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Orangebetsy

Anyone have information on fast pH changes?

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Hello Fishy Lovers,

So, Blub is in his new 55 gallon, it having fully cycled fishlessly. All water parameters were holding steady, with nice flourishing anacharis plants. Suddenly this morning, Blub was flashing around a bit, and when I did the API pH test, the water tested greenish at about 6.5! Wow! I'm in NYC and water's usually alkaline.

I had to go to rehearsal righ then and there, so I couldn't put a pH up in the water until after i got home from work....so I bought AFI pH up and said a prayer. Came home about 5 hours later, ready to put in the pH Up i bought and took the AFI pH test again---but now it's BLUE back to where it always tests, about 7.6 !!! ALL BY ITSELF!

I mean, I've never heard of such a change. Nothing was added to or taken away from the aquarium.

I'm glad it's back in the blue....but isn't that change itself what stresses out fishy?blubcrub_zps9c57e7da.jpg

Edited by Orangebetsy

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Do you know your KH and GH of your tank and tap?

You never added the pH up?

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Do you know your KH and GH of your tank and tap?

You never added the pH up?

i do not know the KH or GH ---i just heard about that recently. i'll buy the kit.

i had not yet added anything at all to the water---i went to work nervous, and the water made the change on its own!

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Wow I've had a crash but it never went back up.. I've had to use a ton of crushed coral (mixed in my substrate) to keep the water at a stable level of 7.8 (pH of my tap). I hope you find out why it swung so weird!

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You could have had a bad pH reading, perhaps something contaminated a tube.

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You could have had a bad pH reading, perhaps something contaminated a tube.

That's what I was thinking. How could it go from 6.5 to 7.6 in a matter of hours without anything added to or taken away from the the tank . . . :idont

Check it again in a few hours and see what you get. :D

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You could have had a bad pH reading, perhaps something contaminated a tube.

That could be true too.. definatly keep an eye on the pH over the next few days. Maybe test morning and night? Let's see what the mods say though...

Edit: sniped! :wacko:

Edited by Mernany

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I don't think this applies to this particular case, but it's worth it to say that in very heavily planted tanks or in ponds, you can expect a change of pH from morning to night, as plants switch from consuming carbon dioxide (weak acid in solution) to producing it.

I do think that it just might be a case of false reading.

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we'll see! here's blub in his new mansion, havin at the bloodworms55blub_zps6e1824b0.jpg55blub_zps6e1824b0.jpg

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:rofl He looks so tiny in there! :rofl

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do you think i could have three other golds the same size? 2? whats a good type? he's a fantail.

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3 is comfortable, 4 is stretching it a bit when they get much much bigger :)

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do you think i could have three other golds the same size? 2? whats a good type? he's a fantail.

More fantails for sure! :rofl

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do you think i could have three other golds the same size? 2? whats a good type? he's a fantail.

More fantails for sure! :rofl

Says the fantail fan :rofl a cute oranda would be cute too! But I'm also a fan of fantails...

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woh---it was NOT a false test...somehow the pH is falling from ~7.6 to ~6.8 --just did a morning test and another one for confirmation. not sure what to do.

Edited by Orangebetsy

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Whats your KH in the tank and tap... whats the ph out of the tap?

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Orangebetsy,

I’ve also been having some difficulties with pH, i.e., comes out of the tap at 7.0 and after a brief time in my aquarium (a day) it’s 6.0 (or perhaps lower since I can’t measure below 6.0 with my API test kit). So I did some internet research and what follows is a combination of review of what I’ve found and my experience with this situation. I’m not completely finished with getting my water squared away but pH issues -- particularly pH drops --- seem to be a perpetual topic. Actions I've taken based on what’s described below seems to be working and my pH is headed in the right direction and I suspect the problem is going to be solved. The bottom line up front: get a KH/GH (Carbonate Hardness/General Hardness) test kit and do what's necessary to get those factors where they need to be first. Then worry about pH (if you even still have a pH problem after that).

