Hi everyone. God I love this site - it's taken me from ignorant to novice so thats a start! Anyways, I've had Speedy in quarantine for about 3-4 weeks now and he has shown various symptoms which I have been going over with Pixie (http://www.kokosgoldfish.invisionzone.com/...mp;#entry780780). I had feared he was getting the dreaded dropsy and feared the worst with the lack of decent medication available here in the UK but his swelling has gone down a bit and his pineconing has gone down considerably in the last 48 hours though not disappeared and seems to be localised to the swelling on his flank where the pineconing is at all visible. You would have to look quite closely to see the coning. However, he is still prone to bottom sitting, his back fins are still somewhat clamped although he can use them when he needs to. His dorsal is also mostly down. His waste goes from lots to little from brown to white from stringy to thick and trailing so you can see I never really know where he is in his healing process and if you have read the thread I have provided his red marks are still visible but far less 'angry. As often seems to be the case for most people going through this he feeds fine and perks up when I come in the room and for some time after feeding/attention. There are photos via photobucket in the thread also.

I have been following Pixie's advice since last week with daily 100% WC via a gravel vac, almost no substrate in the tank, changing the zeolite/carbon cartridge filter every 5-7 days according to my stock of them(hence why I haven't posted test results as there is no cycle to test). He is in a 1 gallon 'tank' on his own so I can keep him away from the main tank. I am not salting and I am not medicating(which looks like it is coming to the end of the cycle with no issues to report in there) so I am basically hoping that he cures himself and I am starting to believe there must be more I can do for him or get for him because at the moment I feel I am just keeping him comfortable

Any input from someone moe knowledgable than me would be greatly appreciated - I only check the forum about 20 times a night so if anyone wants to ask any questions I'm sure Speedy and I will be happy to answer them.

anyone at all?

I wouldn't classify myself as 'someone more knowledgeable' at all, but as far as I can see, keeping him comfortable is all you can do; as you said, he has to heal himself. One of the forum member's signature says it very well: "we are water keepers". Getting Speedy in a good environment is one of the most important steps to recovery.

On a side note: there seems to be somewhat of a lag (compared to normal Koko-standards at least, which are admittedly high) in reply time lately, possibly due to it being the summer holidays and all, but even so, don't worry: there is always one mod or another around who will reply to anything urgent.

I'll keep my fingers crossed for Speedy .

Gha! Sorry, hun - I've been so busy and haven't had much time on the board over the past week.

OK - next step. First, can we be sure that he is and has been ammonia and nitrite free for some time? If there is any amm or nite in the tank it will cause him to clamp and bottom sit. Let me know about your readings and how the levels have been over the past week.

It does sound as if he has an infection and possibly as a secondary to parasites (flukes are the usual suspects when there is nothing visible like whitespot, crustaceans or slime).

I'm going to suggest 2 things you might do:
Carolinedoodle is about to order a UK version of Prazi (which only comes in a pond sized treatment) and will have lots left over which she may be willing to sell in smaller amounts to desperate UK'ers! I would PM her or post on her thread to see if you can arrange this. Prazi is a fantastic, safe and effective treatment which can be run alongside zeolite but NOT carbon. So you should buy a bag of zeolite/ammo-chips to hang over the pump outlet, instead of your catridges which contain carbon. Carbon strips meds out of the water.

For bac infections, the only thing we can get over here is Bactopur Direct and sometimes Bakto Tabs (which are food pellets) This treatment is pretty strong and needs to be used in a tub as it kills any filter bacteria. It is about our only option over here.
Click here for bath treatment
http://www.reptilica.co.uk/Sera-baktopur-direct.phtml
Here for Tabs
http://www.reptilica.co.uk/search_result.php
If he is still eating I would certainly offer him the med food.

Let me know which one arrives first and we'll make a plan. Meanwhile, 100% W?C's every day and high vitC foods, such as cooked courgette, kiwi, broccoli etc, which helps boost immunity.

Thankyou Erinaceus, appreciate that. And I know you've not been about as much Pixie - just been getting really nervous for the past few days although better since his pineconing and swelling has gone down a bit although there is blatantly a problem with him still. I've been following Caroline's post for the past few days as well and gives us an option but I will give my LFS a call - they're actually quite good and see if they have anything you mentioned in stock as I could pick anythng up today seeing as I've sneaked off of work about 5 hours early! If they have what you suggest in stock, great. Failing that I'll order online today.

As I have been doing 100% WC's daily I haven't been monitering his readings, but, right now, 14 hours since his last change they are; Am - 0, Na - 50(aarrrrgggghhhhh -stay down ###### you!) and Ni - 0.3, Ph 7.5(same as tap) These reading have suprised me as I didn't expect to see this with the amount of changes I have been doing.

Since our last conversation, I have been feeding pretty much as usual with a fast day on Fridays, but have upped his veg intake of a pea to about 3 times a week... yesterday this made his waste look almost radioactive green!!

Thankyou so much for your help, hope I'm not being a pest. Just had to shout at my stepfather..."you'd be better off flushing him, I never used to change the water as much as you, you're spending more on meds than you paid for him etc etc..... [email="F@!K"]F@!K[/email] off!"

Ask as much questions as you need, it's what the forum is for . Wanting to know as much as possible about what you are doing and should need to do is exactly the kind of mindset that is preferred here .

I know what you mean, that some/most people don't seem to view goldfish as anything more than expendable .

