That's about it.

Can you guys suggest a sinking pellet that stays together, does not make a big mess, or cloud the water.

I'm going to be running barebottom with a lot of flow, and see no sense in cleaning food out of the filter fluff in the sump.

http://www.dainichi.com/goldfish_food.html

There are lots of very good sinking goldfish pellets that do not cloud the water. But if you are only going to feed ONE food, you cannot go wrong with Goldfish Connection's ProGold.

http://www.goldfishconnection.com/shop/det...=2&catId=14

Yep and as long as you dont add to much when feeding it doesnt cloud the tank, I put about 2-3 pellets for each fish and feed them two times a day, this way they dont crumble in the tank and wont cloud it either

daryl, you and I must not be reading the same threads.
I've read too many posts saying you can't pre-soak Progold, cause it falls apart and turns to mush.
If it mushes out that fast, it's going to make a huge mess in my tank.

Thanks Acupunk, I'll check that food out.

You dont need to soak Pro-gold, I dont soak it anymore I used to but by the time it hits the bottom of the tank all the air is out of the pellets

I haven't felt the need to soak the Pro-Gold I feed. And it only clouded the water when I fed waaaay too much.

I've never had any problems with ProGold falling apart or clouding the water. Maybe my guys just eat it too fast for it to get a chance to,lol. I rotate with Omega One Sinking Goldfish Pellets,Omega One Shrimp Pellets,Omega One Veggie Rounds,Hakari Lionhead and New Life Spectrum Goldfish Formula. Not had a problem with any of it.
Kathy

I'm not going to pre-soak any pellets.

If soaking them makes them fall apart and mush out, I can only imagine what goldfish would do to them eating, chewing, and making a mess with their food like goldfish do.
This is going to be a 10ft tank. I'm not going to be able to hand feed like some 10gal.

No thank you.

Formula 1 pellets do not mush out.

I just asked a simple question, does any one know of a pellet that does not mush out?

I would agree with other posters that ProGold is a dense food that does not get mushy or cloud the water. Perhaps if you were to soak it for ten minutes, it would. I don't know about your fish, but food generally does not stay around that long in my tank. BTW, Daryl is one of the most experienced goldfish keepers around here. She is not advising you on the basis of threads she has read, but on first-hand experience.

But I do prefer the Dainichi food I posted the link to in my first response to your inquiry. It is a firm pellet, sinks well, and had a glossy coating that probably makes it more resistant to mushiness than other foods. I find that it is less apt to cause constipation than ProGold. If you are planning on keeping single tailed fish you probably won't have a problem with that one way or another.

I didn't say anything about feeding one food.
I didn't say I was going to soak them first.

I have been making and using gel foods for many decades.

I'm familiar with most foods out there and actually would prefer Spectrum, but it mushs out too.

I'm just asking if anyone knows of a sinking pellet, that holds together, that I can use as just a basic food?

Umm... perhaps I am inferring a tone that you don't intend, but why are you being so cantankerous about this?

Because we don't know you, we don't know your level of experience with goldfish. Those of us who remember your inquiry about Bristol Shubunkins would assume that you have some know-how with fish (given that you have a very large tank), but we also know that keeping and feeding goldfish is quite different from keeping and feeding marine fish.

I think we got off on the soaking track because you keep referring to mushiness. I think people are saying that most pellet foods will only get mushy IF you soak them, which we understand that you are not intending to do.

People around here are very friendly and will be happy to offer any advice that you ask for... IF you don't jump all over them and argue when they try to help.

I'm not being cantankerous, I'm not jumping all over anyone, and I'm not arguing.

You guys are the ones that are doing that, and your post is a prefect example of it.

I just asked a simple question.
When I did not get an answer, when people did not read what I wrote, when people read too much into what I wrote....

.....I took the time to explain even more.

It's a simple question.

Is there a good basic pellet that holds together, that sinks, that does not turn to mush, that very large goldfish will not make a total mess out of in a barebottom tank, that I can run by the tank and feed them something right when I come in the door from work, that I won't have to sit through dinner and look at a totally crapped out tank, that I can feed them something better after I have dinner when I have more time, that I won't have to sit through dinner feeling guilty cause they are hungry and begging, that won't end up in the sump in the filter fluff making a huge mess and causing nitrates to go sky high, that will stay together all the way to their stomach?

