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lindsey elliott

Bottom Sitting

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    Test Results for the Following:
  • * Ammonia Level=0
  • * Nitrite Level=0
  • * Nitrate level=5.0
  • * Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)=7.6
  • * Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)=7.8
    Other Required Info:
  • * Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops?API Drops
  • * Water temperature?
  • * Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running?55 gal 9 months
  • * What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)?aquaclear 110, and 55
  • * How often do you change the water and how much?twice a week 50%
  • * How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change?3 days

  • * How many fish in the tank and their size?5 medium size
  • * What kind of water additives or conditioners?prime
  • * What do you feed your fish and how often?omega 1, progold. twice a day
  • * Any new fish added to the tank?no
  • * Any medications added to the tank?no
  • * List previous issues experienced (dropsy, SBD, etc.)none
  • * List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank. Please include salt, Prazi, PP, etc and the approximate time and duration of treatment.none
  • * Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus?none
  • * Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.?bottom sitting and breathing heavy.

Ive been having some problems with my telescope Lola for the past couple of days. She has never had any problems since i got her but wednesday night she started to bottom sit which in unlike her. And she hasnt stopped since. She will just sit there and not swim around or to the top. Sometimes it looks like she has something she is trying to cough up but i dont see anything in her mouth. She still eats and isnt pineconed yet but im really worried. Any advice would be great.

Thanks,

Lindsey.

Edited by lindsey123

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Hi Lindsey,

I'm sorry Lola isn't up to her usual self. I have a couple of questions:

1. When you come near the tank or drop food in, does she start to swim around?

2. Has she ever had floatiness issues?

3. What happens if you try to disturb her to get her to swim away? Does she swim normally, or is she struggling to take off?

4. Any gasping at the surface recently?

5. Could you we the nitrate number for the tank?

6. See if you could check the gills to the see the color and looks of these organs.

7. Upload a video of Lola, if you could.

Thanks :)

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Thanks for the fast reply!

1.If i come near the tank or drop food in she will perk up a bit but not much at all.

2. Never had any floaty problems at all.

3. If i try to disturb her she tries to swim away but it seems difficult for her.

4. I Hadnt noticed any gasping recently. She hasnt come to the top at all since this happened and she was the one that i hand feed so when i feed them all I can tell she knows theres food but she wont come to the top, instead she will wait for a piece to fall to the floor by her.

5. Are you wanting me to re test the nitrate? Im about to go to bed but i can do another test in the morning.

6. From what i can see her gills look to be a dark pink

7. I will take a quick video and post ASAP.

Thanks!

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LOL. My apologies. I don't want you to re-test nitrate. Yesterday, when I was reading the info, somehow the nitrate appeared to be a blank to me, which it clearly wasn't :rofl

Looking forward to the video. I think that will help us greatly in trying to figure out what's wrong.

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I would like to get some other opinions, but it does look to me like she is having an awfully hard time getting lift to move around, such as would happen when something has damaged her swim bladder. When you disturb her and get her to move, is she able to move around all levels of the tank, or is she scooting along the tank floor, mostly?

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If i disturb her she will lift off the floor slightly but not for very long. She mostly just scoots over on the floor.

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That's why I suspected.

From what I can see, I think it's pretty safe to say that Lola's swim bladder is affected. Whether this is something that is permanently damaged or something that can be treated remains to be seen. I do have to be upfront with you and say that prognosis for floaters is much better for the so-called sinkers. :(

Having said that, we have nothing to lose by trying to treat her, and that is what I would recommend doing.

Goldfishconnection.com sells a medicated pellet food called Metro-Meds, and that is exactly what this situation calls for. There is also a food (not medicated) called Jumpstart, which is packed full of probiotics, to repopulate the digestive tract with beneficial bacteria after a course of antibiotics. Could you order the Metro-Meds, and if possible, the Jumpstart as well?

There is a chance that the meds will be ineffective, if the damage is permanent. However, Lola can still enjoy a good quality of life, despite having a damaged swim bladder :)

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aw, poor thing :( I have to agree with Alex, this does look like sinky swim bladder issues, it's good that you have a bare bottom tank for her to sit on.

If you have trouble affording metro meds a couple of our members were offering them free (you pay cost of shipping) a couple months ago. Not sure if they still have them available, but that is a possible option

http://www.kokosgold...tart-available/

http://www.kokosgold...ree-metro-meds/

The other thing you might want to consider when you set up your QT tank for her is try out a lowered water level. Sometimes this can help fish with swim bladder issues be a bit more active because the lower water level decreases pressure on the swim bladder. I use a piece of filter padding hanging out of the filter to reduce splash. Here's a video that briefly shows this.

