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210 Oranda

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Posts posted by 210 Oranda


  1.  

    Paraguard has been indicated to not interact with prazi on Seachem'a side, but I took that to mean it didn't impact the efficacy of the Paraguard. I haven't checked with Hikari but can try calling them later this afternoon when I'm back home. It would be worth finding out.

    More and more I'm thinking the powdered praziquantel is the way to go - much less finicky. I wish it was more widely available up her!

    Metro was a fourteen day course of the Seachem powdered product, flakes were tried initially it the fish wouldn't eat and so that idea was scrubbed. Forcefeeding has been moderately successful from what the op tells us.

    Yes, I agree.  Prazipro is a fussy substance.  I use Aqua Prazi for quarantine and mixed treatments and just use Prazipro for maintenance rounds with no salt.

     

    What was the dosage of the Metro.  I use the upper 200 mg per 10 gallons as the water borne isn't as readily absorbed as the food.  Food is better.  I think NLS Hex Shield is our best new option if the fish is eating. I know this guy wasn't eating.

     

     

     

    I'm not positive which dose he used - I always mean the 2 measure dose unless I specify otherwise, but there was a lot going on in this thread and I'm not sure we clarified that. 210, how many measures of metro were you dosing?

     

    I used the metroplex as directed.. 1 level scoop per 10 gallon of water,  from September 27 to October 10.. (w/ .1% salt)

    Then from October 11 to October 22 Kana along with prazipro (single dose, no salt)

     

    On the bright side.. I've seen the (original) butterfly to look for food at times..

    she still spit out the gel while syringe fed but I have seen her getting some brine shrimp when I toss them in for the "other" butterfly

    However.. that "hungry/looking for food" behavior is inconsistent.. but I think it is something positive


  2. Okay, we have conferred on the back end and aren't clear on the relationship between those two fish. Were they from the same seller and in quarantine together?

    It's not looking good for the original butterfly. It may be harsh, but as a last ditch attempt at dealing with what I suspect parasitic we need to do two weeks of paraguard with a double dose of prazi and .1% salt. Change the water every three days. Please check and recheck your husbandry in the tank th the c shaped butterfly, that the water parameters are stable and you're not over feeding.

    If this doesn't work, assume the imports have some sort of aggressive infection we cannot treat without prescription antibiotics and a vet's care. In that case clean, warm water and time are the best you can do, unless you'd consider euthanizing them.

    Both butterflies came form DO at same time along with a ranchu..

    Ranchu is doing great, already in main tank

     

    The butterfly in C shape was doing good during the metro & kana treatments.. she was somehow lethargic but I thought she was being sympathetic to the "non-eating" butterfly.. she got to C shape after I added prazi for the second time

     

    I will continue the paraguard along with the prazi + salt as suggested and I'll also use outside water (non soften) "just in case"

     

    I was about to turn the lights off and I noticed the fin rot on the (original) butterfly.. Should I "triple sufla" ??? (or isn't relevant right now)

     


  3. Over a month in QT and the behavior is still the same..

    One butterfly is being syringe fed and is still spitting out the food

     

    The butterfly you see below loves to eat but (in the last couple of days) she stays in a C shape most of the time

    I don't know if she's dying.. she search for food at times but goes back to C shape after eating

     

    They have had 14 days of metro (alone), 12 days of kana (alone), 2 rounds of prazi (while w/ kana) and paraguard for 4 days

     

    What should I do ??? :( :(

     


  4. I just realized that one of my little tanks have been exposed to some metal rust.. so the fish have been exposed as well

     

    The LED light I bought wasn't 100% plastic as I thought so being so close to the water cause for it to drip contaminated water into the tank

     

     

    Besides water change.. is there anything else I should do to (or with) the fish ???

     

    (exuse the typo)

     

    Thanks!!

     

    20151014_132204_zpsgssmlyuv.jpg

     

    20151014_132453_001_zpslave5zw2.jpg


  5. So I was surprised not to find too much online about chemically softened water and aquaria other than general admonitions not to use it. Some anecdotes about people who have used it without problems, but then they weren't treating the fish with salt and reefers would never use softened water.

    The water softeners don't actually take out the hardness, they just replace it (Ca and Mg) with Na. The TDS and kH will stay the same but the gH will be zero and pH will still be neutral or basic (not acidic like naturally soft water). Very unnatural water for fish (from what I read online) but great for us as the Ca and Mg wont precipitate out on our plumbing.

