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Ronnie_1990

Water has turned misty, Fish sucking air, deflated backside....

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  • Test Results for the Following:
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  • * How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change? 2 Days
  • * Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running? 6 Gals UK, 2 Days
  • * How many fish in the tank and their size? 2 , small goldfish.
  • * What do you feed your fish and how often? Once per day
  • * Any new fish added to the tank? N/A
  • * Any medications added to the tank? Yes, Treatment for tap water.
  • * List previous issues experienced (dropsy, SBD, etc.) N/A
  • * Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? No
  • * Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.? Yes

Hi Everyone, My first post. Just looking for some advice. I brought a new Fish tank four days ago, filled the tank with tap water (UK) and treated it with chemicals provided with the tank. I introduced two Fantail goldfish. They were fine for the first day, but today they have spent around three hours at the top of the tank sucking in air. The water also turned very misty quite quickly. I changed 40% of the water, and they began to swim around again normally.

I am not sure what to do next, I am going to leave it and see what happens.

One of the fish's backside also looks deflated, if that makes sense.

Please if any one could offer advice I would appreciate it.

Many Thanks.

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Hello and welcome to Koko's! :)

Your tank has begun to cycle. First off, it is unfortunately too small for even one goldfish. Each goldfish requires a bare minimum of about 40 liters, so you would need an 80 liter tank at the very least. If 100liter or bigger, that would be even better.

As for what to do during cycling, this article (scroll down where it mentions cycling with goldfish) is extremely helpful :)

http://www.kokosgoldfish.com/cycle.html

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Well your tank is overstocked. Goldfish need a lot of space as they can get large. You need at least a 30 gallon tank.

We also need to know your tank parameters. Without knowing them, we can only suggest water changes. I would assume that your fish are being affected by the cycling tank. Can you buy a drop test kit? If not, try to get a local fish store to test it for you.

Until then, try to do daily water changes of 90%.

Sent from my SCH-I535

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Excellent advice above :) The sooner you can get them into a larger container the better.

I assume you do not have a filter on the 6 gallon since you did not list one? A filter is essential. When you get a larger tank you will also want to look for a filter that runs 10x the tank volume in liters per hour (so for a 100 liter tank your filter should run 1,000 liters per hour).

can you get a picture or video of the deflated backside?

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Hi Ronnie...welcome to the site :welcome

Well your tank is overstocked. Goldfish need a lot of space as they can get large. You need at least a 30 gallon tank.

Until then, try to do daily water changes of 90%.

Sent from my SCH-I535

Be careful....I once advised a new member regarding a water change, and received the following advice from a more experienced member. :oops:

Remove at least 50% of the water and monitor the fishes behaviour. The deeper your goldfish tank, the more pressure created, and his weight/pressure greatly affects goldfish suffering from Nitrate or bacterial poisoning. If he appears happier in the lowered water level, change about 20% of the water remaining every two hours or so. Be sure to treat the fresh water with suitable additive to remove chlorine and chloramines etc....

Could we please refrain from advising to do large water changes when we are unaware of both the tank and tap pH as this could cause further issues if there is a large difference. :)

May be worth obtaining those pH readings first eh?

Good luck with your efforts.....keep your powder dry!! :thumb:

Edited by Phillyn17

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My local branded pet store informed me the tank would be fine for the two fish, Unfortunately I do not have space for a bigger tank. sizes are: 38x30x 33.cm. I am in a bit of a pickle now.

I will have to leave the fish in the tank for now, and try and find someone who can take them. I may try and get a refund but I don't really want to give the fish back as I have heard stories that they just put them in bags and then leave the bags in the bin.

I will change the water daily until I can sort them. Thanks for the advice everyone.

Sorry I do have a filter.

Edited by Ronnie_1990

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Hi Ronnie...welcome to the site

Well your tank is overstocked. Goldfish need a lot of space as they can get large. You need at least a 30 gallon tank.

Until then, try to do daily water changes of 90%.

Sent from my SCH-I535

Be careful....I once advised a new member regarding a water change, and received the following advice from a more experienced member.

