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goldiegeek

This is what is killing my fry (need identified)

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Is this what they look like up close? qyhe9adu.jpg

Is this what they look like?

Are they visibly on the fish?

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Oh and yes, they are on the fish. It's sad.

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Ok well its not what I posted then.

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What I posted I get in my tanks and is harmless. I was thinking its possible it could be them your seeing but mybe something unseen that actually causing the problem. Just trying to rule out a possibility. Have you used parzi with the fry at all?

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Hi Gg, sorry to hear that you are having trouble with your fry. Three weeks old are normally at a critical stage of development and can get sick very easily. Right now what you need is quick action if not you'll likely to lose most of them.

First cull all those that already look crooked, those tiny ones, bent body, swollen gills( fungus like attachments) and those can't swim..eg sitting at bottom...they are goners I'm afraid.

Then clean out your 5g with just water and remove the sponge filter ( you don't need that and besides it's also a source of contamination).

Fill up to 50% capacity and add salt 0.3% .use airstone... No filter!

Start one round of Prazi the next day. I am afraid you may also have some "good" ones starting to die but don't panic... Just remove them

It'll take a couple of days before it can be brought until control.

Do 100% w/cs daily and add back salt and Prazi accordingly. Feed sparingly if got appetite or purge if not

I have just helped my friend stabilized his oranda fry four days ago. He did like what I mentioned but he used 0.5% salt. His fry are also three weeks old and much bigger.

Good luck

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Awesome advice! Unfortunately all of the fry have passed. I have some eggs cooking though. Definitely will do the salt and cull them. Do you do clove oil for fry? I start Prazi at one week old, maybe I should start sooner. Are you available for house calls? lol

The no filter part is a little scary, but at this point I'll do anything that could help. Those sponges are almost impossible clean too.

Do you recommend continuing with spring water? I have supersaturated gases, so I've started using it with this last batch.

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What I posted I get in my tanks and is harmless. I was thinking its possible it could be them your seeing but mybe something unseen that actually causing the problem. Just trying to rule out a possibility. Have you used parzi with the fry at all?

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

I start Prazi at one week old, 4 rounds. I have tried starting at three days old with no luck. Are those Detritus worms? They can be harmful to fry. I saw one eating an egg at one point...I hate creepy crawlies...

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:hug Sarah, I'm so sorry this keeps happening. I am glad, though, you were able to get pics. When you described it before, that's about what I thought it would look like. But, I'm sorry I'm not any help with diagnosis. At least you know you aren't seeing things. What a lousy thing to have to deal with. I would definitely look at the main tank you are going to breed from and start treatment from there. The parents must carry whatever this parasite is and just have enough immunity that they aren't showing signs. Good luck!

Thanks:) I am bound and determined to figure this out. It is making me a little worried about my other tanks. I would be mortified if this turns out to be some huge parasitic, bacterial outbreak. I'm thinking of treating the other tanks for bacteria. I just have to figure out the safest, broadest spectrum medication. Two of my veiltails' tails are splitting as of three days ago. I thought it was my evil oranda. I've seen him nipping at their tails. I'm starting to think it's tank related. Boo...

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Im not sure what the name is for these little guys. I always see a few in a tank here or there normally I dont see many unless I am over feeding. Those are in the baby snail tank where I am feeding heavily lol. I also see a few small flat worms right now. But its nothing unexpected. I have saw a free floating one hang on a snail antenna before but they dont seem interested in the snails of fish.

ytuqyjez.jpg here is a pic of what im talking about. But even when I have had population explosions in fish tanks in the past ive never saw one on a fish.

I have to admit at first I was just thinking bad genetics causing defects that is causing them all to die. But with the diversity of the parentage you described I find this an unlikely cause now.

At this point im personally in over my head. But you are getting lots of good help so hopefully they will be able to help you figure this out.

I wish you luck in your next batch.

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Sarah, time to thoroughly bleach all of your equipments. :hug

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Sarah from what I remember, your fry haven't made it past the 4th week? If that's right, I wouldn't worry about not having a filter. I didn't add mine until 4 weeks, and I think I could have waited even longer. As long as you are doing the water changes and removing the debris, the fry will be okay. In that first month, I really liked doing the back and forth transfer (as long as you don't have too many). I always felt good knowing I was doing a 100% w/c and the temp was perfectly matched...and if you are medicating..there is no guessing about the dosage amount each time. :)

Look at me! :blahblah OMG...what a know it all! :rofl3 Definitely not!

This may be a little far fetched, but maybe you could contact the biology/zoology/micro dept. at a local university/college and see if they could put you in contact with a grad student that may love this kind of case. Surely, they would have a microscope. :idont

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I am sure I will not be the one to solve this mystery but I wanted to chime in that I would not bother with a filter in this case either. Another observation is that if this is round 10 or 11.and you mention there has been about !00.eggs, there is probably an issue with the quality of the eggs. There could easily be 100 eggs from 1 healthy round.

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Looks like you might be doing something not right if you keep having a zero return. Start with conditioned tap water as spring water is risky in the modern world.

Also forget about using a broad spectrum antibiotic, fry cannot be so easily treated, prevention is the best alternative. Breeders usually dump the whole spawn if they are having problems like yours and start over. Breeding is fun and should be as easy as A B C.

