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waterfaller1

What Is The Secret?

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Carole, you are in year-around pond country. Goldfish do so well in ponds here (including reproducing) that I am almost wishing some of mine would die. I can help you set up a pond and give you "cast iron" stock for it -- and that includes some fancies. Once you get a successful pond going, you can set up a tank again with some confidence.

That is a very generous offer. Let us see how the second foreclosure goes...court date is next week. :( I would be very concerned in this neighborhood though with them out outside. maybe inside a porch or something. I am right near a lake, and there are raccoons the size of beagles, every water and predatory bird, from herons to hawks, owls and bald eagles. possums, rats, feral cats... I do not think it would be safe here.

I live across the street from a lake. People who feed the many feral (abandoned) cats in the neighborhood complain of the raccoons stealing the cat food. Herons, egrets, and sand hill cranes, fly overhead and stroll down the sidewalk. Hawks, owls and eagles soar above. In four years, none of these has bothered my fish. A stock tank pond sitting on the ground is safe from most predators. A raccoon can perch on the side of the tank, but unless the fish come to say hi, can't reach the fish. If the tank is uncovered, a heron can stand in the pond and catch fish. But with all the open lakes with shallows to wade in that isn't very attractive. A simple screen cover provides complete protection.

A shallow preformed pond with plant shelves around the sides is a buffet for predators, but many have fish in these for years with no predation. A koi pond with a depth of over three feet and vertical walls is safe from wading birds as well as raccoons.

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I think that at this point, it might be worth mentioning that Carole is far from being a novice at keeping fish, and she has quite bit of experience actually. The problem here is not about knowing how to properly maintain a healthy tank, but rather DESPITE the know-how, there just seems to be unacceptable numbers of loss within a time frame. This is a problem that we all have, and it seems to me even more magnified when one purchases full grown fish, sometimes seemingly regardless of source. I do think that in part, this has to do with the "they don't make them like they used to." Goldfish these days can be big bucks, and it's not unimaginable for breeders of exported fish to cut corners.

Thanks for that Alex. I have spent wayyyy too much on them. I admit it.

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Wow..I have so much catching up to do on this thread! I thought I could quote and respond individually. Or at least go through and read it all, and answer the pertinent parts. I am glad I started this thread. Today is my dog's birthday, so I had to go to the big box store for nylabones, treats, and a toy. So I happen to go by the tanks of course. Lots of beautiful shebunkins and comets. And I saw something I have never seen them do. It appeared they had a single tail goldfish in many of the tanks with tropical types...just one in each. One was very gorgeous and I had to convince myself no no no!! He went from yellow to orange, to white, to orange yellow and white on the tail. LOL..hopelessly pathetic.

I just got home, so let me get some things done and I will come back and address the many comments and questions. Thank you all so very much. This is such a great community of really caring and supportive people. I do appreciate it!

Gah ... I wish my dogs would chew on nylabones. I got them a 3-pack and they were like ummm ... what's that, Mom? My Chihuahua mix, Roxy, still hasn't found anything she would rather chew on than paper ... yes, paper ...

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I get him the really knobby ones and it keeps his teeth clean. Today I found some kind of curly horn, and he went nuts for it and hasn't put it down yet.

Carole, you are in year-around pond country. ?Goldfish do so well in ponds here (including reproducing) that I am almost wishing some of mine would die. ?I can help you set up a pond and give you "cast iron" stock for it -- and that includes some fancies. ?Once you get a successful pond going, you can set up a tank again with some confidence.

That is a very generous offer. Let us see how the second foreclosure goes...court date is next week. :( I would be very concerned in this neighborhood though with them out outside. maybe inside a porch or something. I am right near a lake, and there are raccoons the size of beagles, every water and predatory bird, from herons to hawks, owls and bald eagles. possums, rats, feral cats... I do not think it would be safe here.

What I hear from breeders is when they ask what the secret is to 'fish keeping' 'the perfect fish' etc etc. it is to breed your own. Don't know why :idont I've noted this reference in regards to quarantine procedures in the Noga book :)

Hmm..have to have 'em live long enough to breed them though!