Remove at least 50% of the water and monitor the fishes behaviour. The deeper your goldfish tank, the more pressure created, and his weight/pressure greatly affects goldfish suffering from Nitrate or bacterial poisoning. If he appears happier in the lowered water level, change about 20% of the water remaining every two hours or so. Be sure to treat the fresh water with suitable additive to remove chlorine and chloramines etc....

Could we please refrain from advising to do large water changes when we are unaware of both the tank and tap pH as this could cause further issues if there is a large difference.

May be worth obtaining those pH readings first eh?

Good luck with your efforts.....keep your powder dry!!

Doing them daily should result in a minimal ph difference. Plus, a ph difference is not as threatening as ammonia and nitrites.

And I am plenty experienced. Thank you.

Sent from my SCH-I535

Edited by ashlee18

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Could you keep them inside a larger food safe storage tub until you are able to upgrade to a proper sized tank? :) Many people keep goldfish in these tubs temporarily or even long term. You can store it on the floor in a corner where it is not so much in the way. A larger home will significantly up their chances of survival, since the larger the water volume, the more diluted the toxins produced by the fish get. :)

I know this can be a tricky situation for many new goldfish owners (I was there myself) when you suddenly are confronted with the fact that the pet store people really don't know anything about goldfish keeping. Of course it does not help that many big companies sell these small 5g goldfish aquarium kits, although these are certainly not appropriate for goldfish. But of course, the companies are only interested in making a quick buck out of customers :(

Either way, let us know how it goes, and we're always here for info and advise :)

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My local branded pet store informed me the tank would be fine for the two fish, Unfortunately I do not have space for a bigger tank. sizes are: 38x30x 33.cm. I am in a bit of a pickle now.

I will have to leave the fish in the tank for now, and try and find someone who can take them. I may try and get a refund but I don't really want to give the fish back as I have heard stories that they just put them in bags and then leave the bags in the bin.

I will change the water daily until I can sort them. Thanks for the advice everyone.

Sorry I do have a filter.

Could you use something like a large plastic storage bin that you could just put on the floor until you can rehome them?

Unfortunately there is not good information out there about proper goldfish care. The vast majority of pet store employees are unfortunately not educated regarding goldfish and just see them as replaceable beginner pets. However, goldfish can grow very larger (8-14 inches) and they produce a lot of waste. In a small tank like this that is not cycled, toxins build up very fast and can quickly make the fish sick and potentially kill them.

EDIT: posted at the same time as Fang ;)

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Hi Ronnie...welcome to the site

Well your tank is overstocked. Goldfish need a lot of space as they can get large. You need at least a 30 gallon tank.

Until then, try to do daily water changes of 90%.

Sent from my SCH-I535

Be careful....I once advised a new member regarding a water change, and received the following advice from a more experienced member.

Remove at least 50% of the water and monitor the fishes behaviour. The deeper your goldfish tank, the more pressure created, and his weight/pressure greatly affects goldfish suffering from Nitrate or bacterial poisoning. If he appears happier in the lowered water level, change about 20% of the water remaining every two hours or so. Be sure to treat the fresh water with suitable additive to remove chlorine and chloramines etc....

Could we please refrain from advising to do large water changes when we are unaware of both the tank and tap pH as this could cause further issues if there is a large difference.

May be worth obtaining those pH readings first eh?

Good luck with your efforts.....keep your powder dry!!

Doing them daily should result in a minimal ph difference. Plus, a ph difference is not as threatening as ammonia and nitrites.

And I am plenty experienced. Thank you.

Sent from my SCH-I535

Sorry ashlee...I think you misunderstood my wording. I meant that the member who advised ME was more experienced than I was.

I did not comment on your plenty experience.....

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Hi everyone, Thanks for the advice. I have found a large garden tank they can go into, but there are also giant goldfish in there as well, not sure what the correct name is for these fish. Do you think they would be safe?

