a water change tonight, so I have rescheduled it and just done it now ( I did a 50% change using prime)

I haven't used any medications as yet for this (although about 3 days ago the tank had a dose of melafix and pimafix).

I'm considering putting the heater on and adding salt to the tank.

all the water parameters have been spot on in the past. ( I didn't do a test prior to wc - bad I know, but I already knew it was due today so I just did it)

Nitrates, nitrites 0ppm, and ammonia all 0 - 0.25ppm. this tank has been running for approx. 8-10 months and was started with already cycled filter media.

oxygen saturation usually sits around 12mg/L

and ph is usually 7.6

current water temp is 23c.

My list of Available medications on hand to me are as follows.

- Prazi pro

- Melafix

- Pimafix

- Metronidazole

- Tri sulfa

- Seachem AquaZole

- Bacta

- Blue Planet Fluke & Tapeworm tablets

- Myxazin

-Aquari- cycline

- Salt

(none of the above medications have been used thusfar for this problem they are just whats avail. - I like to be ready for an emergency)

he has also taken to bottom sitting a bit, but does get up n swim around energetically when its feeding time or if I approach the tank.

Any assistance would be great.

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I know you have most of the form already up there, but could you fill out the rest please? It is linked in my signature. :)

Also, if you could post some photos/video that would be very helpful.

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Ok I tried cutting and pasting but it came up as gobbldy goop garbage. (On my phone)

Tap water parameters are all zero

Tank size is 40gal

Filtration fluval canister filter and a moving fluid bed k1 filter and a large air disc.

Wc every 4-5days usually about 30-50%

20140326_094834_zps3683412d.jpg

20140326_094837_zps411451d0.jpg

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The area im talking about is in the front right of the wen (left in the pic? Its a paler orange

Sorry for the poor pics.

Oh forgot test brand is api master test kit drops and backed up with Salifert test kits (to be sure my kits are accurate)

As for food im using tech den pellets for him as I always have.

His size- 4.5"-5" excluding tail

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Sooooo I guess starting 0.1% salt will be a start?

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Try to contact a vet and see if they will give you something.

Collapsed wen is very likely to be a staph infection, which is a Gram-positive bacterium. Some sort of tetracycline-family antibiotic member may be the best chance here. :)

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That anything like the aqua-cycline I listed above?

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That anything like the aqua-cycline I listed above?

That's tetracycline. It theoretically should work, but because of misuse, TC usually doesn't work very well anymore. If there is a nearby vet you can consult, that would be best. :)

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Ok thanks.

My vets a fair way away. And pretty much most vets dont seem to know much or care much about fish specially when its "just a goldfish"

I have some medicated food (soaked in aqua-cycline) I will give him some of that and slowly raise the salt upto 0.3% im also raising tank temp slowly too.

Fingers crossed and many wc later hopefully he improves

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Good luck!

It is critical that you are feeding enough Aquacycline, so make sure that the food contains enough, and that he is eating enough.

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Would it be better to treat the tank? Or medicated food better?

Is metronidazole any good for this?

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I think it would be better to treat the tank (in the QT water). If you can, add metro to it. This infection is serious, and hopefully the combination will be what we need.

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So aquaricycline food and metronidazole in the water?

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So aquaricycline food and metronidazole in the water?

No, I suggested up above that both should in the water, unless you are somehow certain that you can deliver the exact med dosage in the food to the fish.

Just in case you want to make absolutely sure that Aquaricycline is indeed tetracycline, it's right on the bottle :)

134841_1.jpg

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Small update.

He has been super active last 18hrs and very very hungry. I guess thats a good sign.

When I went to his tank he was swimming around just off the bottom when he saw me he flew to the top so fast he pocked his head about 2" out the water then proceed to "smack" away at the surface looking for food.

The wen looke pretty bad in that spot. The skin is flayying around all tattered abd there is a big hollow down to his head.

Only way to describe it is like a segment of orange has had its insides removed yet left attached to the rest of the orange....

Otherwise he looks pretty good im hoping that's a good thing. .

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Perhaps you might want to trim that part of the wen. Jeff is a huge proponent of that for wen ulcers.

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I'm so sorry your fish isn't looking well at this time. :hug

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I will have to do some research on that.

My aquarium shop where I got him from said its not uncommon for large orandas with large wens to "damage/cut/injur" their wens on things like filter inlets n outlets insearch of food etc (his wen was impeding his sight a bit I reckon)

Then fellow tank mates then "help" remove the offending bit of wen.......

He said salt, melafix and raise tank temp to aid healing and leave it at that.

Im hoping hes right and its not some crazy bacteria issue and will be easily healed..

IF.... it is all good would the wen grow back a bit?

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If he recovers the wen tissue will likely regenerate.

However, having dealt with wen issues in the past, I would follow Alex's advice over the pet stores. Wen problems can be very difficult to treat and can go from bad to worse quickly. Aggressive treatment tends to be the best course of action in my experience. It's not something that I would treat with just melafix and salt, particularly given the extent of the tissue damage already.

Good luck and please keep us updated :)

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I actually disagree very strongly with the shopkeeper's assessment, but I hope for the fish's sake that it is the case.

If you done a good job with setting up the tank, there shouldn't be anything for the fish to cut its wen on. Moreover, that looks like its dissolving from the inside out, and hence not compatible with that theory.

It is most definitely true that tankmates mates may find wen tasty. :o

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Im hoping he's right.......

Buuuuuut im doubting its true.

Yeah thats what I thought too Alex looks like an inside job :(

Just to clarify. ... I keep the salt at 0.3% while dosing with the metronidazole in the tank??

Or have I done it wrong?

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Im hoping he's right.......

Buuuuuut im doubting its true.

Yeah thats what I thought too Alex looks like an inside job :(

Just to clarify. ... I keep the salt at 0.3% while dosing with the metronidazole in the tank??

Or have I done it wrong?

Salt is OK with most of the meds, but I don't think it's really necessary to have both the meds and the salt. I would just use metro/aquacycline. :)

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