The longer story:

As it turns out, it seems there’s a triumvirate of water properties that have to do with your pH and water hardness. They are:

  1. KH or “carbonate hardness”, which is a subset of
  2. GH or general hardness, and then finally;
  3. pH

…and probably in that order of precedence. Just my novice opinion, but if you understand how these interact/interrelate qualitatively, then you can get a sense of the “mechanics” that are going on with the chemistry. My laymen’s advice is to not go messing with pH at all (except in extreme circumstances) until you have a good handle on the other two. If yours goes in the same direction that mine is going, the pH will start to resolve itself.

This is fascinating stuff if you can find a chemist that speaks English enough to explain it. Solutions like water have all kinds of naturally occurring things in it besides water. It’s the water and these other things, minerals like calcium and magnesium, and things that the chemists call “salts” that give the water the properties of hardness. In this case, don’t just think “sea salt” type salt exclusively. Salts are a whole class of compounds. Of these “salts” there’s a particular class called “carbonates” that are of particular interest here and with respect to pH. The reason is that carbonates act like pH shock absorbers. If you hit a pH bump, it’s the presence of carbonates that will put things back to rights. Conversely, it’s the absence of carbonates that will allow your pH to swing about with every little change.

I was also wondering why my pH was dropping in the first place. Here are some things to bear in mind. As a perfectly natural phenomenon, pH in a freshwater ecosystem will fluctuate throughout the day for a number of reasons – foremost among them the action of plants which add oxygen during the day (with light) and carbon dioxide at night (without light). Also, the action of your good bacteria will drive acidity up/pH down. Nitrate, for instance, is an acid. This is all perfectly natural. What keeps healthy water from fluctuating wildly is the presence of these carbonates. These are “buffers” that contribute a property to the water called “alkalinity”. The prpoerty known as "alkalinity" is what buffers your water against pH changes. Now here’s the trick.

If you want your water to be healthy, then you want it to be “buffered” against dramatic pH swings. (A little swing is ok and of little or no concern – a couple of tenths of a point so long as the range stays consistent over time (measured in days).) Trying to manage pH to a particular range if your water isn’t properly buffered will make you and your fish crazy. So first, take steps to get your KH/carbonate hardness up to about 6 degrees of hardness. Now the flip side of this is that once it is in that range, changing the pH becomes more difficult – because that’s what having a KH in that range does. That being said, your pH will probably go up as you raise your KH into the proper range. At least mine is.

KH is a subset of GH and includes KH plus a lot of other beneficial minerals – minerals that are important to your goldie’s color for instance. When they say a particular fish likes a particular hardness, they’re talking about GH not KH. Goldies like a GH at about 6 dh. There are a number of products on the market that help adjust the buffering capacity, i.e., the alkalinity, of your water. I’ve been using Alkalinity Regulate to adjust overall GH (which helps raise KH). But my KH has been lagging a wee bit behind my GH. I’ve read that regular old Arm and Hammer Baking Soda will raise the KH without affecting GH, so I’m using that also. It seems to be working… I’d love to hear comments/other’s experiences or corrections.

I got most of my info for this from http://water.me.vccs...alkalinity.html which looks like it might have been put together for a General Chemistry 101 class, and an article called Practical Water Chemistry, What you Need to About Know and Why. I haven’t taken any chemistry myself for almost 30 years so I don’t get all of this stuff. But these are close enough that if you hang with it, you can get what you need in terms of “getting the mechanics” of what’s going on.

Good luck.

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i would put some crushed coral in a pocket made from pantyhose and place that in your filter(s) to keep the PH stable..

driftwood can cause PH to drop, but not fluctuate so much.

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i would put some crushed coral in a pocket made from pantyhose and place that in your filter(s) to keep the PH stable..

driftwood can cause PH to drop, but not fluctuate so much.

yup if you got ph problems dont add a log, bad idea :o

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