I have added a video below of the current tank.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOQE4QZvn1Q&feature=youtu.be

Has something changed in the last few years with tap water? I had fish as a child in a similar sized tank, and used to clear the tank out every week with "fresh" tap water. They lasted for over five years, and the water would always stay clear. They only died when I went on holiday one year and the food cube did not work. :rip:

Edited by Ronnie_1990

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Your fish appear to be suffering from a lack of oxygen. The tank is tall with a rather small surface area, which limits oxygen somewhat, but still this seems strange. What are "the chemicals that came with the tank?" They must be labeled.

Without a test kit, we can't tell if there is something wrong with the tap water, but it's possible. How big are the "giant goldfish?" You may be talking about koi, They don't attack goldfish, but they are so big that overcrowding and thus fouling the water can occur in even a large pond,

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I wonder if your tank has crashed, and that cloudiness is from the ammonia.

I really think you need to get your water tested, either by getting a drop test kit, or ask the LFS to check for you. Make sure to check both tap and tank water.

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Your fish appear to be suffering from a lack of oxygen. The tank is tall with a rather small surface area, which limits oxygen somewhat, but still this seems strange. What are "the chemicals that came with the tank?" They must be labeled.

Without a test kit, we can't tell if there is something wrong with the tap water, but it's possible. How big are the "giant goldfish?" You may be talking about koi, They don't attack goldfish, but they are so big that overcrowding and thus fouling the water can occur in even a large pond,

Hi, The chemicals are:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0037XVLZ0/?tag=hydra0b-21&hvadid=9550942509&ref=asc_df_B0037XVLZ0

Thanks for the info they are koi in the garden tank. It is very big (You could fit around 12 people in it as a hot tub) so I think adding to small fish should be fine.

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Your fish appear to be suffering from a lack of oxygen. The tank is tall with a rather small surface area, which limits oxygen somewhat, but still this seems strange. What are "the chemicals that came with the tank?" They must be labeled.

Without a test kit, we can't tell if there is something wrong with the tap water, but it's possible. How big are the "giant goldfish?" You may be talking about koi, They don't attack goldfish, but they are so big that overcrowding and thus fouling the water can occur in even a large pond,

Hi, The chemicals are:

http://www.amazon.co...c_df_B0037XVLZ0

Thanks for the info they are koi in the garden tank. It is very big (You could fit around 12 people in it as a hot tub) so I think adding to small fish should be fine.

I have changed the water again (80%) tonight and they are fine again.

Edited by Ronnie_1990

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Hi, this is my first post.

Right, firstly your tanks incredibly small for goldfish. I work on fancy goldfish having 120l for the first and then 40l there after for each subsequent fancy. Single tail goldfish you can effectively double that.

Goldfish grow to be big big fish, and these are bare minimum. Mature specimens may require far more.

Without any water test kit, I can tell you almost unequivocally that your fish are at the top gasping for air. Not because the gas exchange is poor in a taller than wide tank (although this is true), but because ammonia is building up in the tank. Are you familiar with the nitrogen cycle and cycling of aquariums? Fish produce ammonia from waste as well as respiration. In the way we breathe out carbon dioxide, fish effectively breathe out ammonia. The first stage of the nitrogen cycle uses bacteria such as nitrosomonas to oxidise ammonia nh4 into nitrite no2. The good news is, the ammonia will be gone. The bad news is no2 is just as deadly, if not more so than ammonia. Fortunately nitrobacter will further oxidise this into nitrate no3. No3 is relatively harmless, however, it needs to be kept in check - either through heavy planting and using it as fertiliser for your plants. Unfortunately, goldfish are notorious plant lovers so this is out of the question. The other way is through frequent partial water changes.

Now these bacteria (as well as other stuff that is beyond the realms of this post) grow in well oxygenated places, in the case of an aquarium, the filter (it does grow elsewhere in the tank, but the vast vast majority will be on your filter sponges and other media.) another unfortunate thing is that these take time to multiply into sufficient amounts to convert the toxins, which are constantly building.

At this point in time, it is imperative that you are making probably twice daily 90% water changes to keep these in check. (This is not a lot of work given your small volume, believe me. i perform twice weekly 50% changes in which i manually carry half a ton of water!) You will be performing a fish in cycle ( which in today's day and age there is just no need). This not only takes far far longer than a fishless cycle ( you will be effectively starving your filter of ammonia to keep your fish alive), but you are endangering the lives of the fish that are in your care.

