Just wondering if there was a possibility that Fishy's bacterial infection is raising it's nasty head again. I noticed in the 1 gal that his poop resembled the food pellets I am feeding him. Since he has been back in the 12g, (3 days) I am having to net long white empty poop sacs from the tank. (tank is bare - completely) I read that it could be caused by stress. How long should I wait before I begin to worry.

What are the parameters on the 12 gallon? Have you seen a cycle bump? Is there ammonia and nitrite? If the poop is the only symptom I think that you can put this down to stress associated with changing tanks and possibly a cycle bump.

No bump. All the parameters are in the "perfect range". I've fed him peas, but even that hasn't helped. I'm going to give him a little broccoli tonight. I am just concerned. I don't want him getting sick on me again. How long will it take for him to poop normal again?

I think being in a 1 gallon tank is enough to give him stress poo. Is there any chance you can get him into something larger while you wait for cycling. Stress will bring disease with it otherwise

He's been in the 12g for 3 days now. That's why I got a little worried. His poo was fine in the 1g, but since he went back into the 12, (all water params perfect) he's had the empty poo sacs. I'll wait a few more days and see. Tonight he had his very first taste of steamed broccoli. I thought he was going to eat my fingers along with it. LOL He definately still has an appetite. I'll post again if it doesn't get any better in a couple of days.

Oh I see . Well give him a few more days- watching the water params.

Elvis (Fishy's new name) is beginning to flash and yawn again. I did Prazi everyday for 4 days, 1 day off, everyday for 3 days, 2 days off, then a final treatment of prazi. It's been 5 days since the last prazi treatment. Do I have to start this treatment all over again?

Water parameters are NitrI 0 NitrA 20 (doing 50% wc now), amm 0 ph 8.2, temp 80, salt @ 1.5%. Salt has been at 1.5 since June 27, before that he was at 2% for two weeks.

Now what? Start over? Raise the salt to 3%? Start Prazi again?

His color is lightening again. His slimecoat doesn't feel heavy or thick. He is pooing, tho not the greatest, and he is going and grabbing air much more often.

I await further notice.

Urg... I am sure you are frustrated! Please await further advice from Trinket or Pixie, but you may need to continue with prazi. In particularly resistant cases of flukes you need to stick with treatment for 3-4 weeks.

Also, I am wondering whether you ought to either clear the salt out of your water or bring it up to a full medicinal dose of 0.3%. At a certain point salt becomes a source of stress rather than a tonic, but it doesn't have its full parasite-eradicating benefit at a level lower than 0.3%. So salt has been at 0.15% for about a month, at 0.2% for two weeks before that, right? Have you ever done 0.3% salt? That might be necessary in case Trinket or Pixie think that Elvis' symptoms might be caused by another parasite.

I'm not gonna really talk to much else, but my goldies were piping a lot when my water got to 80 degrees. I put a fan on the water surface, got it to drop to 72 and they totally stopped that. So, the hot water could be causing that..... just a thought....

That's what I am wondering. Lynda also has a point with the high temps, but I don't have a fan or access to one except our ceiling fans. Can't leave the lid off either cause of the cats and cat hair. (Small house + 4 cats + high temps = heavy shedding) I could turn the ac down to 72, but I think my hubby would have a fit. I have it at 80/77 night/day now and he is not happy w/ electric bill. :/

I've taken 6 gallons out and I'm not sure what to put back in. Salt, no salt, keep same... Add Prazi, yes. Conditioners, yes. Salt? That's the question.

Hey Roni. I've got no advice, but just chiming in to let ya know I am keeping up as always and hope the best for Fishy/Elvis.. This is so frustrating after all you've been through. Good luck with everything... : ) Hang in there!

At this point I would replace the water without salt. You can always add it back if it is warranted.

Are you confident that you've kept track of salt in/salt out? A month is a long time to maintain salt records -- is there any chance that there is more salt in there than you think? Too much salt can sometimes cause flashing and yawning.

Same amount every water change. I use a 2 gal fresh water only canister. I add in 1 tbsn of aquarium salt in and stir until mixed with 1/4th tsps of both detoxers. That way it's always the same going in as what I have taken out. I already put the salt in this two gallon batch. Should I go ahead and use this with 4 gal nonsalt? Or dump it and stick with 6 gal no salt?

Roni~ at this point it would be really helpful to have an update on what Elvis (haha, hope that wasn't on acount of the flashing ) has actually been through re-meds.
I know at one point we suggested Jungle medicated food. Did you run that course?

Salt has been at tonic low levels for how many weeks?

Prazi was administered for total how many weeks? Including breaks.

Did you ever get that airstone fixed in? Warm water can cause excitability (and eventually lethargy) if there is not enough DO. Splash from the filter on the waters surface will do.

