Maybe it's my impatience speaking... but, I'm just curious; what is the average amount of time for a fishless cycle to complete? I started from scratch with pure ammonia, prime and stability about 2 weeks ago and there has been absolutely no changes in my levels.

cycling is soooo fun...I know where you are coming from !! my 55 took FOREVER!!!!!!...what are the readings now and what is the temp ..(cooler temps take longer )..bigger tanks take longer ..there are so many factors ..what is your kh??? ...a low kh can effect a cycle as well ..

It's a 29 gallon tank. Ammonia: 2.0, Nitrite: 0, Nitrate: 0, Temp: 80F. Initially, the Ammonia reading was at 4.0. Not sure about my KH, but the PH has been fluctuating from 8, 7.4, and 7.8. It's never quite the same when I test, which is pretty frequently. Although, I hear that's normal when cycling...

do you add ammonia everyday to your tank? You should keep the ammomia level at ~ 5ppm until the nitrite shows up. When the nitrite shows up, you have to keep the ammonia level ~ 2ppm. The nitrite level will get to ~5ppm and later will drop down.

No, I don't add it regularly... I followed the directions from here: http://www.kokosgoldfish.com/FishlessCycle.html

However, I do add Stability once per week though which adds beneficial bacteria.

ok I would test ph right out of the tap ...I would get a kh test kit.. it is what stablelizes you ph ..but you want to know what your starting with from the tap ..does it start high then low ???..or does it start low then climbs ???? if it starts high than goes low ..I would be concerned .. (I don't know the details so I hope someone will chime in to cross my t's and dot my i's) i belive low kh stulls out a cycle .. most people with low kh have problems getting the nitrites on the board ..2 weeks into the cycle you should be seeing nitrItes ..I think anyways ..I don't have all the answeres but I hope I gave you place to start ..I hope someone will chime in that has way more experience and answeres...good luck

Thanks for your help, Hi-d! Well, the PH started off at 8, then dropped to 7.4, then jumped up to 8, then went back down to 7.8, and is now back at 7.4. I found my old test strips which have KH & GH on them. Based on those readings the KH is 80 and GH is 75. I also tested tap water, and the results were consistent. Oh, and still Ammonia at 2.0, 0 Nitrites, 0 Nitrates.

Any ideas and/or suggestions?

Sorry to be such a pest, but I'm just wondering if anyone has any ideas about what's going on here. I tested my water again last night and still no changes and it's been almost 3 weeks...

Hi Desiree!

It's odd that after three weeks, your ammonia is still at two with no nitrites. A possibly stupid question, but are you sure you used the right type of ammonia, with no additives? I bought ammonia from Ace Hardware - their brand - and it worked fine. Took a while, but it worked.
The ammonia went from 4 down to 2, and seems to have stalled. Your KH seems to be decent, and a fluctuating pH can be normal. Since it does go back up, I don't think it's a big concern right now.
I would bring the ammonia back up to 4 and see what happens. Maybe a new burst of ammonia will trigger the nitrosomonas into action!

Give that a try, and let us know how it went!

Debbie

Hi -- I know how frustrating that can be -- I just finished spending 12 WEEKS cycling my 75 gallon.

If I were you I would try to see if you can bump up your KH to at least 100. Strips are so inaccurate and the fact that your pH bounces around would tend to suggest that your KH is perhaps lower than 80. With an adequate KH your pH should be rock solid. You could either use crushed coral in your filter or get Buff it Up from Goldfish Connection. The first step would probably be to get a drop-type KH/GH test so that you can monitor your KH.

The other thing to think about is how much biomedia do you have in your filter? My tank finally cycled after I added a 300 gph canister filter full of nothing but biomedia (almost 3 liters of it). I used Seachem Matrix, but you could use any type of ceramic rings or stars or whatever. Put them in net bags and stuff them in any available space in your filter.

Personally I think that Stability can be a useful product, but I think that you need to use more than the label says. On my 75 gallon I used double the dose that the label calls for during initial set up every day for 4-5 days. You can't really overdose it.

Good luck!

Yep, just plain old ammonia... no additives. I think that might be a good idea to add more! I think I will add some more ammonia to try to give things a boost!




Yes! I think I'm gonna go to the store to get the API GH/KH drop tests... I totally agree and don't rely too heavily on the strips. I will order Buff it Up tonight so hopefully that will help!




I have a Penguin filter on a Seaclear tank. It barely fits on the tank as it is. There are four filter cartridges in it right now with very little room to add additional media. But, I will see if I can stuff some bio-stars or something in there...



Hahha! Funny you mention it, I read your post about double dosing the Stability and went straight to my tank and triple dosed. I hope that helps this process along!

Thanks so much for all the wonderful suggestions! I will post back in a couple days the status and in the mean time pray that it is cycling!!!

How come you have so many filter cartridges in there? If you have to choose between the carbon-filled cartridges and extra room for bio-media, I would choose the bio-media. Filter floss and carbon will house beneficial bacteria, but not nearly as much as an equivalent volume of ceramic rings or bio stars. Can you take out two of the cartridges and fill that space with bio-media in net bags?

I figured it was additional room for beneficial bacteria to grow. But, I think you're right. I will take the additional two out and add some media in bags.

Quick question... will taking out the extra cartridges set back my cycle since there probably is some beneficial bacteria on them?