My suggestion to you would be to return the fish to where you got them, and if you intend on keeping goldfish, proceed to fishlessly cycle are suitably large aquarium for these big, messy fish.

Finally, please take time to read the following two pages. They are a brilliant eye opener to these marvellous creatures.

[Links deleted by DNAlex]

James.EDIT - links deleted - apologies I am new round here and may make a few errors. Please accept my apologies.DNAlex - please take time to read the links I posted if possible.

Edited by James Ludlow

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Hi James,

Welcome to the forum. :)

Please acquaint yourself work our forum rules. We do not add links to other forums here.

Thanks.

Also, while of course your suggestions for stocking are good, it does not have to be so drastic. It does not make Anh sense for fancies to require less water than single tails, either. Please read around the forum, to get a better idea why. Thanks.

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Hi, this is my first post.

Right, firstly your tanks incredibly small for goldfish. I work on fancy goldfish having 120l for the first and then 40l there after for each subsequent fancy. Single tail goldfish you can effectively double that.

Goldfish grow to be big big fish, and these are bare minimum. Mature specimens may require far more.

Without any water test kit, I can tell you almost unequivocally that your fish are at the top gasping for air. Not because the gas exchange is poor in a taller than wide tank (although this is true), but because ammonia is building up in the tank. Are you familiar with the nitrogen cycle and cycling of aquariums? Fish produce ammonia from waste as well as respiration. In the way we breathe out carbon dioxide, fish effectively breathe out ammonia. The first stage of the nitrogen cycle uses bacteria such as nitrosomonas to oxidise ammonia nh4 into nitrite no2. The good news is, the ammonia will be gone. The bad news is no2 is just as deadly, if not more so than ammonia. Fortunately nitrobacter will further oxidise this into nitrate no3. No3 is relatively harmless, however, it needs to be kept in check - either through heavy planting and using it as fertiliser for your plants. Unfortunately, goldfish are notorious plant lovers so this is out of the question. The other way is through frequent partial water changes.

Now these bacteria (as well as other stuff that is beyond the realms of this post) grow in well oxygenated places, in the case of an aquarium, the filter (it does grow elsewhere in the tank, but the vast vast majority will be on your filter sponges and other media.) another unfortunate thing is that these take time to multiply into sufficient amounts to convert the toxins, which are constantly building.

At this point in time, it is imperative that you are making probably twice daily 90% water changes to keep these in check. (This is not a lot of work given your small volume, believe me. i perform twice weekly 50% changes in which i manually carry half a ton of water!) You will be performing a fish in cycle ( which in today's day and age there is just no need). This not only takes far far longer than a fishless cycle ( you will be effectively starving your filter of ammonia to keep your fish alive), but you are endangering the lives of the fish that are in your care.

My suggestion to you would be to return the fish to where you got them, and if you intend on keeping goldfish, proceed to fishlessly cycle are suitably large aquarium for these big, messy fish.

Finally, please take time to read the following two pages. They are a brilliant eye opener to these marvellous creatures.

[Links deleted by DNAlex]

James.EDIT - links deleted - apologies I am new round here and may make a few errors. Please accept my apologies.DNAlex - please take time to read the links I posted if possible.

Thank-You James for your long and detailed post. I am going to change the water everyday (80%) until I can find somewhere for them, and then get some very small tropical fish, which is what the tank is apparently designed for. Although I will check back here before I buy any.

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Hi James,

Welcome to the forum.

Please acquaint yourself work our forum rules. We do not add links to other forums here.

Thanks.

Also, while of course your suggestions for stocking are good, it does not have to be so drastic. It does not make Anh sense for fancies to require less water than single tails, either. Please read around the forum, to get a better idea why. Thanks.

As in edited post - my apologies.

I will take on board all info and assess/judge accordingly lol.

I was of course, only trying to be of help. I have no intention of treading on anybody's toes.

James

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You weren't treading on anyone's toes.