It's crazy - as far as I'm concerned it doesn't matter if it's an ant, a mouse, a GF or an endangered species - if it's alive it's got feelings and deserves the best we can possibly give it. I don't mind asking questions, it was nice to be on the other side of the fence yesterday and help a new member out identifying her new fish which turned out to be a Dojo Loach - another favourite of mine - and give her some tips to get her pointing in the right direction.

By the way Erinaceus, been meaning to mention it for a while, but in your photo you look very much like Roberto Di Matteo the Ex Chelsea Football Player! http://www.chelseafc.com/javaImages/8/c/0,...~3410952,00.jpg

In the photo I can see the similarities in facial features that you're talking about. I don't know if that true in real life though (I wouldn't be the best judge at that) .

There's money to be made from a good look-a-like these days - consider a side career for some extra cash and extra tanks for extra fish

Not likeing what I see in the tank. Doing his bottom sitting again he's started to list over to one side which he has never done so far. Startled him now and he's swimming about. I've taken the cartridge and filter out as I think it might be past it and I can't get hold of any more - the lfs is out and didn't get any on their last delivery. I fear by the time I've sorted out payment for the bactopur and delivery he may be in some trouble.

OK - well, first....

Am - 0, Na - 50 and Ni - 0.3

I have tried to stress the importance of perfect water since the beginning of our thread; the type of stress created by a regular ammonia or nitrite presence stresses a fish so badly that they cannot fight infection or hope to recover; nitrate, too, of 50 after 14 hours is pretty up there! Ideally a tank shouldn't get this high even before the weekly change-out.
*So, you need to be doing 2 changes a day until getting some zeolite/ammo-chips.
*Test daily to be certain of the water readings.
*For now, leave the filter running with just the air tubing, even though you have removed the cartridge - the fish must have aeration.

As far as the Baktopur Direct is concerned, you will not find it in the lfs. The company I linked you to is German - we cannot get antibiotics here. (The B Direct is not exactly categorized as an anti-b but functions in a very similar way) You can get some Sera products here but I don't think that this particular one falls under the UK list of allowed treatments.
The lfs will try to sell you something containing a disinfectant or chemical dye which are the only things available here - do NOT buy anything they suggest; these things will not treat a bac infection and are likely to tip the fish over the edge.
The only thing you could try is what Carolinedoodle is doing, which is to add a reduced dose of Sterazin (waterlife products) to kill off any fluke load. This must be dilted with tank water first, then added very slowly into the path of an outflow pipe.

RULES to remember:
Carbon must be removed for treatments.
Zeolite must be used to control ammonia - meds + amm/nit are lethal.
Salt cannot be used with zeolite.

Don't worry - it's sinking in! My thinking for myself(for a change) had me doing most of what you suggested already. I had already done two big WC's today. As soon as I saw those readings the water was out in a flash I was just so suprised to see them so high with the daily WC's I've been doing. The change in the last six hours has been unbelievable since the removal of the cartridge which I am convinced just made it all worse(although I confess I had removed the whole system but the unit is back in now without the cartridge bubbling away like a good 'un). He's been perky, moving about the water nicely and more vigourously. His Dorsal is up more and his back fins have been less clamped and he's still pooing like a trooper on little food - bit long and stringy and still an unusual shade of green(no peas today either just a small small amount of tetra flake) but I'm thinking this may be evidence of his system's natural fighting of whatever it is so I hope that's at least a good sign of better things to come. Trying not to get too excited just in case its temporary but it gives me more confidence he can hold on till I get the meds here and it's always nice to feel better about them isn't it?!

You're absolutely right about them trying to sell other stuff and I can understand them trying it on but to be fair he said it wasn't the same sort of treatment. However, it's not what you suggested so I didn't bother and prefer to go with the judgement here. So tonight I set up a Paypal account and have to wait to get that going which could take several days. I haven't got a Credit card so that's a pain becuase I have both products you linked to in my basket waiting for me. I've e-mailed them to see if a direct bank transfer is possible and waiting on them so all in all I hope I'm following your guide as best as I can. Re the sterazin I would gladly try it if you think so but would it be better to see how he does over the next 24-48 hours with the preference for the meds on order as his treatment of choice even though it could be next week before they arrive?

Sleep well.

Oh the poor little fella he's at his lowest ebb so far. Had one of his two water changes for the day and all he can do is sit on the bottom lowly falling on to his side. It's all he can do to get himself upright every so often. Not even eating his food right in front of him.

At this point, keeping fish is NOT enjoyable. What a feeling of utter hopelesness.

Awww,poor guy. I have no advice but am keeping him in my prayers that he rallies.

I really hope he pulls through.

Thanks guys. Just hope the meds get here from Germany asap but it will probably be after the weekend.

Hi Pixie - hope you get this is the next few hours.

Is there ANYTHING that I can do for him while I wait for delivery of the meds. As far as I can tell they haven't even been dispatched yet so no chance of getting them till Tuesday at the earliest I presume. I still can't get any more cartridges so I have the filter without the cartridge pumping in as much air as it can deliver. He is getting 2 WC's a day usally 80%+ and a 100% last thing at night without fail. Tank is now barebottom too.

I can see the infections manifesting as fungus and red marks in at least 4 maybe 5 places including from the little sensory tufts on his snout(what are they called by the way?) and these have all developed in the last 12 hours or so. He is now constantly rolling onto his side at the bottom and can't do anything about it - although when he does his best to flash from the irritations he just rolls onto his other side. He isn't swimming at all, he isn't feeding at all either and his breathing is laboured. His poop is now completley clear and has been attached to him for hours.

He looks so sad but not half as sad as I feel.