Ammonia = 0
Nitrite = 0.25
Nitrate = 5.0 - 10.0
pH = 8.2
KH = 300
API drops
75 gallon tank, running 9 weeks+
Aqueon 325 and Emperor 400 filters
Water temperature ~ 78 degrees
Water changed 75% every 72 hours with thorough gravel vac (see below for explanation)
5 goldfish (2 small, one medium, two medium-large) & 1 bristlenose pleco
Medications added - Aqua Prazi and 0.1% salt
Fish fed - ProGold, peas, pea-based gel food (with krill, blood worms, etc), spirulina flakes
UV sterilizer turned off

Over the past two weeks or so, my black moor has had a couple of split fins and a missing scale here and there. They seem to be healing quickly, but then recur in another place. During this time, two other fish have had small fin splits that have also healed quickly.

Behavior - Black moor bottom sits badly for a few hours every two to three days. He looks so bad during these times that I am sure that he is going to die. Then all of a sudden he goes back to normal for a couple of days. During bottom sitting episodes, he seems to be flicking his dorsal fin every few minutes (which he doesn't do at other times).

I am 9 weeks + into cycling this darn tank, and am still getting nitrite (don't know why). Ammonia has been zero for weeks and weeks. Fortunately, my pH, KH, and GH are very high (which I understand makes nitrite less toxic to fish).

I had been hoping to hold off treating for flukes until the tank was completely cycled, but went ahead and started treating with Prazi on Sunday because I believe that my black moor's symptoms may be due to flukes.

On Sunday I started by changing 75% of my water and gravel vacuuming throughout the whole water change (I have 1/4 inch of medium-sized natural river rock). I added 1 tsp of Aqua Prazi and removed all carbon from my filters. After the initial addition of Prazi, my black moor looked really bad (pale, bottom sitting) for about two hours. I figured that this was due to the Prazi killing the flukes in his gills.

Monday and Tuesday I managed nitrite by adding AmQuel+.

Wednesday (yesterday) I did another 75% water change and added another teaspoon of Aqua Prazi. Again, the black moor acted stressed, then returned to normal within two hours. But this morning he was back to bottom sitting again.

My questions are these:

• Do you think that I am right in my assumption that his symptoms are being caused, at least in large part, by flukes?
• Is this a reasonable schedule of water changes and medication dosing, given that I am trying to balance using Prazi with managing nitrite?
• At a water temperature of 78 degrees, what is the life cycle of flukes? Is my schedule of gravel vacuuming and adding Prazi every 72 hours a good match with their life cycle?
• How long do I need to maintain the Prazi in order to feel confident that I have eradicated the flukes?

Thank you!

Sorry to hear that you're having problems with your black moor. As for the scales/fin splits, is there anything in the tank he can brush up against and hurt himself? If so, this may be a sign of flashing, and would confirm your flukes suspicion.

If you've never treated for flukes before, it's highly likely that it is flukes (you know what they say about store-bought fish. ), especially coupled with bottom-sitting behavior and possibly flashing.

I think you're doing a fine job of managing the cycle and treating at the same time-- however, it seems counterproductive to put so much Prazi in a 75gal to treat one fish and then change 75% of the water. Can you get him into a hospital tank? It would make your job so much easier (not to mention cheaper).

Higher heat DOES speed up the fluke life cycle, so that they hatch faster and die faster, hopefully before propagating.

As for how long to treat for flukes... if you KNOW you have flukes (through a scrape and scope), some recommend a treatment as long as 5 weeks. A preemptive treatment is usually about 2 weeks or so.

Just my thoughts--- hopefully someone can help you further. I really do recommend getting your moor into a temporary hospital tank, though. Good luck Kristen.

It does sound like flukes, and his reaction to prazi makes even more of a case for it.

Joy forgot to mention (before giving me the computer): good luck in your cycling! Hopefully your nitrites will disappear soon. It's really frustrating, but hang in there.

The decor in the tank is pretty minimal -- a few very soft/flexible plastic plants with rounded edges and a small synthetic cave for the pleco. Other than that, there are just my two filter intakes and the power head that runs my UV sterilizer. Those three things are probably the "sharpest" edges in my tank. I have not observed the moor flashing, but I suppose that it is possible that it is happening during the night.

