[*]Test Results for the Following:
Ammonia Level?0
Nitrite Level?0
Nitrate level?10
Ph Level, (If possible,KH and GH and chloramines)?8.0ph 100+KH
Ph Level (KH/GH) out of the Tap?8.0ph 100KH
Brand of test-kit used? (strips or drops?)drops
[*]Tank size (How many Gals) and How long has it been running?150 gallons 3 months
[*]What is the name and size of the filter/s?Fluval fx5,2 rena filstar xp3's
[*]How often do you change the water and how much?90-100 gallons once per week

[*]How many fish in the tank and their size?2 6 inch ranchu,4 3 inch ranchu
[*]What kind of water additives or conditioners?Prime
[*]Any medications added to the tank?no
[*]Add any new fish to the tank?no
[*]What do you feed your fish?gel food 1x hikari lionhead 1x per day
[*]Any unusual findings on the fish such as
"grains of salt",
bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus?Female has 4 pimples on her lip
[*]Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating,ect..? no

Anyways I did a search hoping that someone has gone through this. I had a female get a few pimples on her lip, none inside,no red irritation, and none on her wen. Last fall her mother had the same thing for a few months and passed away unexpectedly. She ate fine never bottom sitting. I have another post about gravel and am very likely going to remove it in case that's the culprit. So anyone have any ideas? Thanks in advance.

Yes. White pimples on the lip can indicate columnaris. Since you recently had a fish die with the same symptoms, you may have a very virulent strain of columnaris causing bacteria in your tank & you should treat your remaining fish for this at once. Columnaris is an insidious fish disease that can cause swift death. The bacteria responsible can live well in gravel that is not turned and vacuumed regularly. The most common one causing the disease is flexibacter which thrives at high temps and with low oxygen (even tho' flex is aerobic).

Increase aeration in the tank. Sift and vacuum gravel. Cool the water with a fan/remove lights and lid and consider a tank bath of potassium permanganate and feeding antibiotic food.
Be careful with water born antibiotics like tetracyline often used for flex because of your high pH-( tetracyline is ineffective in pH above 7.5) - you can feed Metromeds (from Goldfish Connection.com) or another antibiotic food that contains oxytetracyline.

Hello - any chance you could get a well focussed pic?

White spots/pimples on the mouth could be a sign of mouth rot (columnaris) which can be a very quick killer. Being able to see a picture would really help, especially as you say you lost a fish with the same symptoms.
I haven't checked your other thread relating to gravel, but can tell you that unless it's shallow it can easily harbour all sorts of bacteria and parasites if not maintained very thoroughly.

PS. Ooops Trinket! Double-post!!!

Never mind we said exactly the same thing

I tried for a pic but no luck. I'll try again later. The gravel is very thin layer, but there is a 6x2 grate that sit about an inch above the tank floor then the gravel sits on top. So my concern is that there is a lot of crud underneath even with the filters pulling water through the bottom of the tank. So I am going to pull the gravel and grates. I was going to do a section per week but if you think it can be a major cause, I'll pull it up quicker. I was planning on getting the gravel off the first grate,then lifting the grate out, shut off the filter,and use a gravel vac and scraper to get the crud off the bottom.
Back to the fish. There are no strings hanging,redness,or raised area.The best that I canexplain it is its like little white heads on her lip. Which med food do you recommend? When her mother died it was almost a year ago.She never displayed any real outright problems except being very round,which made me believe she died from being eggbound.Since that time I upgraded to a much larger tank.I'll be doing a water change today or tomorrow.
Any suggestions on how to remove the gravel and grates are also greatly appreciated.
Thanks
BTW here are a few pics of the grate
http://s307.photobucket.com/albums/nn315/A...ly242008018.jpg
http://s307.photobucket.com/albums/nn315/A...ly242008020.jpg

Given that you suspect that there might be something nasty under the grates, I think it would be best to 1) remove the fish to another container, 2) do a 100% water change, and 3) remove the grates, the gravel and any crud underneath all at the same time. You might get a little cycle bump from doing this, but there should be adequate beneficial bacteria in your filters to help your cycle rebound pretty quickly. If the health of any of your fish is at all compromised, I don't think it's a good idea to expose them to whatever is lurking under the grates by going about this process gradually and with them in the tank.

