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shakaho

A Bog Filter for the Back Pond

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Have you ever built one for indoors?

Actually the one filtering the green tub was built for indoors, but my fish are all outside right now.

But since you kindly asked, and are being helpful;what i don't understand is the need for the stool and all the pipeing inside the container?

It's not really necessary. I wanted to have an area at the bottom where water could move freely so particles of debris don't stick all in one spot. As I said about the swirler, "I put an elbow on those pipes to make the water swirl around the bottom of the filter. This is probably totally unnecessary, but I like swirlers." Since the media is supported, all I really needed was the tee at the bottom of the pipe. I'd need the tee to keep the pipe opening from being right against the bottom.

Now if I didn't have the stool and something on top of it to support the gravel, the gravel would be all the way to the bottom. Then I would need some way to spread the water around so debris doesn't accumulate where the water comes in. Then I would need something like the "holey pipe" in the big bog filter. Or I could take the swirler and drill a bunch of holes in the pipes so the water would have multiple outlets.

in my novice mind, i assume, pump water from the tank to a hole in bottom of container, and the water pushes back up, past plant roots and outflows back into the tank. The pump in the tank can be easily accessed,cleaned and unclogged. And put something for the plant roots to hold onto / hold down in the container? This is my very very basic theory.

If you put a hole in the bottom of a container and pump water into the container through that hole, you have to have a support for the container to make room for the plumbing underneath. Also, since the hole and seal have a lot of water pushing down on them, the bottom of the container is the area with the greatest probability of leaking. While a few people make the inlet for the filter at the side near the bottom, most don't because they did it once and it leaked. This is particularly important indoors. So essentially everyone brings the water in from the top.

The gravel is something for the plant roots to hold onto. It is also the biomedium, since very pebble becomes covered with microorganisms. Your theory is pretty good.

We can return things too, BUT only if unused.........so if i tried modifying anything (pipes etc), its a no go.

Pvc pipe is very cheap. I pay less than $2 for a 10 foot length. So make mistakes and cut a new piece. Fittings just slide on the pipe, and if they turn out to be the wrong size or type, they slide off again. I never glue any fittings in place before I have everything built and tested. And even then, I only glue fittings that aren't in or over the water, since leaks of water into water don't matter. So the fittings I have tried and found wanting go back to the store in pristine condition.

Given the height of my aquarium, i need the filter sitting on the aquarium, or put a pump inside it to pump the water out and up into the tank.

What are the dimensions of your tank, and how high is it on the stand? I know it's six feet long. But it's hard to visualize your problem without all the data.

Why cant' you put the filter on a stand, table, or stool next to the aquarium? Only the out spout has to be higher than the top of the aquarium. I can't think of how you could set a heavy container of water and gravel on an aquarium.

(Do you know that on the advise of a forum BEFORE this one, i stuck (3) pond pumps inside my aquarium, my aquarium could take it, it really agitated the surface, and the fishes loved it, but my neighbour and my OH could not sleep at night for the noise - so that ended that) How do you keep the pond pump quiet indoors....ours sounded like a plane taking off.

None of my pumps make any noise. I can only tell they are on because the water is flowing. Perhaps you were using very large ones. Did they have suction cups (suckers) to hold them in place? For a 100 gallon tank, I would use a pump like this one: http://www.harborfreight.com/264-gph-submersible-fountain-pump-68395.html Here's one in a tank. I stuck it on the side with the inlet pointed down.

IMG_0229.jpg

The only sound was a little splash from the water.

An adjusteable switch are not always availeable in larger pumps, they're availeable in the smaller pumps, but not the bigger ones,(i checked previously) god knows why cos it would make sense for larger pumps to have adjusteable switches.

What size pumps are "larger" and "smaller"? Of course products are different in different countries. The adjustments that I have seen are just a valve that you can twist to control pump intake or out flow. I've never seen a switch.

And finally given the huge volume of tank water does it really absorb all the nitrate? Can you imagine if i went thru all this and it doesn't work. I would not be a happy bunny. :krazy: Have you done a pre- and post test for nitrates? Is it the number of the plants that count or the thickness of their roots. Presently, my dining table is covered with a variety of houseplants in buckets of tank water, i'm getting them use to water (hydronics?), instead of soil medium. I've been feeding them tank water, and i must say they are perking up, but the small roots are dying off. ( god i just read one of your nelson links and they say don't remove the soil.....oh crap )

Just for you, I went out and did one of those annoying nitrate tests on the water from the mini bog filter. It reads zero. The 120 gallon tub has been running for about 2 1/2 months. I trickle in 5 gallons of water a day. No other water changes have been done.

No, I haven't tested before, but my ponds with other filters show a trace of nitrate. The growth of the plants in the bog tells me that they are sucking up lots of nitrate.

Putting a plants in a bucket of water is different from planting them in a gravel bog filter. If the water is stagnant, it becomes oxygen deficient and some kinds of plant roots will die. In a bog filter, you have a continuous supply of oxygenated water from the tank, so almost any kind of plant will grow, even those whose roots can't stand anaerobic water. If you put the plant roots in the fish tank, where the water is circulating they will get oxygen, but many will not grow as well as in gravel with circulating water.