    I would surmise that the addition of a salt treatment to chemically softened water is just too much osmotic chaos for a fish too handle. My fish had the signs/symptoms of osmotic stress that I read about online and they resolved once I added back some minerals.

    The issue that led me down this path: I have a 75 gallon that I am cycling with fish. I was very excited to finally get a good nitrite bump and when I did I immediately went and did a water change and added salt. I've been using the water from an outside spigot because it is closer to my tank, but this time I used the inside tap because it had been cooler the previous days and I wanted to match the water temps. Well, the addition of salt and the reduction of the gH killed off my newly developing cycle. I was devastated and confused. I thought it was the salt at first but that didn't make sense from everything I've read (I dosed 0.1%) so it dawned on me that maybe it was the softened water (my normal water is around 11 degrees hardness, softened water is 0) and I had done a near 75% change. I'm happy to say that with changing out that water and the addition of a Wonder Shell (probably over kill) my cycle is chugging back along. In winter I am going to have to use my softened water so I will be playing around with Replenish to add back the gH (and praying) until spring comes again.

    Hope that helps. I am a newer aquarium keeper, so if what I wrote doesn't jive with the experience or knowledge of the more experienced here I'm not going to be upset if it is deleted. Again, this is all my anecdotal experience and internet based research/knowledge. Take it for what it's worth!

    I've used once (before softener) city water because of its minerals.. however it is not as easy to do water changes that with softened water.

    My GH doesn't get affected (I think).. as I mentioned earlier it is in the 3 or 400's (w/ soft water)

    My main 125G has soft water and I have no problems w it..

    I definitely like to try city water with the butterfly but it concerns me that (if it works) and once out of QT.. she might go back to where she is now


  6. Pardon the intrusion, hope it's not too inappropriate for me to butt in, but out of curiosity, what is the gh of your water?

    I don't have it in top of my head..

    Lisa (fantail1) gave me my exact number once but I lost it..

     

    It was somewhere in the 3 or 400's.. my water is super hard

    A water softener hasn't been installed since you last tested, has it?

    Beautiful fish by the way.

    I've always had a water softener.. I asked about using soft water vs regular city water and I had divided answers. I use soft because is just easier for me


  7. Oh no, dips are only really useful for knocking back visible external parasites. You want the longer bath course, at the lower concentration.

    Just a quick parenthesis..

    I have two butterflies and ranchu in the same tank.. and even though the ranchu is "living it" I left him with the butterflies to be treated w/ the metro..

     

    Im planning to move the ranchu to the main tank as soon as the 14 days of metro ends..

     

    Just making sure that a couple of days of Paraguard is not gonna lower the ranchu defenses...  :idont 


  8. Finish out the metro course please, and add in the Paraguard as directed. This one likes to knock back filters a bit so keep an eye on your water parameters in the hospital tank and, if needed, dose prime and water change every two days. Continue with syringe feeding, and I agree it should be real repashy, not just the powder. The powder works well for fry but I think the gel bits have a better chance of staying down.

    If the Paraguard doesn't work, there are stronger medications we can consider. Hopefully it will be moot, however. The good thing about doing a metro round is we have eliminated gram positive bacteria from our potential pathogen list. So next up is a stronger antiparasitic, and if that isn't doing the trick a more broadly inhibitive medication combined with a gram negative antibiotic is the next try. We are trying to eliminate the most likely possibilities first.And just to clarify, you will have no problems adding the last few days of metro in with the Paraguard, they won't do each other any harm in efficacy.

    Do you want me to do "an hour dip" with her or just regular dosage


  9. Finish out the metro course please, and add in the Paraguard as directed. This one likes to knock back filters a bit so keep an eye on your water parameters in the hospital tank and, if needed, dose prime and water change every two days. Continue with syringe feeding, and I agree it should be real repashy, not just the powder. The powder works well for fry but I think the gel bits have a better chance of staying down.

    If the Paraguard doesn't work, there are stronger medications we can consider. Hopefully it will be moot, however. The good thing about doing a metro round is we have eliminated gram positive bacteria from our potential pathogen list. So next up is a stronger antiparasitic, and if that isn't doing the trick a more broadly inhibitive medication combined with a gram negative antibiotic is the next try. We are trying to eliminate the most likely possibilities first.

    And just to clarify, you will have no problems adding the last few days of metro in with the Paraguard, they won't do each other any harm in efficacy.

    Got it!.. thx..

