Hello everyone,

So, I'm currently in my 7th day of a fishless cycle utilizing Stability in lieu of pure Ammonia. Anyway, I've been keeping a water quality journal and my ammonia has been slowly but surely increasing as the days go by. Well, today I did my usual strip test and the reading for Ammonia showed up BLUE. But, the chart provided only reads varying levels of ammonia from yellow (lowest-0) to green (highest 6.0). Should I assume my ammonia is off the charts? Based on this assumption, my ammonia levels would be well over 6.0, and you would think my nitrites would have kicked in by now... Anyone else have similar experiences with this? Am I reading the strip correctly?

Hmmn, yes, from my experience nitrItes can kick in as early as the 3rd or 4th day but there isn't any hard or fast rule. I agree that your ammonia is off the chart and it's impossible to guess what it is but that doesn't really matter as your cycle is flshless. LOL The high ammonia is probably due to the delayed nitrIte activity and once that starts your ammonia readings will fall. Patience my precious ... patience. lol

I guess I really do not understand.....

Stability, as far as I can research, is supposedly a bottle of beneficial bacteria ("different than the common ones that create the nitrogen cycle in a tank" (?) )

There is nothing in the blurb on the product that says it adds or creates ammonia. To give the Stability bacteria something to work on - to "eat" - to create a nitrogen cycle in the tank, you need a source of waste. That waste can be a fish - or it can be clear ammonia that you add - or it even can be decaying plant matter and fish food (not reliable, but a very old-fashioned method). Stability, itself, does not add ammonia.

So, where is your ammonia source? As I understand it, there is no ammonia source in that tank. What your test kit is "reading" is most likely a totally bogus - non-relevant ....something.

Have you added ammonia in any form?

Just one thing to add-- strip water tests are horribly inaccurate. You may be getting wacky readings because of the test itself. Drop test kits (most of us prefer API) are much more accurate.

Err, I just assumed desiree was adding fish food? (never make assumptions, lol)

Thanks for the responses everyone!

Nope, I'm not adding any fish food, or any other form of ammonia... just Stability. I added Prime when I initially set up the tank 8 days ago. The readings started out at 0 then progressed to what I believe is 6.0 over the span of a week. I keep an (almost) daily water quality journal documenting the progession of the cycle. I've had really bad water in the past and am trying to make sure I get off to a good start this time. I intended to do a fishless cycle with pure ammonia but had absolutely no luck finding any in stores. Every bottle I tested had fragrance or other stuff in it.

On a side note, I tested my tap water and the ammonia reading is 0. I read a bunch of reviews and a few posts here about people cycling their water with Stability, which is why I tried it... I imagine the good bacteria gets the cycle going so to speak. I'm still a bit of a novice, but my understanding is that adding ammonia or adding bacteria to the tank is the same... since ammonia builds due to waste and decaying food, etc... ie. bad bacteria then eventually converts to good bacteria and nitrates... Maybe, I'm way off here... but, it seems like this product should work (in theory?). Just thinking about all this is making me confused. I was at school 12 hours today, so that may be partly to blame.

Also Joy, I know test strips can be inaccurate, but with my schedule (finals) I just don't have time for the API tests on a regular basis (right now). Once the tank is closer to being cycled (before I get any fish) I fully intend on using the regular API tests.

The ammonia is food for the beneficial bacteria. No matter how much "good bacteria" you add to your tank, without ammonia they will just die off.

Good luck with finals; hope your readings with API come out okay.

Hmmm. Well, in that case... it really is quite bizarre that I'm getting an ammonia reading at all. And not only that, but an increasing one! What's going on in there?! Good thing this cycle is fishless...

So have you been testing your ammonia daily and watched it gradually rise to this dark blue colour?

How often and at what dosage are you adding the Stability?

TOJ is right that 'Stability' is bacteria only, no food. 'Cycle' contains bacteria + food for bacteria.

Theoretically, if you were adding Stability daily, the bacteria would be dying off due to starvation consequently becoming food for the next dose of Stability. Perhaps this is happening??