Don't worry about washing the soil off. The advice was about planting them in the gravel of a new bog filter, which needs a while to collect fertilizer from the fish water.

It is the mass of growing plants that counts. The plants need the nitrate to make useful things like proteins and nucleic acids. The bigger the plant, the more it will use.

Wow pineapple plants.....edible ones or ornamental ones? Either way wow. We don't have that kind of weather for it.

We just started planting the tops of pineapples from the grocery when we first moved to the subtropics. When you harvest a pineapple, a new plant grow from the old roots. Then we plant the top of the one we ate, so for each pineapple plant that fruits, we get two new plants. Even with giving away lots of plants, we have more than 20 out there now.

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To add to the ammonia and nitrate thing...

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1469-8137.1933.tb07015.x/pdf

This is a pdf I'm currently reading that states that through that experiment, plants grew better with nitrate vs ammonia. They were using nitrate salts which is a much higher concentration than what you would find as waste product in an aquarium.

Needless to say it's something that plants will readily gobble up :D

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God i wanna give you a BIG HUG :hug ( you are so practical, my kind of women).......i love to brainstorm, and few women i know do, and my OH's job is to analyse, so he doesn't want to do it at home.....i think i talk to fast for him, and he looses track and switches off zzzzzz

" Your theory is pretty good...since the hole and seal have a lot of water pushing down on them"

Thank you for your compliment, and thank you for pointing a potential problem

"everyone brings the water in from the top ...."

I will heed this very good advice

I have a barebottom tank, because all the fishpoo and bad bacteria gets trapped in and around the gravel. So for me to contemplate putting gravel for the plant roots is not sitting comfortable for me. Any other medium? Filter floss? traps debris and easily replaceable? bio sponge?

What are the dimensions of your tank, and how high is it on the stand?

6ft x 50cm x 50cm

105cm height (tank and cabinet combined)

Why cant' you put the filter on a stand, table, or stool next to the aquarium?

On both ends of the aquarium, already have a HOB filter on it....for now

I can't think of how you could set a heavy container of water and gravel on an aquarium?

Thats why i'm hopeing to use something other than gravel, and i only need enough water at root level? Looking at those trickle tower filters, one of those long thin containers is what i had in mind.

Did they have suction cups (suckers) to hold them in place?<http://www.harborfreight.com/264-gph-submersible-fountain-pump-68395.html>

yes and yes. They made a humming sound...boy they were loud. The fishes like to swim over them and surf the waves....as in hawaii. We also added a bio sponge held down with an elastic band, over the grill - to act as a mini filter and where good bacteria could develope, and rinsed lightly during water change.

a valve that you can twist to control pump intake or out flow. I've never seen a switch.

yes a valve to adjust outflow.

Just for you, I went out and did one of those annoying nitrate tests

I thank thee :thanks .......and yes those nitrates tests are very annoying.....and i destest seeing the red colour on measuring my tap water.

If you put the plant roots in the fish tank, where the water is circulating they will get oxygen, but many will not grow as well as in gravel with circulating water.

Does it have to be gravel? filterwool? biosponge? I trying to avoid weight on top of my tank.

Don't worry about washing the soil off

phew

It is the mass of growing plants that counts

ok

a new plant grow from the old roots

wow someone is getting alot of natural vitamin C(pineapple), and of course vitamin D3 from all that glorious sun. We've been to florida twice, when it was not suppose to be that hot, and boy did my skin get scorched. I couldn't slap on my sunscreen fast enough, i wilted beneath that blazing heat, and my forced tan(sunscreen zero protection) lasted me a whole year, when i got home.I was so out of my element there i tanned way too easy.

Its midnight here in uk, so i'll post this and add some pics in the morning.

:iwill

:sleeping:

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To add to the ammonia and nitrate thing...

http://onlinelibrary...3.tb07015.x/pdf

This is a pdf I'm currently reading that states that through that experiment, plants grew better with nitrate vs ammonia. They were using nitrate salts which is a much higher concentration than what you would find as waste product in an aquarium.

Needless to say it's something that plants will readily gobble up :D

308 pages :read ..........

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Pics;

1. top of tank - tank has since been moved against a wall(window condesation). North facing morning light only. Filtration >15x.

2 Plan to put the long green container, supported by edge of tank at the back and supported by the middle supports? Any thoughts?

3. my demoralising attempt with pothos plants in pond baskets, to absorb nitrate.....nada.....looked pretty though.... Nothing happened to the nitrate. Even worse lost 3 3-year old fishes...unexplained deaths, excessive slimecoat issues....(poisonous saps from pothos plants? i had unknowingly taken cuttings and plonked them in the tank water etc). I had the spray bars aiming at the roots to create movement.

we've also tried to chemically remove the nitrate in the tap water http://www.pozzani.c...-250/index.html

First cartridge was great, finally saw what yellow looks like in api nitrate test.....but subsequent cartridges did nothing....not a long term sustaineable solution.