Your input is welcome. :)

I agreed with you that the problem is most likely from ammonia.

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Hi everyone, I have rehoused the fish to a giant pond with other fish. Its outside. I went back a few hours after to check on them but I could not see either of the two, hope they have not been eaten. There are other fish in there slightly bigger than them, and also a couple of calf fish.

Now I have a tank (link below) with no fish in, and a load of mucky horrible looking water.

http://www.seapets.co.uk/products/aquarium-supplies/aquariums/aqua-one/aqua-one-aquastart-aquariums/aqua-one-aquarium-aquastart-320-black-28l.html

Can anyone suggest which fish this tank would be suitable for? (if any) The tank is designed for tropical fish so I would be happy to add a heater and get some small tropical fish.

Also, What should I do about the water, Should I restart the tank/ clean the filters, then set up a heater and refill it with fresh water. I will then wait 3 days before I add anything?

Please if anyone offer any advice I would greatly appreciate it, I don't want to buy another lot of fish and end up in the same situation, not due to money, but I would have nowhere to put them.

Many Thanks.

Edited by Ronnie_1990

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I can tell you that waiting three days is a very short amount of time before adding in new fish. Perhaps clean the tank, filters and such. Spend a bit of time reading up on whatever tropicals would be suitable for your tank while doing a fishless cycle of your tank. There is a bunch of information available to you on this site about how to successfully complete a fishless cycle. This will allow your tank to be super prepared for new fish and allow you time to know what you're jumping into. This is what I would do if I could start over. I did a few tanks worth of cycling with fish in and it led to some major problems that are still lingering today. Food for thought =)

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It does not make Anh sense for fancies to require less water than single tails, either.

Whilst a fancy goldfish will theoretically obtain the same mass, and thus requiring the same volume of water, a single tailed variety is more streamlined and a faster and more active swimmer, and thus requiring a larger space.

As the majority of aquarists will buy an off the shelf tank, generally a larger space will dictate a greater volume of water. Yes, a 4ftx4ftx1ft tank can be made and bought, a 4ftx2ftx2ft is by far more common. Which a largish (as a percentage) amount of water more than a 3x2x2

So whilst, my post was technically incorrect with regards to volume, as a rule of thumb, greater volume equates to greater space, which ultimately commons do require over fancys.

James

Edited by James Ludlow

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Hi everyone, I have rehoused the fish to a giant pond with other fish. Its outside. I went back a few hours after to check on them but I could not see either of the two, hope they have not been eaten. There are other fish in there slightly bigger than them, and also a couple of calf fish.

Now I have a tank (link below) with no fish in, and a load of mucky horrible looking water.

http://www.seapets.c...-black-28l.html

Can anyone suggest which fish this tank would be suitable for? (if any) The tank is designed for tropical fish so I would be happy to add a heater and get some small tropical fish.

Also, What should I do about the water, Should I restart the tank/ clean the filters, then set up a heater and refill it with fresh water. I will then wait 3 days before I add anything?

Please if anyone offer any advice I would greatly appreciate it, I don't want to buy another lot of fish and end up in the same situation, not due to money, but I would have nowhere to put them.

Many Thanks.

As burningivy said above, you will want to do a fishless cycle on the tank before adding any fish. A full cycle can take anywhere between 1-3 months. Here are a couple links on cycling you should look at. If you have any questions about it please don't hesitate to ask, we'd be happy to walk you through the process.

http://www.kokosgoldfish.invisionzone.com/forum/index.php?/topic/103581-the-aquarium-nitrogen-cycle-illustrated-video/

http://www.kokosgoldfish.com/FishlessCycle.html

In terms of what you can keep in the tank, it is 28L which is about 7 us gallons, so your options are relatively limited. My tropical knowledge is not good so I cannot advise much farther than saying a betta and a couple snails would be very happy in that tank :) If you want more suggestions, you should start a new thread in the tropicals section, you should get more replies to that specific question there :)

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A betta would be cool. I saw a lovely one today that was peacock colours! It was beautiful :wub:

Apple snails are cool to. You can get different colours

Edited by orandafan1981

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