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finnfinnfriend

How does this sound for a setup?

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This is what I was thinking I would get as my future goldfish setup:

40 gallon breeder tank (I like Aqueon for tanks)

Hydro 4 sponge filter

Tetra whisper 60

Bubble wand

Zoomed "turtle pebbles" (basically small river stones-about 1")

Glass versa-top

A couple of large silk plants

A large ornament

Two fantail goldies ;)

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40 breeders are awesome tanks. Why do you want a sponge filter, may I ask? It looks like a pretty good setup to me overall. Keep us updated. :D

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Sounds like a good size tank for 2 fantails. :)

I wouldn't bother with the sponge filter. They aren't all that useful in a GF tank. Is the Tetra whisper you're talking about an air pump or a filter? For a 40 gallon tank you'll want a filter that filters at least 400 gallons per hour. A couple of brands I like are either Aqua Clear or Emperor. Both are hang on the back filters. It isn't a bad idea to get a couple of filters whose total gph output brings you to 400 gph or more. Then if one filter breaks or you do maintenance you have one filter running undisturbed.

Make sure any ornaments you get are not hollow.

You may also want to look into an Aqueon or Python water changer because you'll want to do 50-80% weekly water changes.

Are you planning on doing a fishless cycle?

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Oh yeah I want the python!

I just really like sponge filters XD they are excellent biofilters...Maybe I will put an aquaclear in there as well as the sponge filter...I also don't want the current to push them around too much XD

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I wouldn't bother with a sponge filter. They can be good for QT filters when a fish is weak or for young fry, but an HOB or canister will do a better job overall filtering the tank than a sponge filter and they won't take up valuable room inside the tank :) And ceramic biomedia added to an HOB or canister provides a better source of bio filtration than a sponge filter. As Lisa said, you want to have filtration that gives you 400 gallons per hour. Aqua clears are fantastic filters and you can get them relatively cheap on amazon. I would personally go for two AC70's on a 40 gallon (gives you a little extra filtration) but you could also do an AC70 and an AC 30 or 50.

As for the fish being pushed around by current, healthy fish should generally have no trouble handling normal filtration on a 40 gallon tank. Plus the aqua clear filters are really nice because you can control the amount of flow on them, so if the current appears to be too much for some reason you can dampen the output a bit.

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Thanks for all the advice everyone! I think what I will do, since I insist on having a sponge filter XP I will put an Aquaclear 110 on there in addition to it...

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How does that sound?

The 110 is a great filter and would be just fine for that tank :)

I personally prefer to have two filter's going so you can have one at each end of the tank to support better circulation and so that if one fails you have a back up to keep your cycle, which is why I suggested the two AC70's over the 110, but since you will be running the sponge filter in addition to the 110 it should be fine :)

are you doing a fishless cycle? or do you already have a tank that is cycled?

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I do have a cycled tank, but I don't think it will be enough to seed a goldfish tank...seeing as how it is a single betta tank XD

Please don't scold me too hard, but I was actually thinking I would do a fish-in cycle, just because I was going to buy the fish very small and have them in the 40 gallon from the beginning, as well as doing two extra water changes per week until the tank is cycled :)

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I do have a cycled tank, but I don't think it will be enough to seed a goldfish tank...seeing as how it is a single betta tank XD

Please don't scold me too hard, but I was actually thinking I would do a fish-in cycle, just because I was going to buy the fish very small and have them in the 40 gallon from the beginning, as well as doing two extra water changes per week until the tank is cycled :)

Fishless cycles are certainly easier on you and on the fish, but as long as you are diligent about testing the water daily and willing to do a water change as often as needed (even if that means daily) to keep the water safe for the fish I don't think a fish in cycle is a horrible thing ;) Is there any way you could sneak a little extra media (like a bag of biomedia) into the betta filter for a couple weeks? Then you could at least seed the goldfish filter with that to get the cycle going a little faster :)

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Please get an API Master Test Kit. It will make fish in cycling much less stressful for you and your fish. You will want to test very frequently (daily will be necessary at some points during the process). Keeping the water parameters safe during cycling is very important to the health of your fish.

Also,keep in mind that many fish come to you from the pet store with some sort of disease--flukes, etc. Cycling with fish makes it more difficult to deal with any symptoms that appear because it may be difficult to tell if the fish are stressed due to cycling (especially if you don't have a test kit) or some sort of disease . . .. And not all treatments can be carried out in a cycling tank.

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I do have a test kit and would be willing to do daily water changes, however, if I change my mind about it before I get the fish, I may do the pure ammonia cycle...my local dollar store carries half gallons of pure ammonia!

I am currently running only a sponge filter in betta tank, but maybe I could squeeze some extra media into the inside of it a few weeks before getting the gold fish so that I can seed the goldfish tank without having to cut a piece off the sponge filter...

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So...when you say not to use hollow ornaments, you mean the kind that are hollow just for the purpose of being lighter, right? Like, a large cave would be fine, right?

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So...when you say not to use hollow ornaments, you mean the kind that are hollow just for the purpose of being lighter, right? Like, a large cave would be fine, right?

Any hollow ornaments will cause issues, as there is no water current inside them and they also trap air. Unless it's got holes to allow the escape of air through the top or is completely solid, I wouldn't use it at all in my goldfish tank. I also don't see much need for a cave, when young goldfish grow large quickly and won't be able to use it very long. All of the goldfish I see prefer plants to caves as hiding places, if you'd like an alternative. :)

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Here is a quick article on hollow ornaments http://www.kokosgoldfish.invisionzone.com/forum/index.php?/page/index.html/_/frequently-asked-goldfish-questions/hollow-ornaments-r439

If you have an ornament you like there are ways to make them safe such as adding an airstone inside or sealing them up. As Chelsea said though, goldfish are not a fish that need a cave, and caves can actually become an issue as goldfish grow - they have a tendency to try to fit where they don't belong :P

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Well what I had in mind was a completely solid cave...

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Well what I had in mind was a completely solid cave...

I don't think I catch your drift. Do you have photos?

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Yeah lemme go find the link...sorry it's kind of hard to explain lol...anyway brb...

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I don't think any of those would be considered safe. They are hollow ornaments. None have holes in the top for gas release, and none of them will lend to a current running through. They wouldn't be good in a goldfish tank.

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Well then why would something like that be okay in a betta tank, but it's dangerous in a goldfish tank?

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I personally wouldn't put it in any tank. Trapped air is a real threat to any fish that swims into it. I wouldn't even put those in a cichlid tank. Fish that need caves, like cichlids, would do best with a hand-built series of caves using large flat stones, which have no concave parts that can trap air inside. It's unfortunate that these are sold as 'okay' for the tank environment, but in reality they are very toxic. It's also pertinent to remember that not all fish have the same needs, and therefore need an environment to suit their personal needs.

Edited by ChelseaM

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Aren't you supposed to let the air out by turning upside down under water anyway?

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That still doesn't mean some will not still be caught, or deposited by other means like stray bubbles. Also, without current you will wind up with stale water inside the cave. Stale water is equally as dangerous and can harbor similar 'bad bacteria' to air pockets. Hollow ornaments and caves like that really are all around dangerous things to be putting in a tank, I assure you.

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Well I don't know about goldfish, but betta experts and novices alike that I know use aquarium cave with no problems, and one of the most knowledgeable people I know says that you don't even have to have water movement at all in a betta tank...

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