1topoftank.jpg

2longcontainer2.jpg

2longcontainer.jpg

4pothosplants.jpg

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shakaho -

Wow. Beautiful job on the pond! I wanted to ask you how you screwed the boards to the pond - did your husband just use a masonry bit? What kind of screws did he use? Did he drill pilot holes first?

I really love your design. I love my little pond, and would like to make it much bigger - or keep it as is and just build another one! Thanks for sharing your wonderful work - it's inspirational!

ETA: I grow lots of plants in my filter - it's amazing how well many "land" plants do in there! I have a couple giant irises sitting in there ( in their pots!), some devil's ivy, impatiens, mexican petunia.; It's cool to try different things. The tomato idea in your bog filter is brilliant!

Edited by Jennie

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Here's how we did the top. We put the board in place, and I held it steady while he drilled pilot holes (yes, with a masonry bit). Then he took off the board, lifted the liner, and put anchors in the holes - just regular anchors, not special ones for concrete. Then he put it back in place, and I pulled the liner tight while he put the screws through the guide holes into the anchors. He was a little surprised at how easy it was to find the anchors. After the first one, they just zipped right in. He was really proud, since this was the first time he had screwed something to concrete. After all the boards were on, I had to do some fine tuning. There were places where excessive folds in the liner had to be trimmed, so I loosened the screws, took off the board, trimmed liner and put it back. I was nervous about this at first, afraid I would strip the anchors, but it worked beautifully.

I think he used aluminum screws, I'll go out tomorrow morning and check them with a magnet and tell you if I remembered wrong.

Have you showed us your pond? Maybe we could come up with some ideas for expanding or building a new one. A lot of people add a new pond and connect the old and new with a stream.

When I was moving one of my 5 gallon filters, I decided to pull out the media and rinse it. I pulled on the plants and everything came out at once -- plants, media, and plumbing, all tied together by plant roots. This filter had been set up less than 6 months. I just put it all back in together. It was doing its job.

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Pics;

1. top of tank - tank has since been moved against a wall(window condesation). North facing morning light only. Filtration >15x.

2 Plan to put the long green container, supported by edge of tank at the back and supported by the middle supports? Any thoughts?

3. my demoralising attempt with pothos plants in pond baskets, to absorb nitrate.....nada.....looked pretty though.... Nothing happened to the nitrate. Even worse lost 3 3-year old fishes...unexplained deaths, excessive slimecoat issues....(poisonous saps from pothos plants? i had unknowingly taken cuttings and plonked them in the tank water etc). I had the spray bars aiming at the roots to create movement.

we've also tried to chemically remove the nitrate in the tap water http://www.pozzani.c...-250/index.html

First cartridge was great, finally saw what yellow looks like in api nitrate test.....but subsequent cartridges did nothing....not a long term sustaineable solution.

Regarding Pothos, I have had them in my water for a number of months now and to my knowledge no problems that I know of, but I could be wrong. I currently have over a dozen pothos plant cuttings most in my filters which run 1150gph on my 75g and my nitrates which used to be on the high side are nearly non existent now.

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Pics;

1. top of tank - tank has since been moved against a wall(window condesation). North facing morning light only. Filtration >15x.

2 Plan to put the long green container, supported by edge of tank at the back and supported by the middle supports? Any thoughts?

3. my demoralising attempt with pothos plants in pond baskets, to absorb nitrate.....nada.....looked pretty though.... Nothing happened to the nitrate. Even worse lost 3 3-year old fishes...unexplained deaths, excessive slimecoat issues....(poisonous saps from pothos plants? i had unknowingly taken cuttings and plonked them in the tank water etc). I had the spray bars aiming at the roots to create movement.

we've also tried to chemically remove the nitrate in the tap water http://www.pozzani.c...-250/index.html

First cartridge was great, finally saw what yellow looks like in api nitrate test.....but subsequent cartridges did nothing....not a long term sustaineable solution.

Regarding Pothos, I have had them in my water for a number of months now and to my knowledge no problems that I know of, but I could be wrong. I currently have over a dozen pothos plant cuttings most in my filters which run 1150gph on my 75g and my nitrates which used to be on the high side are nearly non existent now.

Thanks :) , yes alot of people have had success with the pothos (i don't know why my attempt didn't work)......i gonna give it another go(will start my own thread)....with larger household plants and larger 'whole' pothos plant rather than cuttings, just in case it was a coincidence......fingerscross

Glad you sorted your nitrates out..... :clapping:

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Pothos grown in soil needs some time to adapt to having it's roots in water. It won't take up much nitrate for the first couple of weeks. Cuttings won't take up any until they grow roots.

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Pothos grown in soil needs some time to adapt to having it's roots in water. It won't take up much nitrate for the first couple of weeks. Cuttings won't take up any until they grow roots.

yeah, half of mine die but the ones who make it do really well.

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