So if you could just get back on these points that'd be great.

I know at one point we suggested Jungle medicated food. Did you run that course?

Yes. Full 10 days on anti bacteria, only 1- 4 day treatment w/ anti parasite. I started the Prazi on the 5th day and was told that I didn't need to continue with the jungle anti parasite w/ prazi pro.

Salt has been at tonic low levels for how many weeks?

Almost 4 weeks, 6 weeks total on salt.

Prazi was administered for total how many weeks? Including breaks.

Prazi started 16 days ago, last dose 5 days ago. 11 days from 1st dose to day of last dose.
Day 1 - Did a 100% water change, removed all gravel and filter medium in 12g, then added clean water, parazi and salt back into the 12g. The filter and the gravel went into a 22g tub filled with water and a triple dose of prazi.
Day 2 - After 12 hours, I put the filter medium back into the 12g and added a small portion of the gravel back into the 12g and put the rest of the gravel in the 29 along with all the plastic plants. I then did a 50% water change in the 12g by putting 4 gallons into the 29g and (after testing to make sure all the parameters were good) I set aside 2 gallons for Fishy's water changes in the 1g. I changed 1/2 gal of fishy's 1g tank, and set the other 1.5 gallons off to the side to do three more half gal water changes for that day. I then added in another dose of Prazi into the 12g and made sure the salt was replaced too. I also use AmQuel AND NovAqua EVERY time I do a water change.
Day 3 - Removed 1 gal of water from the 12g, changed .5 in Fishy's 1g, and set aside the other half gal for later. I then did a 50% water change in the 12g, by putting 4 more gallons into the 29g and dumping another gallon on my lawn. I replaced the water, resalted and rePrazi'd the 12g. That same afternoon after the water was clear and warmed to the same temp as the 1g, I removed a gal of the water for Fishy's changeout in the 1g and left the tank alone.
Day 4 - I did no water change in the 12g. I removed 2 gallons to do Fishy's flushes and that's all.
Days 5, 6, and 7 - same as day 3
Day 8, 9, 10- same as day 4. Day nine morning - Fishy put back in 12g. No water change, no prazi
Day 11 - 50% wc, 1.5% salt, 1/2 tsp prazi.
Today - 60% water removal, no water added back in yet.

Did you ever get that airstone fixed in? Warm water can cause excitability (and eventually lethargy) if there is not enough DO. Splash from the filter on the waters surface will do.

it's a 12g, and I have been keeping only 10 gal in it so the filtered water falls further. I didn't want to add the stone back in since it might have flukes from the QT tank.

This made me laugh! I must remember that. The fish toilet flush- I suppose that is really what a water change is after all

Really, it sounds like you are doing fine with him. I seriously doubt that the flukes are back. I think you have done a good course. Having said that one more round of prazi cannot hurt. Perhaps you should remove all the salt now via some larger 'flushes' and do a final prazi course. Notice how he is with no salt..

You have run a fair few meds and whats left is good cycled water- no stress- good food- for 100% healing I think.

How is Elvis' thyroid area problem looking?

It's still there. I'll try to get a pic tonight and post it so you can see when you get home from work. Thanx for putting my mind at ease. I was stressing. ::hanging head:: I always tell my kids not to worry until you have something to worry about, and then here I go.... LOL

Thanx and I'll post in a few days with how he is without the salt. I do a four gallon no salt tonight, that will take it down to less than 1 %, and I do another 4 tomorrow and then a 60 on the 3rd. I think by the fourth day, I can do a 100% change without shocking him. Or can it be done faster than that?

roni, if you don't want to use the airstone since yer worried about flukes, another way to get your water circulating is a small powerhead or submersible air pump thing like the hydor ario.

Since the tank is only 12g though it may be difficult to fit these things into your tank... if all else fails, you can use your current air pump (if it's strong enough), and get one of those split heads and put in two airstones off that one pump. That might also get your water moving.

Hi Trinket ~~~

Sorry I didn't get the pics posted last night. My camera battery was dead, so I had to put it on the charger.

I just finished uploading 10 new pics of him, from July 19th and today. It's on the same pages as the original pics I uploaded back when he first got sick. They are further down the page. All the pics can be found here: http://s289.photobucket.com/albums/ll202/ebonezum/

Here are a few I thought would be good for you to see right away. It seems like it's actually getting bigger again. ::sigh::




The next couple are from june 9, before the prazi.

You have fed Jungle and you have done your course of prazi. I am beginning to wonder if this isn't an internal benign tumor of some sort, not un-common as the fish gets older. Pond fish have many of these growths.

How is he behaving now? No flashing any more is good- how about bottom sitting/eating/poop?

