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Akari_32

Getting good wen growth

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I was wondering, how do you people improve wen growth in your orandas, ect? I've tried a higher protein diet (fresh fish, bloodworms, and beef heart mixed with veggies in a gel food). I've tried giving them more bloodworms, beef hearts, ect, treats on a weekly basis, and I'm now on my third type of Goldfish food (New Life Scpectrum then Hikari Oranda Gold, and now have Saki Hikari on order).

The NLS they do really well on as far as diet goes, but they pellets available here are only the 1 mm ones, and they are quickly becoming too small for all but one of my fish (unless you count the danios ;)).

The Hikari Oranda Gold makes all the fish in the 50 gallon float. The pellets themselves are floating pellets, and once they've been in the water for a minute or so, they expand and double in size! So not only do they fish have to eat from the surface, but then the food expands in their tummies. These combined make the fish that don't normally float, float. This now gets fed to the ponds, and to my big fantail, Bruce.

I've now got on order Saki Hikari. It was a great price on Pet Mountain and I needed a ferts and stuff as it was, and my friend got a bunch of dog stuff. So, free shipping :) Anyways... Lol We'll see how that works, I guess.

Now, my plan is, with the NLS pellets (or maybe a mix of the NLS and Saki Hikari), to make gel food with it. I've yet to find agar agar, so I've been using Knox Unflavored Gelatine. Works great, doesn't cause any issues.

I buy salmon fresh, use it then if I can, if not I freeze it. For the rest of the meat content, i use a random combination of frozen brine shrimp, bloodworms, and/or spiralina brine shrimp to equal 2 or so ounces. The last batch I used banana. This was a huge hit, and I'll do it again, I think. The reason behind banana is good growth. Not sure what it is about bananas, but a lot of people with young fish that get in the foot+ range love it. And I always use fresh yellow squash, and zucchini, and a can of squash baby food. Then some garlic, too.

I use a packet of probiotics (the kind you sprinkle into a drink or whatever) and a Publix Greenwise Children's Chewable Multi-vitamin. Easy to crush lol I've been actually dissolving them in the frozen food while it thaws in a little spring water. That's much easier.

I want to add more as far as veggies, but not sure what? Ideas? Once I add a few spoonfulls of pellets, the whole thing usually weighs 4-6 ounces, 50/50 meats and veggies. Like I said, I really want nice wen growth on my orandas, but I also need a diet that is balanced for the whole lot (oranda, fantail, telescope, moor, common, comet, shubunkin). I'm not dealing with separate diets for the different tanks and ponds lol

Thanks bunches for reading! It's really long....

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Honestly, I have seen the best wen growth just feeding frozen bloodworms by themselves a couple of times per week. This has also helped my Ryukin develop her hump.

As for the banana, I don't think that is something healthy to feed more than once per month as a treat. Bananas and other fruits are quite high in sugar, which generally isn't a recommended addition to their daily diet.

As for the veggies, there is a long list of them in 'pinned topics' here in the food section. Green beans, kale, red leaf lettuce, and spinach are all good choices in my opinion.

More people should chime in soon.

Edit: How are you finding the squash in terms of color development in your orange fish? Does it seem to make them any brighter?

Edited by ChelseaM

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It's not a lot of banana. An ounce or less. Theres more of everything else for sure. Basically wanted to use the banana food for the spring so they could get some weight on and have that extra boost durring any breeding. But they really like it, so I figured a bit less in their normal diet would be ok.

Can lettuces be frozen long term without reducing their already small nutritional value? I've got a lizard that eats mainly spring mix, but he's doesn't eat a lot, and I don't have to make fish food very often. Being able to freeze lettuce would allow for more variety in both pet departments...

As far as color with squash goes, I chose that because we always have it, for the lizard, and because it's got a lot of good stuff packed in to it. The outdoor fish have great colors (oranges are more red) and the indoor fish have pretty good colors as far as indoor fish go.

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The Hikari Lionhead pellets are good for wen growth. You can order New Life Spectrum 2mm or 3mm pellets online from Amazon.com. This is what I use in combination with Repashy Solient Green, Bloodworms and Lettuce.

