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CelesteGB

Ryukin sick+top floating+blood in poop

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  • * Ammonia Level 0
  • * Nitrite Level 0
  • * Nitrate level
  • * Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) 8.0
  • * Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)
    Other Required Info:
  • * Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops?API drops
  • * Water temperature? 76
  • * Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running? 47 and 2 years
  • * What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)?
  • * How often do you change the water and how much? Once a week and 50%
  • * How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change?6 days and 50%

  • * How many fish in the tank and their size? 4 fish...4 inches, 3.5inches, and two 2.5 inches
  • * What kind of water additives or conditioners? Prime
  • * What do you feed your fish and how often? Once a day, gel, Hikari, beans
  • * Any new fish added to the tank? No
  • * Any medications added to the tank? No
  • * List previous issues experienced (dropsy, SBD, etc.) Ich outbreak from a month ago
  • * List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank. Please include salt, Prazi, PP, etc and the approximate time and duration of treatment.
  • * Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? Light blood in poop
  • * Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.? Hovering at the top.

Hey all,

Daphne, my Ryukin, started hovering near the top and gasping a bit. This morning she ate normally and just a few minutes ago I tried feeding her as a test but she wouldn't eat. While I tested the water, I put her in a breeder bin and she pooped, which I noticed had a small amount of blood in it. One month ago the tank got ich (along with all the rest) and that all cleared up so I'm wondering if she has some secondary infection now. I did attempt to feel her stomach and it felt firm from what I could tell. She's a confirmed female :)

Any ideas on how to help her? I do have a QT tank running and can move her after I get advice. I've had her for two years and would like to keep her around a bit longer :)

Celeste

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Well, I think it's too late, she's floating on her side. I think catching and feeling her stomach pushed her over the edge :(

Yeah, she died :cry1 Anyone want to suggest what may have happened? Whatever it was, it was quick. No visible marks, only the rapid breathing around lunch...

Edited by MomofMany

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What are your nitrates at?

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:( I'm so sorry you lost her.

I know this has happened to a couple of your fish in the past (the bloody stool). Has the pleco that got a hold of Samwise been taken out of the tank? I know that Trinket had thought camallanus worms may have been the issue with Widget, I'm wondering if you ended up treating widget with jungle AP as Trinket suggested in that thread? Is it possible that this bloody poo was actually a camallanus worm?

Had you treated with epsom any time recently by chance?

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Daphne was in a different tank from Widget and yes, I moved the pleco's out that day that Samwise had the Incident. I never did treat for those worms. I don't even remember the suggestion...probably because I was sidetracked. Oh, I think I recall she had stopped eating anyway.

No, I haven't put in any epsom salts.

Would the worms' effects come on this suddenly? I never saw it coming!

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Here is the link with pics that Trinket posted if you want to take a look and see if it looks anything like what you saw http://www.kokosgoldfish.invisionzone.com/forum/index.php?/topic/96180-widget-blood-in-poop-now/

I have no idea if this is what was affecting her, but it's worth a look :)

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No, this was like normal poop with a bit of blood on one side...not full internal hemorrhaging :(

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I'm sorry, Celeste :(

By the time that there blood in the poop, it is almost always too late. Helen & I have had long discussions on what you could cause goldfish to bleed out, or to have internal hemorrhages like this, and one of the things that we conclude is that the fish is probably full of of worms, of a type related to camallanus. The fish will not show much, if any symptoms, until this very rapid decline, likely to be when there are more worms attacking the intestinal lining.

I think that to be safe, you may want to treat your tank with some sort de-worming/anti-internal parasite regimen. As tithra pointed out, I think this is the second fish of your crew with this issue, right?

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Widget had a bacterial cyst that erupted though and was in a different tank (although it could have spread). That wouldn't be related to worms would it? If you suspect worms, what would I treat the tank with? I've never dewormed before...Prazi?

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oh celeste! i am sooooo sorry hun :( . yes, Alex and i have had huge discussions on this and we've created a home style JungleAP that helped me to rid this worm from my fish. it is a strong drug and the entire community of fish will need to be treated.

i ask, do you have or can you get your hands on a microscope? scoping poop will tell us if there are internal parasites such as the type of worms that are very well known to cause anaemia in fish.

also, head to my "microscope video page" in the stakos corner in the subscribers section. there are 10 vids direct from microscope.. you will see the worms i speak of in action so that you can compare if you manage to secure a microscope for use.

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Sorry you lost her:(

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I'm not sure if I can get access to a microscope :( If I can't (and we may run out of time?), what is the treatment you propose? Why do you suspect worms or internal parasites over some internal bacterial infection? Could internal bleeding be caused by a bacterial infection? Also, do you think this could be a secondary result of the ich outbreak from a month ago? I guess it's possible one of the new fish brought worms or parasites in along with the ich :(

I'm asking all the questions because I'd like to learn! (and be even more paranoid of disasters waiting to strike hehe)

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It's very likely there is a bacterial component to this, but it's secondary to the worm infestation, which would cause perforations in the digestive tract. If you try to deal with the bacterial infections, you haven't gotten rid of the problem, and it will come back again. We are speaking from experience of having dealt with very similar issues in the past.

You have to deal with the offending agents first, so an antiparasite/deworming is called for. It's like dealing with a leak. If you just focus on draining the water, you're just fixing the symptom, not the cause.

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Ok, how do I treat an internal worm infestation? You and stakos mentioned that special Jungle AP mixture...?

Edited by MomofMany

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No, Prazi alone won't cut it. It's one of three active ingredients. Do you have any Jungle AP?

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I would have to order it. I checked all the stores around here and can't find it. I can't even find it online in Canada :( I have MM's and that's it

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I'm afraid that won't work very well.

These are the separate ingredients you will need:

- powder or tablet Prazi

- powder or tablet Metronidazole

- fenbendazole (Safeguard dewormer) or levamisole (another de-wormer), or flubendazole (de-wormer)

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Ok, I couldn't find any of those dewormers specifically but I did find some mebendazole tablets. I had my phone and checked and it cures the same type of worms that febendazole does. I was trying to search on my phone but it was difficult to find if it is the equivalent of febendazole. I hope that it will do the trick! If not, I'll have to call around town and see who has the other or I can wait until Tuesday when our vet opens (tomorrow is a holiday).

Please tell me it will work :bat: (Koko needs a beg emote ;))

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Can you not get Panacur? Mebendazole is probably OK, but I have no direct experience with it.

This is the beg emoticon. We have it. :please

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Yes, I know of the article, and as you saw, they are not exactly the same.

In any case, it was either fenbendazole, flubendazole, or levamisole. Surely one of these de-wormers are available in Canada? Safeguard is sold without prescription here, and flubendazole is in the UK. Surprisingly, levamisole is in Australia.

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I have to have a prescription and today is a holiday. I'll call my vet tomorrow. Is there anything I can do in the meantime?

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I don't think that this is an emergency situation where treatment has to be started today. It does need to get underway soon, but we have time to gather things and do it right :)

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I'm trying to find information on worms in general and it seems fish have them naturally but only illness and a weakened immune system can turn them deadly. Is this correct? What other info can I find?

Thanks!

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I'm not sure that all fish would have worms naturally. That's like saying that all humans have worms naturally.

Moreover, not all worms are equal...there are so many different types, and some are deadlier than others. If you would like to look up for more info, try looking up Rhabdochona worms, camallanus worms, procamallanus worms, and paracamallanus worms. All of these have the potential to perforate intestinal linings when their numbers are sufficiently high.

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