The same is true for my area ... lots of raccoons, possums and skunks in California. I'd love to have an indoor pond, but am getting a condo and although it is a pretty big one, there just isn't any room. :-(

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If you think about it we keep our (for the most part) unnatural fish in a very unnatural environment. I doubt nature would have actually come up with a Black Moor(a half blind, bug-eyed fish that waddles??)! And our goldies live in a big ole glass enclosure. We work at keeping the environment safe & happy. We spent often unbelievable amounts of money on the tank & fish. We study everything we can to learn the secret to being successful. Then we pick out come goldies & have at it. We adore them & pamper them..........do the very best we know how but occasionally they crap out on us. I wouldn't want an actual count of the fish I have had over the many years of keeping them!! I have thought of giving up. But I adore them & I will continue to do the best I can to keep them happy & healthy!!

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I'm so sorry for your most recent loss of fish, Carole. :hug It is totally understandable to get discouraged.

I hope you continue with your goldfish keeping though. I've always enjoyed seeing your posts, video's, and photo's of your fish. You have some of the most gorgeous fish and your a great owner to them.

I don't know about having any "secrets" to fish keeping but I have learned here, and believe also, in the 18 months of having goldfish myself to keep up on huge (85% plus) weekly water changes, if not even more frequent and to keep ones tank under stocked.

I hope I continue to see you on Koko's site with your gorgeous huge aquarium and goldfish. :)

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If you think about it we keep our (for the most part) unnatural fish in a very unnatural environment. I doubt nature would have actually come up with a Black Moor(a half blind, bug-eyed fish that waddles??)

You'd be surprised with what nature will arrive at as the end result...

Posted Image

Posted Image

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If you think about it we keep our (for the most part) unnatural fish in a very unnatural environment. I doubt nature would have actually come up with a Black Moor(a half blind, bug-eyed fish that waddles??)

You'd be surprised with what nature will arrive at as the end result...

y4y2u8e9.jpg

qepenuqa.jpg

Looks like some of my husband's old family photos! :o

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If you think about it we keep our (for the most part) unnatural fish in a very unnatural environment. I doubt nature would have actually come up with a Black Moor(a half blind, bug-eyed fish that waddles??)

You'd be surprised with what nature will arrive at as the end result...

y4y2u8e9.jpg

qepenuqa.jpg

And it doesn't stop there, either. :rofl Behold!

batfish.jpg

The Red Lipped Batfish, which has the ability to walk on it's pectoral fins

anglerfish-teeth.jpg

And let's not forget our buddy, the Angler Fish. ;)

I can go on and on. Deep sea marine fish are the oddest creatures. Here's a little supplementary video I found with more weird fish, if you're interested.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-H9AJjmidK8

Sorry Carole, this is really off-topic. :rofl2 :rofl2

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Hi Carole, chilodonella is a parasite that has sometimes developed a resistance to salt and any other treatment out there for parasites. The only things that work will also kill your fish. It can lay dormant in unused tanks, filters and accessories in an encysted form I believe. I had it go thru my tanks at about the same time Fantailfan1 had it go thru hers. I gave up goldfish for a few years and when I got back into goldies last fall I ended losing my three little ones to it. I bought a new tank, filters etc. and have started over again. I believe fantailfan1 did the same thing.

So far ,there's been no sign of it. Under a microscope it is much bigger than costia, is oval and moves around like bumper cars careening into each other. You don't ever want to get it.

Edited by gran'sgoldies1

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Your story sounds all too familiar. I lost a number of goldies and could never seem to keep them longer than a year--usually less. And other than a couple fantails they were all comets/commons and I still had them pass too soon! So I gave up on them for awhile and concentrated on my tropicals. The trops are fun and rewarding but my fishy life just didn't feel complete until I finally got another gf. Again I went for a cheap feeder as I hate to invest in something that won't last. But to my total surpise he thrived in his 30 gal hexagon tank that others had died in. Even when I didn't do regular water changes and even though all I fed him was flake food!! I don't recommend that of course but that is what happened at the time. And I not only have passed the year mark but have now had him for 4 years and he has grown and changed into a stunning white comet with a gorgeous long, flowing tail. He now resides in a 40 gal breeder with 3 tankmates that I've had for 3 years. Lots of water changes is always a must but it's working out. So my gf keeping has totally turned around and is going great. I am not sure why but even my tropical losses have become almost nonexistant with most dying of old age now instead of some illness or unexplained event. I wish I knew what the secret was so I could share it but all I know is don't give up. Odds are you will end up with stronger fish sooner or later and they will do well for you too. :)

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If you think about it we keep our (for the most part) unnatural fish in a very unnatural environment. I doubt nature would have actually come up with a Black Moor(a half blind, bug-eyed fish that waddles??)