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PS- the NLS 2mm pellets are called "medium fish formula" but the ingredients are the same as the goldfish formulas.

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I seem to remember Alex mentioning that spinach is better off fed on its own than in a homemade recipe, as there's something (oxalate?) in it that restricts iron-absorption to only itself. so any additional veg that contains iron is wasted, or something like that. this was like a year ago though so I can't remember entirely and advice might have changed since lol.

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The Hikari Lionhead pellets are good for wen growth. You can order New Life Spectrum 2mm or 3mm pellets online from Amazon.com. This is what I use in combination with Repashy Solient Green, Bloodworms and Lettuce.

I can get the full line of NLS at PetCo. Just only some of the sizes are available. Mainly 2 mm. But these come is Cichlid formulas. Cichlids are really popular here.

PS- the NLS 2mm pellets are called "medium fish formula" but the ingredients are the same as the goldfish formulas.

They have the same ingredients, yes, but the percentages of proteins, fiber, and so on are different, meaning they vary in the amounts of ingredients.

I seem to remember Alex mentioning that spinach is better off fed on its own than in a homemade recipe, as there's something (oxalate?) in it that restricts iron-absorption to only itself. so any additional veg that contains iron is wasted, or something like that. this was like a year ago though so I can't remember entirely and advice might have changed since lol.

I've heard this, too. And something similar about kale?

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Kale has very little oxalic acid - almost the least of any green vegetable :)

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Kale has very little oxalic acid - almost the least of any green vegetable :)

Not *exactly* the same thing! Something along the same lines as too much of something lol

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For veggies, you can always do something I've done: Add a jar of veggie baby food to your gel food. It's already puréed and the prep is done for you. I favored varieties that contained mainly green veggies and/or squash.

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For veggies, you can always do something I've done: Add a jar of veggie baby food to your gel food. It's already pur?ed and the prep is done for you. I favored varieties that contained mainly green veggies and/or squash.

I do use baby food in addition to the fresh veggies. I use summer or winter squash baby food, and last time I use sweet potato. Can't say why, but it seemed like a good choice lol

The only veggie ones are peas, squash, carrots or sweet potato. Otherwise they're meat mixes, fruit mixes or rice mixes.

Edited by Akari_32

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The Hikari Lionhead pellets are good for wen growth. You can order New Life Spectrum 2mm or 3mm pellets online from Amazon.com. This is what I use in combination with Repashy Solient Green, Bloodworms and Lettuce.

I can get the full line of NLS at PetCo. Just only some of the sizes are available. Mainly 2 mm. But these come is Cichlid formulas. Cichlids are really popular here.

PS- the NLS 2mm pellets are called "medium fish formula" but the ingredients are the same as the goldfish formulas.

They have the same ingredients, yes, but the percentages of proteins, fiber, and so on are different, meaning they vary in the amounts of ingredients.

I seem to remember Alex mentioning that spinach is better off fed on its own than in a homemade recipe, as there's something (oxalate?) in it that restricts iron-absorption to only itself. so any additional veg that contains iron is wasted, or something like that. this was like a year ago though so I can't remember entirely and advice might have changed since lol.

I've heard this, too. And something similar about kale?

I have not looked at the NLS Cichlid formula. But I have compared the Medium Fish formula analysis with the Goldfish formula and with other Goldfish foods. The percentages were comparable and both my sister and myself have had great results feeding this 2mm pellet to our fancies.

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I think we've discussed this before, genetics is the biggest factor in determining how much wen growth a fish is going to get. A good diet certainly helps, but by itself it's not enough.

You need to be prepared that some of your fish just aren't going to get the kind of wen you are hoping for.

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My Oranda's and Ranchu's do great on NLS sinking pellet's and frozen bloodworm's.

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I think we've discussed this before, genetics is the biggest factor in determining how much wen growth a fish is going to get. A good diet certainly helps, but by itself it's not enough.

You need to be prepared that some of your fish just aren't going to get the kind of wen you are hoping for.