How's that?

It's a very simple question.

And I gave you a very simple answer -- way back in post #2.

Great. I hope that you're pleased with it.

We will anxiously await photos of your crystal clear, clean, crud-free shubie tank.

I'll look into the Dainichi and let you know.

I'm used to running barebottom systems, this one will be easy to run.

I have never had a quality food pellet foul the water, soaked or not. I do not soak the food, normally, though. I feed gel food nearly all the time - incorporating any food that I have that is not sinking, as well as many other sources of nutrition. I often use ProGold, among other things, when I need a quick easy food to feed to adult fish. ProGold also comes in a larger pellet for the larger fish - and it works well for my larger fish.

I stand by my answer. ProGold is an easily obtained, excellent food pellet that provides all around nutrition for goldfish. When fed as you describe, it will not "mush out" and foul the water.

The Dainichi is also a great food.....as are a number of other possibilities. I am sure others can come up with some of their faces.

Hikari make some really nice, high protien foods for fish, too. I have never had any of their food foul the water, either.

You will find that there are many many fish keepers here with lifetimes of experience. We have a wide variety of experiences - with foods, fish, equipment, etc. Just as many different fish keepers have different likes and dislikes in fish, we all have our choices for food and filters and tanks and water parameters and.... you name it.

We cannot read your mind. All we can do is recommend what we, ourselves, use/like. Please keep in mind that we are trying to help/befriend anyone who comes here.

daryl, it's not necessary for you to stand by your answer. I was not challenging you.

When you suggested ProGold, I said that I have read, on this forum, where people have tried to soak the ProGold pellets, and the pellets have fallen apart and turned to mush.
I don't want that kind of pellet for obvious reasons that I have stated. No need to read my mind, I keep saying the same thing over and over.

I'll try the Dainichi

I did post this but maybe I wasn't clear on my answer. I do not pre-soak any of the pellets listed above and I have not had a problem with any of them turning to mush or clouding the water. The Veggie Rounds will mush up if not eaten by morning when I put them in at night. Hope this is a bit more to the point.
Kathy

If you live in America it is

The new food I tried this morning did not cooperate *some Dutch mumbling*

Charm school, anyone?

I occasionally feed my fry ProGold pellets that I do presoak. I left them sitting for about 30 mins (I forgot about them), and when I finally did get them into the tank, they still did not become mushy, break up, or cloud the water. Of course, because the fry are small they made a mess of them, pulling bits and pieces off-- but with an adult fish they would swallow them up without issue.

I frequently drop in a pinch of ProGold pellets for my 4 adult goldfish without problem. I see them in the tank all the time-- turned into poop.

I think I have to admit that I did get a batch of large size ProGold, once, that was somehow softer than normal. It was rather crumbly - and it did seem to dissolve into a pile of mess on the bottom of the tank if it was not eaten within a few minutes. I was quite dissappointed in it - and just dumped it into a batch of gel food next time I made gel. The JumpStart that came with it on that particular shipment was, also, too soft. I think that it was an aberration, though - for I have had dozens of batches since and have never had a bad one again.

Perhaps the people who had difficulties with the PRoGold got a batch that was from that one - or one similar. It was a pain to use.

I'm going to try their Cichlid Food - Veggie Delux.

Not as low in protein as I was looking for but better than anything else I've found, and it's low in fiber.

I am interested to know why you are seeking a low-protein food -- is it because of nitrates?

In a round about way, yes.

It's stupid to feed a fish higher protein than they can use, they will just pass it out.

Then you are only feeding aerobic bacteria, that also breathe, eat, and poop. That are also living things in the system that the system has to support. That place a higher demand on oxygen, and consume carbon placing a higher demand on your buffer and reducing your alk and lowering your pH. Not to mention putting a higher demand on your filtration.

This is not a 10gal tank that I can mix a 5gal bucket of water and do a 50% water change. A 50% water change will only reduce nitrates 50%.

This is a 500gal tank.

A 50% water change is 250gal.

How many shubunkins do you intend to house in your tank?