Now that you have understood the whole process, I think you'll do better next time. How Strong your fry will turn out also depends a lot on the parents. Don't be too quick to reach for medications on your main tanks.

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I think Jeff has given you some good suggestions. You might also want to re-read the comments that Michael made to you in the Jan 14 thread at post number 6: http://www.kokosgold...on-fry-killers/

He also offered this:

Fish fry are so delicate even a single big nematode fluke can start the process of the follow on after bite infection which causes mucus build up and fry death. salt flush folowed by a mild antibiotic bath can sometimes help. But best solution is to ,gulp, chuck them all out and begin over with parents treated for fluke and then the eggs in fluke meds from day one. at least that is how I do it with great results.

I hope this helps :)

Absolutely saw that. I figured I was covered with the Prazi, but I guess it could be getting through. Any suggestions on a mild antibiotic? Geez, that makes me nervous with fry. I certainly wouldn't want to pick one out myself. lol. The main tank has been started on Prazi to see if that helps. I wish I had a microscope. I know there's only so much that can be ruled out through photos...thanks:)

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Looks like you might be doing something not right if you keep having a zero return. Start with conditioned tap water as spring water is risky in the modern world.

Also forget about using a broad spectrum antibiotic, fry cannot be so easily treated, prevention is the best alternative. Breeders usually dump the whole spawn if they are having problems like yours and start over. Breeding is fun and should be as easy as A B C.

Now that you have understood the whole process, I think you'll do better next time. How Strong your fry will turn out also depends a lot on the parents. Don't be too quick to reach for medications on your main tanks.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

This was my first attempt with spring water, just to rule out my water. I have to be missing something, especially if it's that easy for everyone lol. It's starting to make me nervous that something is going on in the main tank and symptoms haven't become obvious yet. The longest I ever went was about 5 weeks with my first fry. I'd really love to know what that is in the photo...

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I am sure I will not be the one to solve this mystery but I wanted to chime in that I would not bother with a filter in this case either. Another observation is that if this is round 10 or 11.and you mention there has been about !00.eggs, there is probably an issue with the quality of the eggs. There could easily be 100 eggs from 1 healthy round.

That was my first issue. I would have over 100 eggs in a batch, then lose almost all of them before they hatch. Now I leave them in the tank until the day before they hatch, so I get about 15-20 to grow out, but they're gone by week 3. I feel like I have to defeat this lol. Someone should take my breeding egg back from under my signature... :tomuch:

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Sarah from what I remember, your fry haven't made it past the 4th week? If that's right, I wouldn't worry about not having a filter. I didn't add mine until 4 weeks, and I think I could have waited even longer. As long as you are doing the water changes and removing the debris, the fry will be okay. In that first month, I really liked doing the back and forth transfer (as long as you don't have too many). I always felt good knowing I was doing a 100% w/c and the temp was perfectly matched...and if you are medicating..there is no guessing about the dosage amount each time. :)

Look at me! :blahblah OMG...what a know it all! :rofl3 Definitely not!

This may be a little far fetched, but maybe you could contact the biology/zoology/micro dept. at a local university/college and see if they could put you in contact with a grad student that may love this kind of case. Surely, they would have a microscope. :idont

That's a great idea. If I were a student, I'd want to figure it out. I just don't want to find out that there's something really nasty in my water...although if there is, it's probably good to know. I'm wondering if the filter on my house has collected and is growing some sort of bacteria or something...eeeeew.

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Sarah, time to thoroughly bleach all of your equipments. :hug

I am so on it. I'm sure when I eventually figure this out, it will be a huge "duh" moment. lol

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Im not sure what the name is for these little guys. I always see a few in a tank here or there normally I dont see many unless I am over feeding. Those are in the baby snail tank where I am feeding heavily lol. I also see a few small flat worms right now. But its nothing unexpected. I have saw a free floating one hang on a snail antenna before but they dont seem interested in the snails of fish.

ytuqyjez.jpg here is a pic of what im talking about. But even when I have had population explosions in fish tanks in the past ive never saw one on a fish.

I have to admit at first I was just thinking bad genetics causing defects that is causing them all to die. But with the diversity of the parentage you described I find this an unlikely cause now.

At this point im personally in over my head. But you are getting lots of good help so hopefully they will be able to help you figure this out.

I wish you luck in your next batch.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

I did see a few detritus worms a while ago. They would go right for the eggs. That was first "diagnosis" as they can also be dangerous to fry. Then I went with a parasite that likes the digestive tract, since it was coming from the vents. But then it was on the gills too. So I'm thinkingm what parasite likes gills and vents...and I can't find any. It's always one or the other. I'm really into the science behind this, so it's driving me nuts that I can't figure it out. I was hoping I'd post the photo and someone would say "Oh, I had those, they are *enter mystery solving statement here*. lol

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That's a great idea. If I were a student, I'd want to figure it out. I just don't want to find out that there's something really nasty in my water...although if there is, it's probably good to know. I'm wondering if the filter on my house has collected and is growing some sort of bacteria or something...eeeeew.

:saywhat NO FEAR!!! You definitely want to know if there is something nasty in the water so you can fix it!

Then you'll be able to say... :mytank1:

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