No bottom sitting. Full board hungry. Fed him a little steamed broccoli and thought he was going to eat my fingers too.

He has been "dragging" the surface more than usual and dragging air down to let it go. Today is the 5th day after the last prazi treatment and the params are fine. (dragging: a term I use to describe a gf swimming around with his mouth at the surface. Almost like he was skimming for food.)

His poo is still showing pretty empty, tho there is a little poo in them now. He used to produce earth worm size ones. He did when he was on the bacterial food. but not since he has been off of it.

The lump was always white translucent before, now it looks like it is turning black inside his mouth. It's black in the new swelled area, toward the front. You can see it in one of the pics above. I was thinking of trying to get a short video of him in my hand being lifted out of the water. Maybe we can see something if I can get close enough to see inside. I have to hold him left handed because it's a right hand camera. I also have to use the brine shrimp net because he still won't let me hold him or catch him very easily. He wiggles too much. Do you think this is a good idea? My camara has a pasm setting, but I don't know where the instruction book is.

I'm not even going to try to give any treatment input, but I just wanted to let you know that I'm here reading and listening and supporting. Hugs!

Trinket,
Here is the response you wanted. I thought it would be better as the last post. BTW, he seems to be scratching at the uptake tube. He's swimming between the tube and the glass, He has never done that before. Just started today. (Yesterday actually, it's early am for me right now.) Still "piping" as Lynda calls it.

Trinket,

I guess you have been pretty busy, but some new info came to light aand I thought a piece of my other thread here and see what you think.



Elvish makes pea soup in his tank when I feed him peas. They were uncooked. Acupunk says it might be very loose stools from feeding him 2 peas as one time. Let me know if this is part of the poo problem on this thread ok. If it is, then it's just the growth and his flashing. He doesn't flash when prazi is in the tank, but the 5th or 6th day after the prazi treatment, he will begin flahing again, and now he has developed the habit of swimming between the uptake tube and the glass. Could this be to scratch?
His tank is 100% bare except the filter/carbon/biowheel set up. As soon as I can find some PP (have looked into all the local places that were suggested by others in the tank forum. My hardware stores/department stores don't carry it. I'm down to calling fish stores now.) he will be getting a moss ball to play with.

I will await your reply with "baited" breath.

Video, just didn't work, tho I will post it at the end of this so you can at least try to see something. I did get a few photos that might show what my concerns are about.

Besides the black that started under his chin and is now starting to show up on the inside of his cheeks.



His gills are darkening again and are beginning to become noticable again.




The growth is definately getting larger. It's beginning to look just like it did back in April when all this started.





And the red patches are starting to get darker. They aren't red yet, but they are def. darker.





I hope these help.

Besides all of the above, his color is fading on his sides and he is yawning alot again and he is starting to act weird again. Still not bottom sitting tho. Does it look like his chest is swollen or is that just my imagination?

Pixiefish posted this in response to the post I made earlier today.




I don't know what to do now. I am beginning to worry about him again.

I know you are worried hun . Its a worry when fish behave differently but I still dont think we have 911 here. I'm going to link you to Uberleslies thread that shows pics of her fish and how the same grey patches, piping, red spots, missing scales and loose skin all in the end went back to water issues which you are slowly learning about and correcting just as she did. The nitrogen cycle is what its all about with fish and its very important to follow a cycle with test kits and testing the water daily so that you know the peak danger points and can address them one at a time. If you had ammonia during the prazi treatment for example that would have produced the red spots.

You have done a huge long course of prazi. Time to finish that. You have done salt, time to finish that. You have fed Jungle food.

Your fish lives alone and you do not have any other tanks from which transfer of bacteria or parasites is possible. All the symptoms on your fish (except the lump) are what I call wear and tear. Its very stressful for fish to move tanks/to be medicated/ to have change-except water change- in their lives. The affect stress has on the osmotic ability of fish to flush toxins is HUGE. Experts like Noga believe stress and disease in fish are inseparable, I agree. Stress certainly can cause diarrohea and strange poo too.

The lump.

I have to say I am stumped here. Im sorry I just dont have a 100% sure answer about it. It could be a benign growth. You said it had turned black inside? This black could be from meds or ammonia. I cannot imagine this lump is still related to parasites because of the intensive prazi treatment. I even doubt its bacterial at this point. It could be viral- related to stress.Each time stress is experienced the lump returns or increases in size. That would be my guess right now.

You should focus on removing stress. Sustained good water conditions and a nutritious diet. Its not a cop out, it is everything for fish. Medication knocks immunity, you need to build it up.

PS Sorry not to get back fast on the PM, trying to find a house. Seems nothing is quite right, school district/rooms/price etc..very frustrating.