At least with a fresh water set-up your water changes will be less complicated. I am just starting out with a small FOWLR salt water set-up and am finding that it is a lot more hassle to make water changes when you have to mix up salt in the replacement water. With my 75 gallon goldfish tank it is easy to make 50-75% water changes using a hose directly from the tap with Prime added to the tank. But 250 gallon 50% water changes would start being reflected in your water bill pretty quick.

It will be interesting to see how shubunkins compare with other fish that you have kept as far as their waste output is concerned.

I plan on having 5-6, 6-8" fish this spring, and 5-6, 10-12" fish next year.

Do not skimp on a good skimmer. Because of proteins ability to foam in salt water, a good skimmer will take all of that out for you.

Our water changes will be about the same. I will condition the water, buffer and adjust pH, ahead of time and pump it into the tank slowly.

It's going to be even more interesting when you see how little goldfish eat, poop and pee, compared to saltwater fish.
Saltwater fish have much higher metabolisms, drink a whole lot more water to maintain their internal equilibrium.

Huh... that sure hasn't been my experience.

I have kept equal numbers of goldfish and saltwater fish in exactly the same size tank with exactly the same size filter. I find that the goldfish require much more frequent water changes in order to keep the water parameters acceptable.

Every "fish person" I have spoken to (including people who set up and maintain tanks for a living, as well as a marine biologist at the local university) agrees that goldfish produce more waste than other fish.

Can't be like for like punk.

Not many people keep live rock and live sand in goldfish tanks or use skimmers, and most marine fish food is a much higher quality than goldfish food.
Chemolithic autotrophs, nitrifying bacteria, are magnitudes more efficient in saltwater too. That one thing alone will keep it from being like for like. Nitrogen reduction, nitrate, is magnitudes more efficient in saltwater and most people specifically set up their saltwater tanks to do that.

I have no experience, personally, with saltwater, but those I talk with also say that goldies top them all for waste production.

I have had far better luck with my Bristols when feeding high protien. I get bigger fish, the tails do not fall as so many are wont to do, and I win shows with them. My youngsters/fry are on a high protien diet of bloodworms, brine shrimp, spiriliana and other goodies. They are powerful, large and beautiful. At only 10 months of age, they are 3-4 inches long (including that gorgeous "B" tail standing strong). The Shubies get as high protien as the Mita do.... and are doing excellently on it.

Well ding-a-ling ;-) why don't you sell me some! You know I'm going to take great care of them and you know they are going to have a great place to live.
And you know, if anything happens, you can have them back if you need them.

I'm not looking for a low protein food to feed them, exclusively. Like I said, I'm just looking for a food that I can give them when I run in the door from work, so I don't feel guilty while they stare at me the rest of the evening. And a food that won't totally crap out the tank, so the family can eat dinner and watch them without seeing a tank full of crap. LOL

After dinner, I'll have time to really spoil them with all kinds of different foods and gels.

I have both and I can tell you that goldfish are much harder than saltwater tanks. My salt water tank is a coral and fish tank and heck of alot easier to take care of than my goldfish tank.
But the thing is goldfish dont have a true stomach like other fish, so if you feed them a big meal no matter if its low protein or high it comes out the other end fast. Small meals and big water changes are the key to healthy fish

I am just working with a small set of Shubies. I finally got a line that is supposed to hold their tails to adulthood.... and need the ones I have for starting my own line. When I get it going, I expect I shall have extras, but, at this time, am really counting on each and every fish I have.

Sorry.....

daryl, I understand completely. For years I was doing the same thing with clownfish, Nemos.

koko, set you goldfish tank up the same way you have your reef tank set up. Or, set your reef tank up the same way you have your goldfish tank.
Of course reef tanks are easier.

Here is a very simple answer. Try this...... TetraFin Gold Japan.



P.S. you do come across as cantankerous.

LOL I guess having to explain something over and over can make you look that way.

Spanky, is that available in the US? the Japan part makes it look like it might not be \

EDIT: I don't think it is. I goggled it and could only find it in the UK.

Well that would be alittle strange

My saltwater tank has a Skimmer and 2 power heads. I know that goldfish dont need skimmers and the power heads would blow my goldfish all over the place. Also it needs more light than the goldfish.

Now my goldfish tank has 3 massive filters on it and the saltwater doesnt need that much and a UV system. So a long story short you cant treat them the same.