Just tested my water again and there was little to no changes. The nitrite test looked a little bit more purple, but not enough to see a definite 0.25. So, as recommended I added more ammonia to bring the levels back up to 4.0. Oh, and I also added more Stability... I have ordered two bags of little ceramic tubey looking things to place in my filter and will take out the 2 extra cartridges at that time. I also ordered Buff it Up! to stabilize my KH and PH. Man, this thread should have been titled: Desiree vs. the Fishless Cycle.

When you remove the cartridges to replace them with ceramic rings, you could wipe any goop from the cartridge onto the net bags that you're keeping the rings in. While I was cycling my aquarium I changed all the cartridges in my filters (a total of four cartridges) and it didn't seem to set me back.

Even the slightest change of the nitrite test from the aqua blue to the purplish blue is a good sign. Intially there will be just a small change like that, then all of a sudden it will change quickly. The bacteria are multiplying -- 10, 100, 10,000, 10,000, 100,000,000, 10,000,000,000,000,000 -- it starts off slow but then quickly gathers steam.

Just you wait -- now you are praying for purple on the nitrite test -- pretty soon you will be wishing and hoping for aqua blue again!

There really isn't any visible goop on the cartridges. I have an idea... would it be okay to place the two cartridges directly in the tank while it's cycling to not lose any beneficial bacteria?



So true! I remember those days of battling nitrites, praying for 0!!!

So happy! I finally am seeing some nitrites. I think the additional ammonia and Stability worked. I'm leaving on vacation and will be gone for ten days, maybe when I get back (crosses fingers!) my tank will have cycled!!! Thanks everyone for all your help and suggestions!

Congratulations on your nitrites!!!
I hope you have a great vacation! How great if your cycle finished while you were gone! Just be sure to test it by adding more ammonia when you get back (about 1 - 2 ppm I would think) because if it has cycled while you were away, it may have gone without any food (ammonia) for a few days.

Good luck, and have a safe trip!!!

Debbie

Thanks!!! Yeah, I think I'm going to test my parameters before I go and add some extra Ammonia just to be on the safe side. I've got a friend cat sitting while I'm away (she's a vet tech) so I might trust her to add a bit mid week to be on the safe side. Thanks so much for all your help (and patience!) with me as I have been quite frustrated lately with this prolonged fishless cycle!

Well, I have returned from vacation and am still battling the fishless cycle (from you know where!). When I returned I added a stronger airpump, placed one filter cartridge directly in the tank, filled the space with a bag of ceramic rings and added a TON of Stability, as well as Buff it Up to bring up my KH levels.

As it is today, ammonia has dropped down to 0 (was at 2 two days ago), nitrites are at 2 (was at 5 two days ago), nitrates are at 5-10. What I'm curious about is, my ammonia and nitrites both dropped in the last two days, but my nitrates have remained constant at what I interpret as 8, on the API chart. Is that okay? Shouldn't the nitrates increase as the nitrites decrease?

Also, I added a very small amount of ammonia, for fear of losing the cycle and added some more ceramic rings to the filter. So far so good?

We're having a "heat wave" here in Seattle and my tank temperature is reading at 84F, could this damage/ stall the cycle? Is there anything else I can do to speed this process along? I'm afraid I'm going to mess this up... this cycle has been two months in the making!

Any recommendations out there would be greatly appreciated!

Do you have any algae or plants in the fishless tank, that might be eating up the nitrates?

nope...

Well... like you said, you are interpreting your nitrate readings, so the nitrate levels may just be gradually increasing, and not so rapidly that you get different test result colors. (I hope that made sense. )

As for the temperature, these kind of bacteria like warmer temps (around 80), so I would think that 84 degrees is OK. If your test results show something inconsistent, then I would try to get the water temp down.

Sounds like you are coming along quite nicely! Just keep being patient, and when your ammonia and nitrites get down to 0, you are completely cycled! When it gets to that point, do a water change to get your nitrates down to 10 or fewer, and then add fish.

Desiree, hi

You started out with Prime. No test strips measure ammonia accurately with the sodium hydroxymethanesulfonate based chlorine/ammonia binders.

You have bacteria in your system that can convert nitrates back to ammonium. That could explain why your nitrites are dropping and not nitrates rising. You are adding new filter media, surface, and adding more places for bacteria to colonize.


A real easy way to cycle if you are on chloramines, is to not use a product like Amquel, Prime, etc but to buy a cheap chlorine only remover. A sodium thiosulfate based, that only removes chlorine.

That way you remove the chlorine, but leave the ammonia behind.

If you are worried about the cycle and have the time, add a small piece of raw shrimp or any other sea food and wait a while. Then test and see what you have.

Heat will make the cycle work faster and more carbon will grow more bacteria. Add a pinch of baking soda for carbon.

I am currently using API drop tests, which from what I gather measure ammonia appropriately, even with Prime.

Desiree is right. API ammonia tests are salicylate-based tests and thus do not pick up chemically-bound ammonia.

Here's a nice article by the North Florida Koi Club. http://www.nfkc.info/nfkconliine/Discussio...n%20ammonia.htm


What bacteria are you suggesting are converting nitrites back into ammonium? The nitrosomonas only work one way.

Just thought I would note that I finally beat the fishless cycle. Everyone was right, once I started seeing nitrites, it wasn't that long till the whole thing evened out. Did a 90ish% water change today and got some new lil' sea monsters for my tank. I will make sure and post pictures asap. Thanks everyone for all your help, guidance and patience through the fishless cycle from he**!!!

Congratulations! I saw the seamonsters, they are very cute. Hooray!!