You'd be surprised with what nature will arrive at as the end result...

y4y2u8e9.jpg

qepenuqa.jpg

And it doesn't stop there, either. :rofl Behold!

batfish.jpg

The Red Lipped Batfish, which has the ability to walk on it's pectoral fins

anglerfish-teeth.jpg

And let's not forget our buddy, the Angler Fish. ;)

I can go on and on. Deep sea marine fish are the oddest creatures. Here's a little supplementary video I found with more weird fish, if you're interested.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-H9AJjmidK8

Sorry Carole, this is really off-topic. :rofl2 :rofl2

I reference to that video, I've gone to the beach before and had my plans ruined by warning signs for stone fish...oh Australia, always trying to kill people :P

(Sorry you're going through a rough patch Carole, I'm sure you'll pull through it :) )

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I am so sorry this is happening. I am in the same boat. In the past two months I have lost 2 fish (one this morning) to equipment intake failures. I know it's not my fault, but it feels like it is. I guess sometimes, even with our very best efforts, poop happens that is beyond our control. I feel like I live in a house of fish horrors and I should spare the others.

Your tanks are beautiful, you obviously take amazing care of your fish. I think the secret is perseverance. This is a very challenging hobby and so much can go wrong. I've had a rough patch the last few months with the 2 losses and Ich/flukes...in 8 tanks. I seriously thought about giving up, but what would I do with all that spare time? Probably wait a week and buy another tank. Also, I'd never find anyone good enough to give my fish to:)

Don't give up. Everyone here is amazingly supportive and ready to help anytime. *big hugs*

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If you think about it we keep our (for the most part) unnatural fish in a very unnatural environment. I doubt nature would have actually come up with a Black Moor(a half blind, bug-eyed fish that waddles??)

You'd be surprised with what nature will arrive at as the end result...

y4y2u8e9.jpg

qepenuqa.jpg

Goblin Shark anyone?

TIBUR%25C3%2593N-DUENDE-2.jpg

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Nice teeth!

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Thanks for the good wishes and great info! Thanks too for the pics of cool fish. I love nature..it is constantly amazing.

I have kept some very interesting species myself. Both fresh and saltwater.

here are a couple cool ones

Picture752.jpg

shredder.jpg

and this is one of my favorite fish..can you find her? :D

Picture1423.jpg

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Sorry you're having troubles with your tank :(

I skimmed through all the other answers, and I'm sure I am just reiterating here, but really I think the best we can do is provide a good amount of water volume and make sure conditions in the tank are kept as 'clean' as possible through water changes and substrate cleaning. What 'a good amount of water volume' means is going to vary from person to person, we have general guidelines to follow, but I have to admit that I lean toward the 'the more volume the better' camp. I totally understand wanting to fully stock a tank and don't judge anyone for doing this, but I do think that understocking can be a great way to hedge the bets in your favor so to speak. It certainly is not a magic bullet to keep an understocked tank, but I do think that the chances of significant health issues can be reduced by doing this.

The other thing is, sometimes these things just happen :idont even the most experienced and diligent fish keeper is going to experience losses. We do our best to stack the cards in our favor by QTing, providing adequate tank space, keeping up on water changes etc. etc. but there are some things that are simply out of our control. I think this is especially true when dealing with older imported fancies.... we don't know what type of conditions they have been exposed to, what type of pathogens they may carry, or what treatments they have had in the past. There are a lot of unknowns.

Anyways, I hope you don't give up on the hobby! If anything, you may want to consider not replacing lost fish for awhile and keep an understocked tank until things settle down a bit :)

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