Hands down Goldfish are the hardest fish to take care of, and need more special care

"done"

I said "reef tanks are easier"

You're running a "protein" skimmer - foam fractionator - to remove proteins - to reduce nitrogenous compounds and powerheads to get the waste to the skimmer.
You're promoting the growth of algae.
You're using live rock to process nitrogenous compounds and possibly a sand bed.

and, all of the bacteria you need - work a whole lot better in saltwater.

For the very reason that wet/dry filters went out of favor when people started keeping "reef tanks".
Wet/drys act just like the filters you have on the goldfish tank. They trap nitrogenous waste - in a high flow area - and cause it to break down faster and create even more and higher nitrates. Just like the filters you are using on the goldfish.

If there was some way to run a goldfish tank like a reef tank, it would be easier too. But the mechanics of fresh water are working against you.

Ahhh, it might not be available in the US. BUT...... (and i assure you this is a genuine offer) If you give me $5.00 (that will cover postage and the food itself) and an address I will send you a pot (all the way from the UK). It is good stuff, I use it.

Okay, I am really confused here.

It seems as if everyone (including you) is agreeing that salt water tanks are easier to maintain than goldfish tanks (due to live rock/sand, protein skimmers, increased efficiency of nitrifying bacteria in saltwater, etc.) Yet I read your message above as sort of saying "just you wait..." regarding the maintenance that will be required of my new saltwater set-up. Perhaps I am misunderstanding your statement above?

Is this a flake or pellet food? Does it float or sink?

I would like to know more about it too (I am becoming a collector of goldfish foods as well as goldfish -- I must have at least eight different bottles/bags in my cabinet!)

It is sinking pellet.....

A new addition to the Gold range specially formulated for exotic and fancy goldfish.

TetraFin Gold Japan – for excellent health and condition in fancy goldfish

Specifically formulated for fancy goldfish, such as Orandas, Lionheads, Black Moors, Ryukins, Fantails etc.

High content of premium quality vegetable ingredients and wheatgem to maintain excellent condition and reduce metabolic disorders.

Sinking sticks to reduce air-intake during feeding helping to avoid swimbladder related problems.

Rich in high quality proteins and colour-enhances for improved performance and colour

New high performance sinking pellets.

Extruded pellets for excellent digestion

High protein/oil content (hydrolysed proteins).

Rich in colours.

Interesting -- it seems that Tetra has quite a line of goldfish foods in the UK. There is Gold Colour, Gold Growth, Gold Exotic, and Gold Japan. Is Tetra a British company, or do they just perceive that there are more people in the UK who are serious about goldfish?

When buying fish food from a large company like Tetra, I always wonder how much time elapses between when the food is manufactured and when I buy it. With ProGold and Dainichi I have more confidence that the stuff is being made in small batches a few weeks before my purchase.

Have you seen positive results of this food with your fish?

I don't know whether to call you Acu, or punk. I don't like punk, so is Acu ok?

I was talking specifically about fish. Comparing saltwater 'fish' to gold'fish'.
Not comparing reef tanks to goldfish tanks, or different ways of filtering tanks.

You said you were setting up a 'fish only with live rock'. Right there, you are not setting up a typical goldfish tank and you are not setting up the same tank. You don't set up a goldfish tank with live rock for bacterial filtration and nitrogenous compound reduction.

To compare apples to apples, set up a saltwater fish tank, filtered the same way you have your goldfish.
Add an angel, tang, wrasse - whatever - same age and body mass as your goldfish.
Feed them the exact same food, the same amount.

Which tank do you think will have nitrates go through the roof and off the charts first?

You guys are forgetting the most important thing - osmoregulation.

Saltwater fish have to drink a lot of water to maintain their internal specific gravity - salinity.
Because of that they pee a whole lot more than fresh water fish.
Because of that, they expel a whole lot more amino acids, ammonia, nitrogenous compounds.




Spanky, thank you!
I have someone that sends me flubendazole from the UK now. If he can't send it, I'll take you up on that offer.
Thank you again!

No problem at all. Just PM me about it, if and when, and we can sort out addresses and stuff.

Kristen is fine. Acupunk is a reference to my profession -- I am an acupuncturist.