Yes, I test almost daily. It has gradually risen from 0 to .50 in the first 24 hours, then at day 3 up to 1.0, at day 4 to 2.0, then day 7 to what looks like 6.0. Stability is being added to the water as directed on the bottle. The first day I added 1 capful per 10 gallons= 3 capfuls. Since then, I have been adding 1 1/2 capfuls per day.

OK Desiree, I've got with the programme now. lol I got out my bottle of Stability and it does say to dose daily for 7 days to "rapidly establish the aquarium biofilter ...". Seachem are expecting the customer to add fish to the tank anytime within those 7 days (see package instructions), so it does not claim that Stability will cycle the tank by itself.

Take out a half cup of tank water and dilute with another half cup of tap water then do an ammonia test. If the ammonia test reading is within your test strip range, eg. 3, then I suggest you do a 50% water change in the tank. Next I would seed your new tank filter with media used in your existing tank and monitor ammonia/nitrIte over the next week. It should cycle pretty quickly with mature filter media from an established tank.

That's a good idea, Annette: dilute the water so that the concentration is within the limits of the test kit. That sounds like something we did in my chemistry lab... we really are a bunch of chemists!

I don't have an established tank right now. Pic in my signature is from my tank I had in California Maybe I should have just kept trying to find pure ammonia... Hmm, really not a simple task downtown, on bus routes...

Okay, I picked up an API master test kit... First, let me say, I remember why I stopped using these; I'm a clutz! I knocked over 2 vials in less than 5 minutes. It really is interesting how different the results are... and the survey says: Ammonia: .25, Nitrate: 0, Nitrite: 0, PH: 8

Hmmm, I'm happy I switched over. There is a HUGE difference between 6 and .25... I didn't add Stability today (for the first time). Do you think that could have anything to do with it? Also, I went on another wind goose chase looking for ammonia. I found many a bottle, but none with ingredients simply as: ammonia, water. Since I clearly misinterpretted the intention of Stability, is there any other way to do a fishless cycle without ammonia? Does fish food really work? If so, how much? I'm stocked to the brim with Progold!

Thanks everyone for guiding me to the preverbial API light!

First, Im amazed that those strip tests could be so way off - Wow! Second, .25 ammonia sounds much more reasonable - hooray!

You know what? You have a 30g tank, why not cycle with just one smallish fish? A fishless cycle with fish food is a long, stinky, putrifying mess.

Are you using a high range ph test kit? API regular ph test only goes up to 7.6. If you are using the strip tests for ph take a sample of water to your lfs and ask them to test the ph for you, just to check. ph is very important during cycling, a high ph makes the ammonia much more toxic and a low ph makes the nitrItes much more toxic, if your ph really is 8 you need to know. You can do weekly water changes during your cycle and in between dose daily with Prime to safely neutralise any ammonia or nitrIte.

I'm using the API drop tests now, yes the high range PH test. Is 8.0 okay? I've never had that high of a PH... So, I haven't added Stability to my water in 2 days, last night... after doing the test I decided to try using fish food to cycle my tank. I found a tiny mesh bag and placed about 20 small pellets of ProGold in it and left it in the tank overnight. I took out the bag this morning and have dumped the remaining food and rinsed the bag clean. I figure this way, I can take the rotting food out every day and re-supply the tank with new food without having to do a water change and possibly mess up the cycle. By this morning, the tank clouded over ala 'new tank syndrome'. It looks really yucky, but I think this may be progress. I'm going to test my water again tonight and if there is an increase in the ammonia levels; I may keep doing it this way...

As for cycling with a new fish... I'm tempted. I've had this tank for a few weeks now and I can't help but want to fill it! The day I bought the tank there was the most adorable little orange & white lionhead at my LFS. Yesterday, when I bought my API, he was still there. I almost bought him but had to remind myself of the disaster that happened the last time I cycled a tank with fish in it (w/o a seeded filter). I'm just too afraid to go through that again. I really hope he is still there next week **crosses fingers**! He was adorable!!!

