Hi. I am fairly new to fishkeeping. I have been having huge problems with my tank ever since I bought it. I can give a short version and a long version. If you have time read the long version. I will go into as much detail as I can because there have been so many problems. I will also give a short version because I know most of you don't have a whole day to devote to answering someone's goldfish questions!!!

Hello CountryLovah,

First off WELCOME TO KOKO'S!!!

Secondly... you can always feel free to post the "long version".
it may not be answered right away, but eventually someone on the board will come along and give you what advice they can.
the mods are always checking the site throughout the day, and since everyone is all over the world replies will be made sometimes as quickly as a few minutes after you post to a few hours or maybe (hopefully not too often) days.

as for your question regarding what's going on in your tank,
we've got some really great mods here who know lots about fish diseases...
however, they'll be needing the "long version" of what's going on in your tank.

so if you can, copy and paste the white box of questions at the top of this section, and honestly answer as many as you can.
everyone here is just trying to help!

Edit

Thank you for a welcome and for a response. I didn't even know this had showed up. I had started to write, then actually left my computer and when I came back to start writing the page was gone. So I went on and wrote another post never realizing this one was even posted! Good news is, before I even saw what you wrote I already wrote the "long version". Any advice and help would be appreciated. Thank you so much!

I am gonna give you the basics to see if there is any response then go back in and give the whole backstory. 29 Gallon Tank that has been set up/running since January with a Penguin 200 Filter I believe (the one with the bio wheel) Nice big bubbling ornament. No live plants. At the time it had 6 goldfish in it that were all about 1 inch. It went through the cycling process and after 2-3 months my ammo dropped to zero as well as my nitrite. Not even a trace of either for over a month. Nitrate generally around 20 - 40 range. PH 8.0 - 8.2 (I know that is high but had major problems trying to lower it and was told to let it be because lowering it was causing more damage and stress) Test Kit brand is API Fresh Water Master Test Kit. Was doing 15% water changes weekly AFTER the tank cycled. (While the tank was cycling I was doing 15% every other day after someone informed me I was not changing it often enough and had ammonia stress) Various water conditioners used. Originally TopFin Water Conditioner and a few others, then API Tap Water Conditioner, most recently Amquel Plus. Typically I feed my fish flake food but i give them peas a few days a week. After the whole process I was left with 3 fish. I am now learning that would have been a great number (if not one too many??) fish for that size tank. However I did not know that at the time. I was told 6 would be a good number. So I bought one new fish and added him. I do not know the types of fish. I know one was a black moore. Other than that I can only say "fancy". After a week with no problems I bought 2 more. I had planned on getting one that week and one the next but the guy said 2 would be fine. I picked out 2 fish and brought them home and added them. Wish I had just bought the one because it turns out the one we picked out second got mouth fungus or cotton mouth or whatever the proper term is. He died within 2 days but at the time I did not know what it was. I honestly believed he had torn his face up on a rock or something it was so sudden. A few days went by. I thought nothing. So I thought okay. I will buy one last fish since my 6th had died. After adding him to the tank he was fine for a few days then developed a red spot. Looked like it was torn or ripped. I took a photo and took it to the local pet store. I was told he had some sort of bacteria infection and to quarentine him in an old 5 gallon tank I had and give him melafix and pimafix. Also to give him jungle antibacterial fish food. The guy also showed me a fish with tail rot, and a fish with ich and said "be aware of fish that look like this in the future". I watched the fish in the small tank. He did so well. Never acted sick at all. But a few days after I moved him I saw the dreaded white spots on one of the fish in the main tank. Literally overnight he appeared to be covered in salt as everyone describes it. I called the pet store back and was told to treat the main tank with QuickCure and change the water 25% every other day. I was told not to treat the small one with QuickCure. Just keep doing the melafix and pimafix. That felt wrong to me. They had told me to fill his quarentine tank with water from the main tank. So I knew he had the same disease filled water. So I treated that tank with QuickCure as well. The also told me do NOT add Melaifx to the main tank. However most things I read online said you must add some sort of antibacteria med to treat or prevent secondary infecton. I couldnt decide so i chose