Thanks for the reply. I took some gravel out and am doing a large water change. I will wait a little on the grates because I want most of the gravel out before I move them.

When I do remove the grates I plan on using my scraper to peel the crap off the bottom. Do you think it would be a good idea to turn the filters off during this process. And of course the fish in a few rubbermaid totes.
Thanks for all your help. I will never try gravel again...

Yes, I definitely think that you should turn your filters off during this process. I don't know enough about undergravel filters to know if what's under there will need to be scraped off or not. It may just be a lot of loose stuff.

Does anyone know how long it would be ok to have the filters off for? They are canister filters if that helps.

I routinely turn my canister filter off for as long as it takes me to do a water change -- about 30 minutes or so. This has never caused a problem for me.

I agree with Kristen... When doing water changes my filter is usually off between 30-60 minutes, and appears to be fine.

Yeah, I've never gone over half an hour, just wanted to see if anyone has. Thanks

Yep, I go over 30 minutes all the time. I'm stuck with the bucket brigade (afraid of the Python) and can really only lift 3 gallons over the edge of the tank (tall-er tank) so my water changes tend to take up to an hour, depending on how much I take out. I'm 99% sure that's completely fine!

Oh, and I just want to say, I hope everything goes well with your fish, they are all so beautiful!!!

As Acupunk said, I really hope you could remove the fish before cleaning an undergravel filter or any heavy duty gravel vacuuming - anaerobic bacteria get disturbed and when these bateria come into contact with oxygen in the water - a process called sulfate reduction occurs that is toxic for fish and causes swirling and floating.

What are your plans for medicating?

I checked and started medigold and water changes. When I get back from Portland I'll move the fish and clean it out. That will be Sunday. I need to conserve my filter media since it will take me longer than 30 minutes to get all the crap cleaned out. Will taking the media out of the filters and leave it exposed to air give me closer to an hour? I use my Fluval to drain, so I'll be removing the media to pump the water out. Do you think salt will be helpful?
Thanks for your help

Someone can correct me if anything I do is wrong, but this is what I like to do when I am doing a 100% water change, and know it's going to take a little while.

I use 3 buckets for my change. The first bucket I fill with water from the tank before doing anything else and move in the fish. After the fish are in that bucket (with an air stone if it's going to be a longer period), I take the filter media out and rinse in it the tank. I stir everything up and the tank looks nasty, but it's okay because all of the water is coming out anyway. Then I put the rinsed filter media in the bucket with the fish. That way 1) the media doesn't dry out 2) the bucket is essentially filtered and safe while the fish is in it.

I do all of my cleaning, rinse everthing in the old tank water, then use a gravel vac to syphon out the leftover gunk and all the water. Since there are no fish in the tank I can empty the first bucket once full while water goes to the other bucket, and just leave the syphon in the tank. Then I refill the tank with temp matched water, add the dechlorinator and let everything run about 5 minutes. Then put the fish back in.. So far I've never had an cycle bumps, and I get a nice thorough cleaning.

I feel kinda retarded since I've been keeping goldies for over 4 years but have never had an issue like this. CountryLovah, you idea might work but there is a TON of media to take out. This is a 150 gallon tank with 3 filters. I am wondering if I open the canisters and run airstones at the very bottom so the bubbles move up through the media if that would keep the beneficial bacteria alive long enough. Because if I'm doing a 100 percent water change then I will be doing a little work on the plumbing and adding a sheet of styrofoam between the tank and the stand to give it a little more cushion. The old crappy water is going to be drained out my window or into the sink via the FX5 (with the media removed). So I think I can do it in an hour. What do you guys think?

See that's what I get for skimming threads!!! I agree that taking out the filter media for my smaller tanks is incredibly different than you trying to remove media from all those huge filters in such a large tank! I suppose you could use a rubbermaid?

However I've also had filters unplugged for an hour before plenty of times with no problems. We recently had a power outage and it was 3-4 hours before I could get the filters plugged into a generator, and there was no issue there.