Okay, maybe my eyes are playing tricks on me... I just tested my water again and it read: Ammonia: >0.25, Nitrate: 0, Nitrite: 0, PH: 7.4

I figured my Ammonia levels would have increased, at least a little... not decrease. I'm not suprised about the N's at 0, but what's happening with my PH? Can it really drop .6 in 24 hours? Did my PH take a proverbial crash? I'm so confused...

Should I start up with the Stability again? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

EDIT: Note- Out of the tap, my PH reads at: 7.4 too...

The ammonia level would only have to move minutely to change the reading from .25ppm to less than .25ppm, I wouldn't worry about that.

Unfortunately, changing out the fish pellets each day with fresh ones will take forever to cycle your tank, if at all. The whole idea of using fish food to cycle is that the decomposing food feeds the bacteria, that's why it's such a horrible mess.

The variation in your ph is either due to a messed up test result or a peak in your tap water supply. I suggest that you monitor your tank and tap water for two more days to see if both stay stable and you have a reliable reading.

I can understand your reluctance to add fish to an uncycled tank but it really isn't that hard or dangerous provided that the tank is very lowly stocked while cycling. If you don't want to use a goldfish you could use about 4 daninos, they are compatible with goldfish so you can keep them after your tank has cycled.

At this point I would not add anymore 'Stability' until the next 7 days have passed, then add it weekly until the tank has cycled.

Well, the whole food-rotting-providing-ammonia discussion is moot now, because I'm meeting up with Desiree tomorrow in Seattle and I'm going to give her the bottle of ammonia I used to cycle my first fish tank.

Seattle water might be funky... old pipes and whatnot. Might be altering the pH.

I'm going with Joy! It's my birthday Monday (21!!), so maybe we can meet up at a pub somewhere at midnight? Just a thought.

Yay!!!! Joy & Penguin to the rescue!!! I'm so excited! Oh, and Happy 21st Birthday Penguin!!! Also, Joy- you bring up a good point, I live in a really really old building... I wonder if the old pipes have anything to do with the funky PH readings... Hmmm...

Well, that's so nice you guys can get together. I wonder if TOJ would be able to bring along some established filter media from her filters? That would come in handy.

That would be handy, but... her tanks are 300 miles away. The ammonia was left at her parent's house (here in the seattle area) from her fish tank back in high school, so is a bit more convenient at the moment.

Yep, we're just out for the weekend to visit family and celebrate Thomas' birthday. My babies and filter media are a long drive away.

In my experience, fishless ammonia cycling goes relatively fast. You don't have to wait for any food/waste to break down before you get the ammonia. Desiree, you could add Stability or Cycle with some ammonia to see if it goes faster--- but IMHO the stuff is pretty worthless. If there were any BBs in it, they're long dead by the time you buy it off the shelf.

Hope you have a nice trip guys and many happy returns for Thomas' birthday.

Just for the record I think Cycle and Stability are good products, (jmo) I think that's why my cycles never spike, (even though I sometimes blast filter media with high pressure from the garden hose), I find the products very reliable. The BB's are in suspended animation and need certain environmental triggers to wake up and do their thing. As you know some bacteria can survive millions of years in the right conditions.

I would recommend starting over with the daily doses of Stability once you start using the ammonia. Then after seven days revert to weekly doses of Stability until the cycle is done, this is what it says on the packaging instructions.

Sounds good! Did a 30% water change this evening (water looked gross from my food cycling method), added Ammonia and re-started up Stability (full dose). One question, how much Ammonia should be added? I couldn't find anything to measure with that isn't used for cooking, so I grabbed an extra shot glass and filled it about 10%, think this is enough to get the cycle started? How long should I wait before testing my water to see what the ppm is?

You don't need very much ammonia at all, about 1 ml (or 1 cc) per 20 gallons, the idea is to have about 3-4ppm of ammonia to the water so you will need to test it. Here, follow the instructions in this link and if you have any questions it might be a good idea to start another thread about your Fishless Cycle.

http://www.kokosgoldfish.com/FishlessCycle.html

Thanks so much! I will start up a new thread if I come across any bumps in the road, err... cycle.