We have, yes lol The difference now is i have two new Oranda that actually show potential for nice wens and I want to help them along as much as I can. The other two I've given up on, as far as wen growth goes :P

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I think we've discussed this before, genetics is the biggest factor in determining how much wen growth a fish is going to get. A good diet certainly helps, but by itself it's not enough.

You need to be prepared that some of your fish just aren't going to get the kind of wen you are hoping for.

We have, yes lol The difference now is i have two new Oranda that actually show potential for nice wens and I want to help them along as much as I can. The other two I've given up on, as far as wen growth goes :P

The same discussions that we had a few months ago still apply today. :)

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I have 4 goldfish with slow wen growth and I'm not doing anything to make it grow. I figured if it grows it grows. I do agree with dnalex above though. With that said, I want my fish to have big, huge wen growth like what I've seen here on others beautiful goldfish. I think in time my Oranda's and Crowned Pearlscale will have one. How big? Probably not the huge growth I want. My poor Red Cap, don't think so, not. Very little coming in. I also feed my fish the New Life Spectrum and the Omega One pellets along with peas and broccoli. I keep it pretty simple with their food.

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I keep it pretty simple with their food.

^This. :)

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I think we've discussed this before, genetics is the biggest factor in determining how much wen growth a fish is going to get. A good diet certainly helps, but by itself it's not enough.

You need to be prepared that some of your fish just aren't going to get the kind of wen you are hoping for.

We have, yes lol The difference now is i have two new Oranda that actually show potential for nice wens and I want to help them along as much as I can. The other two I've given up on, as far as wen growth goes :P

The same discussions that we had a few months ago still apply today. :)

But that was sooooo long ago, and searching for things on forums on my iPhone is a pain LOL In my defense, I did look around some before posting :P

I basically just wanted to make sure I was doing what I could (with out making myself crazy) to help them along, and that their diets were right to do so. I learned a few things! :)

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I keep it pretty simple with their food.

^This. :)

Awe. Made me smile. :) I should feel bad that I don't do much for my fish but I don't. ha ha I just love them and enjoy them so much.

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I keep it pretty simple with their food.

^This. :)

Awe. Made me smile. :) I should feel bad that I don't do much for my fish but I don't. ha ha I just love them and enjoy them so much.

I am always mindful that this hobby has been around for many hundreds of years, and is maintained across multiple economic strata. It's supposed to be a zen thing, and making things complicated is only going to be give you headaches. :rofl

____________________

Akari, I feel your pain, and I wish I could help you. However, we spent a LOT of time on these discussions around. So, I think it's good if you can go back and read up on these things again. There are also amazing threads in the archives that are all about helping wen grow.

I don't mean any offense, but laziness on your part really doesn't make me want to put in any effort. That's almost like taking advantage, and I much prefer partnerships, where we work together. :)

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Don't get me wrong, I have looked around. It's how I came up with everything I use in my food. I don't currently have access to a computer, and searching the forum on my phone through the mobile website is rather annoying, and extremely time consuming.

As I said, I wanted to make sure I was providing a good diet, and if there was anything I should add, ect.

Someone said something about a thread with a list of good veggies to use. Can't find it.

I asked if lettuces could be frozen long term for storage, as I'd like to use them for the Goldfish, and I have other critters to feed them to, and got no answer. Perhaps no ones tried it, who knows.

And I'm curious about others thoughts on the use of banana in their regular diet. I've just begun feeding the outdoor fish again last week or so. They've been getting the Oranda Gold pellets to start off with, but as they get going, I plan on feeding them the gel in the freezer. That's got all the stuff listed on the first page.

There are still things to be addressed. Obviously, not every one will have something to input, and I know that. But focusing on the same thing isn't getting anyone anywhere. I'm not being as lazy as you seem to think I am.

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I think that fruits have been discussed quite a number of times, actually.

As for the question of lettuce, it's not really a fish question, but more a question of whether it can be frozen to use, and for how long, if yes. For that, Google is quite useful. :)

http://www.livestrong.com/article/512158-how-to-freeze-lettuce-leaves/

I also include some incredibly good readings on goldfish food :)

http://www.raingarden.us/bloodworms.htm

http://www.raingarden.us/bloodworms_legos.pdf

http://www.raingarden.us/feeding.pdf

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