Curious to see how things go.. : ) Good luck, sounds like you've got a TON of work to do! lol

I would just put your fish in a couple of rubbermaids with the filters and have them going ...

I love how I went on an on for twenty minutes and you manage to say it perfectly with one simple line! : )

..you are too ammusing never change !!!!

Don't worry, you'll be a pro in no time. I can't "run" these filters on the rubbermaids. They will blow the fish out. Seriously.I'll be back with a picture for you. Plus another reason why I can't run them is they need "head" room to get the syphon started.

Hey! I figure while I am still learning/building up my knowledge base I can sign on, throw in a few strange dumb comments and at least get people laughing. Maybe AT me more than WITH me but either works!!! For real, I read as many threads as I can, and try to soak in as much info as I can. Sometimes it comes back out distorted, but I'm trying! LOL And sometimes it comes out in long paragraphs that are unneccessary too : )

Here we go here is a picture of the fluval fx5. it pumps 607gph.
http://s307.photobucket.com/albums/nn315/A...ly242008021.jpg
Here are the xp3's
http://s307.photobucket.com/albums/nn315/A...ly242008022.jpg
I might be able to do it with the xp3s but no way with the fluval. These totes are around 35-40 gallons and I only plan to use 2 of them.

You are fine. We all have learned the same way that you are. Nothing wrong with trying to help

I know Daryl keeps media in a bucket seeded it all times with an airstone for emergency tank set ups ..(she just adds ammonia daily)..I would just put all media in a stocking or stockings and put it in with the fish or a fish ...I honestly do not think your bb's will die that quick I have taken longer than an hour to do a wc without any probs ..I just always make sure they are in tank water

Well the gravel and grates are gone and I am really glad I decided to do this. It was really bad underneath the grates. I put my media in one rubbermaid tote with aeration and the fish in the other. It took a few hours to do this and I still have a fat mess to clean up. The fish seem a little confused. As far as treatment should I qt this fish or is medigold good for now? She has not changed, eating,pooping and cruising around. I guess I'll find out if my media made it through in the next few days. Thanks for alll the suggestions I greatly appreciate it.

Good news that you dismantled the UG filter - Gha! That stuff gets nasty.
Regarding food, I think you need Metromeds which contain oxytetracyline, rather than Medigold which does not.

I have already started them on medigold, should I feed it the duration and do metromeds? I do have both. The whole tank bottom was covered with mulm it was nasty.

Well, yes - with antib's you must always finish the course once started otherwise you can build bacterial resitance. I think Trinket did say Metromeds when she recommended medfood. I'm not sure the Mgold has such effective ingredients for this problem. But, watch and see if there is any improvement. Keep us updated.

Dang it! I read somewhere to do medigold not on this thread. I'll switch over at 2 weeks. I might give that fish a pp dip. Her pimples are the same, no growth or anything.

I'm not trying to be argumentative, I just want to understand this. I've been trying to understand the difference between MetroMed and MediGold. It just seems to me that any time med food is recommended, it's always MM and it's always said that MG is too hard on fish. So, if that's the case, what is ever the point of MG? Of course, this is off topic.

My understanding is that they have different antibiotics in them.(couldn't tell you which ones off the top off my head) I always use medigold for new QTed fish. Here's where I found to use medigold
http://www.kokosgoldfish.com/Columnaris.html
I have used metromeds for dropsy with some success in the past.

It is just a case of trying to match up the most effective treatment with the condition. Antib's have quite a specific field of effectiveness and each medfood contains different antibiotics, as Ajno says.
Medigold for instance, isn't considered 'too harsh' except in the case of dropsy, where kidneys are already compromised; one of its ingredients, Kanamycin, is toxic to kidney tissue and hard to expel from the fishes system once ingested. For this reason MM's are better ie. safer.
It also happens that MM's contain Oxytetracycline which is good for treating columnaris. Medigold on the other hand is very effective for septicaemia. So really, its just down to which bacteria need to be whacked!

Thank you Ajno and Pixie... I think I just need to make me a big ol' list of which illness gets which food! lol!

Me neither