Yes, dosing the whole big tank is an expensive thing. But at this point I figure that I have flukes in the tank, as well as on the other fish (although hopefully to a lesser extent). Doesn't that necessitate treating the whole tank (or leaving the tank vacant long enough to starve the flukes)? I don't have a scope, but I was kind of planning on treating for 2 weeks. I just would hate to go to all that trouble and expense and have one or two remaining flukes that then reestablish themselves within a matter of weeks.

It is interesting that the new labels on Prazi refer to fluke "control" rather than fluke "cure". It bums me out to think that I now have a tank that will always have a simmering population of flukes in it...

Hi Acupunk

I just wanted to chime in that you are right about treating the whole tank. If there are flukes on one fish, they will be on all the fish. Even if you're not certain, you can't go wrong with the treatment if they've never been treated before. I believe the treatment is for 3 weeks.

There's definitely something wrong that causes his bottom sitting. Is there any correlation with the water changes and his bottom sitting? Is it before the water change when the nitrites may be high? Cycling can be stressful for fish, and he may be sensitive to it - causing him to bottom sit.
I'm sure someone will chime in with more insight than I can give.

Best of luck with your fish, and I hope your cycle will finish soon for you!!

Debbie

I got home this afternoon and now my black moor's tail fin and one of his pectoral fins is badly tattered! (Before he just had a few very minor fin splits here and there.) I know for CERTAIN that he didn't look like this this morning. I don't see any of my other fish picking on him and the pleco is never out during the day. What could be causing this kind of fin damage over the course of just six hours or so? Flukes? Are my other fish smart enough to only pick on him when I am not home? Surely not?

The good news is that he is not bottom sitting the way he was this morning. Would trailing his tail and pectoral fins on the gravel this morning have allowed nasties in the gravel to damage his fins?

And another question: I purchased a bottle of One and Only nitrifying bacteria from Drs. Foster & Smith. It is a brand new product made by the scientist (Dr. Tim Hovanec) who developed Bio Spira, who has now founded his own company. As I understand it, Bio Spira is the only bacteria in a bottle that is worth anything, and One and Only is the new and improved version of Bio Spira. Anyway, I contacted Dr. Hovanec and he recommended against using his product while using Prazi, not because it would be dangerous, but because he doesn't have definitive evidence that prazi won't adversely affect the bio bugs. So my quandry now is: do I finish another 2 weeks of fluke treatment and continue to subject my fish to nitrites, or do I suspend the fluke treatment for a week or so and FINALLY finish off my cycle by using the One and Only? Help?

Hmmmm - how big is that pleco? According to Rick at GFC, no type of pleco is safe to keep with goldfish.

Flukes also, will leave a fish with very tattered fins and cause lethargy. My instinct would be to bombard with Prazi as a first priority and manage your finishing cycle as best you can with Prime/Amquel and water changes.

Do you ever test your tap water before making a change? Might be worth doing as sometimes there can be surprises with the PH etc.

The pleco is about 4 inches. But the thing that convinces me that he is not the culprit is that the damage to Cricket's fins occurred yesterday during a time of day when the tank is very brightly lit (by tank lights and direct morning sun through a east-facing window). If I force Buzz (the pleco) out of his cave during the day he acts like a blind mole, scuttling to find a hiding spot ASAP. I can't imagine that he would have voluntarily left his cave to mess with the fish.

I have been monitoring all my fish very carefully each morning to make sure that none of them show any evidence of pleco harassment. I have also been making sure that Buzz is well-fed with algae wafers, so that hunger won't prompt him to nibble on my goldfish. I hope that I don't have to remove him from my tank -- he does a great job of keeping things so neat and tidy.

Pixiefish -- how long do you think that I should continue with the prazi treatment? At a tank temperature of 78, how often should I dose it to make sure there is a fresh dose in there to hit them at the most vulnerable phase of their lifecycle?

I have tested my tap water several times -- its pH is slightly higher than my tank pH (8.4 versus 8.2).

Someone smart on here (can't remember who... maybe it was Daryl?) told me that Prazi is so gentle that it can be used every other day.