    I'll add the Paraguard as soon as I get home.. just FYI, today is the 6th dose (11 day) of metro (in case someone wonders)

     

    and no.. No poop


  10.  

     

    I think it would be safer to make a batch of repashy with too much water and feed that via a syringe. The gel will be inactivated so will lessen the chance of clogging the intestines.

    Chelsea.. thank you for the input but she is refusing to keep the syringed food inside..

    It was a fight just to make her stay still in my hand and even though she did swallow some of the (repashy) paste

    she did spit it out after "chewing" it for a few seconds.

     

    I don't know what to do or say anymore.. we are on the 10th day of metro powder but no change

    She has to be having some kind of intake to be able to be alive today (today is the 17th day w/o food)

     

    If there's anything else you guys can think of please let me know.. who knows how much longer she will last :(

     

    Despite spitting out most of the food, she likely is getting some of it in. The repashy paste is messy so it leaks out when feeding happens, and it looks like she's not getting any when she actually is getting some. I remember when I had to syringe-feed. It was always a messy affair! 

     

    Are you waiting until she has settled before you try feeding? It's not about 'making' her stay still as it is about allowing her to get comfortable. Fish who are stressed won't eat just as much as fish who are sick won't eat. Also, how long/often have you been doing the syringe feeding? 

     

    I have only tried this twice because is extremely messy.. and yes, I've waited for her to (somewhat) calm before I feed. however, she does NOT get "comfortable".. she breathes really fast when in my hand, so I know she doesn't like it..

     

    Now..

    why did you say that is "safer" to syringe feed that to add the paste to a small container so she can be forced to intake the food ???? (thx!)


  11. I think it would be safer to make a batch of repashy with too much water and feed that via a syringe. The gel will be inactivated so will lessen the chance of clogging the intestines.

    Chelsea.. thank you for the input but she is refusing to keep the syringed food inside..

    It was a fight just to make her stay still in my hand and even though she did swallow some of the (repashy) paste

    she did spit it out after "chewing" it for a few seconds.

     

    I don't know what to do or say anymore.. we are on the 10th day of metro powder but no change

    She has to be having some kind of intake to be able to be alive today (today is the 17th day w/o food)

     

    If there's anything else you guys can think of please let me know.. who knows how much longer she will last :(


  12. How is she doing?

     

     

    Yes, any eating? If not, you're going to need to syringe feed her until,we can get on top of what is making her sick and refuse food.

     

    Ladies..

     

    I have an idea (perhaps dumb) but it might work..

     

    Repashy has to be boiled to solidify.

    The powder/water mix is only a paste that can be diluted if added in water...

     

    What happens if I add some of that mix (without boiling) to a small container where the butterfly is ???

    She will be basically swimming in food "for like 20-30 seconds"..

    I don't know if the mix "HAS" to be boiled for the ingredients/nutrients to be active (I doubt it)

     

    Any thoughts??


  13. How is she doing?

      

    Yes, any eating? If not, you're going to need to syringe feed her until,we can get on top of what is making her sick and refuse food.

    No food.. :(

    Im driving home (she didn't eat this morning)..

    Its gonna be really challenging because she doesn't like to be touched..

    All I've seen the couple of times I put her in the small container to force feeding is a "white string poop" 30-40min after


  14. The use of metro may help with the internal irritation so that the fish will eventually eat without resorting to force feeding. If the metro doesn't work, ArcticMama may recommend the Paraguard.

    Im ordering Paraguard and NLS Hex and I did what you told me earlier..

    I hope with all that food something went into the digestive track

     

    At the end of the video you can see her spitting out the worms..  :wall 

     


  15. When one of my goldfish had to go into QT, my other goldfish literally stopped eating even though food was dropped in front of his face. I let this happen for four days, then I put him into a large glass measuring cup where he barely could move. He wasn't squashed in the cup, but just couldn't move anywhere other than just turn around and round. I then dropped some food (very very small pieces) into the cup and by just breathing he ate the food because he couldn't escape from the food. I'd try this with bloodworms since minimal chewing is involved (I think) in getting this food into his digestive track. Since your fish is relatively active any flalying around in the cup may result in him swallowing bloodworms. It seems syringe feeding is easier when their energy is lower.

    If you try this, don't keep him in the cup too long.

    I know is impossible to tell without proper studies.. but is it possible that something inside her "isn't there anymore" or it got ruined that she now refuses to have any intakes ??

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