<embed width="600" height="361" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowFullscreen="true" allowNetworking="all" wmode="transparent" src="http://static.photobucket.com/player.swf" flashvars="file=http%3A%2F%2Fvid436.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fqq81%2Fjegreen3%2FDSCN0030.mp4">

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I was afraid of that. :no: Im still not sure though because it looks like she is almost choking or coughing on something. But i dont know what it would be. there are a few stray peices of gravel left over so it could be that but i doubt it. I have ordered the meds and will keep her as comfortable as i can till they arrive. Thanks for all your help!

I will keep you all updated on her progress.

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You can easily check to see if she's choked on something by looking directly into her mouth. This can be faciliated by putting her in a vertical position (head up) and then gently lifting her out of the water. She will instinctively open her mouth, allowing you a look. You can use a flashlight, also.

I don't think she's choked on something, though.

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Well i checked as best i could and didnt see anything in her mouth. Im hoping she will stick it out till the meds arrive but she seems to be getting worse. she kind of leans to one side now when she bottom sits. I dont know if that matters or not but its something ive noticed. She is breathing really slowly too. :no: I feel so badly for her.

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Lola is now starting to pinecone. She may have last night too but not as noticable as now. She still will eat though which is good. Her tummy was starting to turn red from toughing the floor of the tank and the others were picking on her so shes floating in a colander at the top till i set up her qt tank. I gave her a pea with epsom salt in it and she ate it which is good. But im wondering is this normal for swim bladder issues? Its been 4 days and it happened so quickly that im wondering if its some internal bacteria or something.

Any ideas?

EDIT She also looks more swollen on one side.

Edited by lindsey123

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Sorry she is pineconing :( The good news is you caught it early and the metro meds is what you will need to treat.

Can you post some top view pics (or video) so that we can see the pineconing and if there is bloating?

This is not necessarily atypical. Swim bladder issues have a wide range of causes, one potential cause being internal infection (which may be bacterial or parasitic in nature). This can, in some cases, lead to dropsy. However, dropsy is treatable when caught early. Goldfish connection typically ships pretty fast so you should get your meds soon :)

I would get the QT tank setup for her ASAP. Do you have an extra heater for the QT?

EDIT: Could you also post a pic/video of your tank setup as well?

We need to also identify if there is a root cause of this issue in your tank.

How deep is the gravel? Any hollow ornaments? Any driftwood? When did you last clean your filters?

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Ive got the qt tank set up. Its just a 10 gal with an aqua clear 20 on it but hopefully it will get the job done. ive also put a heater in it and set it to 78 ish.

Should i go ahead and put her in and should i add epsom salt? I have some if i need to. Im uploading so pics of her and a quick video of my tank set up. Its bare bottom with a few quartz with anubias attached to it. I switch off cleaning the filters every other week as well.

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Go ahead and set up QT. The AC20 is perfect, although I think you will want an airstone in there as well, since we are planning to crank the heat up to 80. I'm sure we'll need the Epsom as well, but let's wait to see the videos/pics first.

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Here are some top view pics.

http://i1098.photobu...eX/IMG_1284.jpg

http://i1098.photobu...eX/IMG_1283.jpg

http://i1098.photobu...eX/IMG_1282.jpg

http://i1098.photobu...eX/IMG_1281.jpg

And here is a quick video of my set up

http://s1098.photobu...nt=IMG_1285.mp4

EDIT: i have an airstone in the qt tank and its set up with the heater set to 78 should i put her in?

Edited by lindsey123

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Go ahead and add her to QT, although you might want to put her in container of her own tank water, and then float it in the QT tank until you get matching temps. Once she's in, go ahead and raise it up to 80.

Epsom is at 1/4 teaspoon per 10 gallons. Make sure you note the day you've added, because we would like to stop treatment either on day 8 or before that.

You'll need to check your water parameters daily. I would like to suggest 100% WCs, although if the filter is cycled, then you could go with less (75-80%). Make sure you always match temps when you do WCs.

Do you think you can find some metronidazole powder locally, as well as some frozen blood worms? I would like to get some metro in her as soon as possible, and we can soak the blood worms in the metro solution prior to feeding it to her.

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ok ill put her in qt and add the epsom. The filter is cycled but ill go ahead with 100% daily. I can get frozen blood worms, but i dont know where i would get metro?

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Check with your LFS, and ask for metronidazole. Seachem makes it.

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okay i will call in the morning. Should i not feed her anything till then?

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Feed her whatever you normally feed her. It's only when we start medication that we should stick to that :)

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I have called everywhere and i cant find anywhere that carries metro. I ordered some online and did one day shipping so hopefully that or the goldfishconnection order arrives soon. Lola is looking alot worse. She is just laying on the bottom breathing really heavily and she has pineconed even more. Im not sure she will make it through the night. :no: Is there anything i can do for her or do I just wait for the meds to arrive?

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I'm sorry. That's the best we can do for now. The other meds available are not likely to help and more likely to make things worse.

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Oh hun. Im so sorry... Hold in there. Sometimes they get worse before they can get better. Follow the advice, we are here for you :hug

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