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redgold54

does Prime interfere with tank cycle?

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Well if you're cycling the tank Prime eliminates ammonia which you need to cycle a tank so I'd say yes. However I'm not 100% sure so perhaps someone more experienced in this respect would be able to input. I never dose with prime while cycling because there aren't any fish in the tank to have to make the water safe for :P

Edited by Pearlscaleperfect

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not at all.. almost every member uses it here. it has many benefits to fishkeeping. here is a Seachem write up on their product Prime: http://www.seachem.c...ages/Prime.html

hmm. But if Prime removes ammonia, won't it remove the ammonia I add to the tank to start or maintain the cycle?

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Well Prime eliminates ammonia which you need to cycle a tank so I'd say yes. However I'm not 100% sure so perhaps someone more experienced in this respect would be able to input. I never dose with prime while cycling because there aren't any fish in the tank to have to make the water safe for :P

it doesn't eliminate the ammonia it turns it into a form of ammonia that is still useable by the biological filter, but not harmful to the fish :) This is why prime is recommended while cycling often

It is perfectly fine to use :)

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Well if you're cycling the tank Prime eliminates ammonia which you need to cycle a tank so I'd say yes. However I'm not 100% sure so perhaps someone more experienced in this respect would be able to input. I never dose with prime while cycling because there aren't any fish in the tank to have to make the water safe for :P

Prime actually does not eliminate ammonia, but converts it into a non toxic form that can still be consumed by the BBs :)

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That's what I thought but I wasn't sure :rofl I don't remember the last time I had to cycle a tank, I normally just seed and make sure the seed takes. I think the last time I cycled a tank was 09? jeez!

Edited by Pearlscaleperfect

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Prime shouldnt be used while doing a fishless cycle... :doh11::wall Nor Amquel it turns it into a safe ammonia which the nitrites cant consume.... I have been trying to get everyone to understand this.... All you need is a Dechlorinator.... not something that takes out the ammonia, nitrites or nitrates. This defeats the porpoise of this ammonia added to the tank... I feel like Im beating my head against the wall..

http://www.seachem.com/support/forums/showthread.php?t=4067

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That's interesting Koko. I will say though that I have done a few fishless cycles, and I always used Prime during them. I never had a problem getting the fishless cycle going while using Prime. My understanding is that Prime turns the ammonia into a less toxic form that the good bacteria can still consume and turn into nitrites. Please tell me if I'm wrong though!

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I did my fishless cycle with prime as well :idont

wouldn't this create an issue with our cycles now using prime if this was the case? I don't understand.

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But see if you want the ammonia to jump start a tank you need to keep it 100% pure at first... Once the nitrites have started in on the ammonia then it will be safe to use. I have seen a few tanks get stuck with the prime in there or the amquel.... Just saying.. If its stuck dont use it let the ammonia be ammonia why add it when you dont really need it :twocents

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Alright, I am really stuck on this topic :P Koko, I am not seeing where in the link you posted it says that Prime will interfere with the cycle, I just see it saying that you don't need to use it because you don't have to worry about ammonia/nitrite build up with a fishless cycle.

What about the info that alex got from the seachem reps awhile ago (here: http://www.kokosgoldfish.invisionzone.com/forum/index.php?/page/index.html/_/water-quality-articles/why-seachem-prime-detoxifies-ammonia-but-cannot-r190 )

Quote:

1. Depending on the dosage added, Prime will have degraded anywhere between 24-48 hours after adding to the tank.

2. Prime binds to free ammonia and converts the ammonia into an imidium salt. This process is irreversible in the sense that you can't add another chemical to the tank to release the free ammonia from Prime. This imidium salt is still available to the biological filter to be consumed and converted into nitrite.

3. As long as Prime is still active in the tank, the ammonia is non-toxic. However, as Prime degrades (24-48 hours), it will release the ammonia back to its free (toxic) form.

I have also emailed seachem asking specifically whether prime would interfere with a fishless cycle. I hope I am not coming off as argumentative, I just want to understand, and if I am wrong I want a definitive answer why so that I understand, because my understanding now is that the ammonia is still available to the cycle and can still be consumed by the BBs, it is just in a different form, and even then, in two days it will be back to the regular form and since we do water changes so rarely in a fishless cycle I just don't understand how it would impact things, but I think it is obviously really important to know since so many of us use and recommend prime :) (I also hate to have to recommend two different water conditioners for people, one for when you cycle, and one for when you get fish)

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I understand where you're coming from Tithra, I think it's always good to fully understand the things that we recommend. :) I'd be interested to hear the response you get back from Seachem.

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What Im trying to say, is why use something that changes the ammonia when you want the ammonia to kick start the tank....Im think with some of the ammonia that we are using now its causing the tanks to stall.... Thats what Im trying to get a crossed. Im mean if you want the ammonia to start the cycle why are we changing to something else, sometimes stalling the tank..

"1. There is really no need to use Prime during a fishless cycle since you will not need to worry about free ammonia or nitrite levels. Once fish have been added, I do recommend dosing Prime every other day when experiencing ammonia or nitrite levels."

This is what I have been trying to say. :)

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Prime will not hurt your cycle, because it's the same reason why we can add Prime during a fish-in cycle or a cycle bump to prevent ammonia toxicity while keeping ammonia in a form that is still consumable by beneficial bacteria.

You do have a good point, Koko, in the sense that Prime isn't really necessary when you first start the cycle because chlorine will dissipate in 24 hours anyway.

However, if you have chloramines, you HAVE to have Prime, or the persisting chloramines will kill your bacteria.

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I give up and failed... Im out!

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My last comment on this... you know its like you do you add MSG to a food that tastes good. Why would you want to convert ammonia into something else at the beginning of a cycle...all you need is to get a dechlorinator... Thats what Im trying to get a crossed... I just dont under stand.. I guess.

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Koko,

I don't disagree with you, and I think we are all on the same page. Prime isn't necessary to use in a fishless cycle, and when you are using water changes during this time, you certainly can use a regular dechlorinator.

The point you are making is a valid, and that's something that's worth asking the Seachem people: does Prime converted ammonia get consumed at the same rate and efficiency as unconverted ammonia.

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Here is the reply I got from Seachem.... I was hoping for a little more explanation than they provided :rolleyes:

"Thanks for the email. Yes, it is perfectly acceptable to use Prime during a fishless cycle, as the ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate will still be 100% available for the beneficial bacteria to consume."

It's certainly not necessary to use prime during a fishless cycle and there could definitely be something we don't know about how it effects the BB's or how well the ammonia is consumed when it is converted vs. typically, I have no idea the extent of the research seachem has done, who knows :idont

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