NOT to add it. At that point all 6 fish were swimming actively eating normally and breathing normally but they had the spots. The one black moore (Pieshy Shishy-we've got some weird names so beware)had it ALL over. The second black moore (Puff The Magic Shishy) had a good number of spots on his back fins only. The multi colored one (Moltha Stewart) had like 5 spots total. The Orange one (Benji) had 2 spots total and the orange and white fish (Sumpin' Else) had none (that were visible I mean). The fish in the small tank (Sheldon) had none either. I dosed the tank with QuickCure at around 9 pm. (this was about an hour after the spots appeared) The next morning Pieshy Shishy was dead. Sumpin Else was laying on the bottom and the other three appeared the same as before. Sheldon was fine as well. So the next night I gave another dose of QuickCure. (I was told give the medicine until the spots are gone). Next morning. Sumpin Else looks TERRIBLE but alive and still no spots, Moltha and Puff start laying around, gasping for air etc. No spot changes. Benji still doing awesome. Sheldon still good too. So I do the 25% water change as told. Next night another dose of medication. Next morning all 4 fish look pretty bad. Benji is still the best , Sumpin is still the worst. Puff begins showing badly frayed fins. I added a dose of Melafix because it appeared to be fin/tail rot. At this point Sheldon begins to show signs of stress and lays around more. That is when I notice the first spot on him. On one hand I was glad that I had added QuickCure even though I was told not to. On the other hand I start freaking out that the medicine is hurting them not helping them. And started doing major online reading. Most things say "dose 10 days" "minimum of 10 days". Stuff like that. I called 3 pet stores. All told me to KEEP MEDICATING. Part of me was tempted to take the remaining 4 out and just put them in unmedicated water but being that everything says not to I left them alone. At some point that day the spots began to go away on the fish. I add the 4th dose of QuickCure that night. Next morning (this morning) I find Benji (who never really displayed signs of sickness at all and only ever got 2 spots) and Puff The Magic Shishy are dead. Their spots gone. Sumpin Else looked dead but moved when I started to remove her. Her tail had started to fray badly as well. And she had red streaks in her tail that was remaining. I flipped out and did a 50% water change in both the main tank and small tank. Hours later I find Moltha Stewart dead as well. Her spots gone. This leaves one Sumpin Else in the main tank (who got sick the earliest amd never had any spots) and Sheldon in the small tank. Against everyones advice I filled another 5 gallon tank with Tap Water treated with Amquel Plus. I put Sumpin Else in it. Nothing else but a little gravel. No filter. Nothing. And did a 50% water change in Sheldon's tank (who at this point is covered in spots but overall active and normal!! And his intial wound that got him in the small tank is healing). I had to take my boyfriend to the airport so I was running around like a fool for a few hours. When I got home Sumpin Else was slightly better for the first time in days. And Sheldon was almost perfect. So WHAT NOW?! Every website, store worker, article has contradictory information. No 2 stories alike. I realize I must treat the ich but the ich medicine seems to be hurting them. I actually went to another pet store tonight. This girl said "Goldfish can not get Ich. In all cases I have known it has been a case of fin or tail rot". I thought to myself "she's NUTS! EVERY WEBSITE SAYS GOLDFISH get ich!!". Yet this is the only person this whole time who has actually stood and talked to me for a LONG period of time. She seemed very knowlegeable, very experienced, very smart and very caring. She recommended I leave the fish in the 2 small tanks, add some salt. Give them melafix if I wanted to (but she said that was not a MUST), and do extra extra water changes. And to make sure the 2 smalls tank have flowing water. It's been a few hours. Sheldon seems soooo good, but has spots everywhere. But is swimming and eating and responsive. Sumpin Else has actually come up to eat and started swimming occasionally. Her tail is badly damaged. WHAT now?! How can I make the correct decision if every website I read says my fish have ich and the only person who makes ANY sence that I talk to in person says Goldfish can not get ich. She says she has been working fish departments for years. She has many many successful tanks. Is she RIGHT?! I found ONE page on google that supported what she said. Just one. A guy wrote something about "I work for a science lab - goldfish cannot contract ich" All I know is.. The fish all seemed fine (except for the spotty appearance) until I medicated them for ich. Then all got terribly bad or dead while medicated them for ich. Then only made a slight improvement in a non medicated small tank. And sadly yes this is the short version. The long version includes the problems leading up to this getting the tank cycled, and the original problems with a goldfish bowl. Basically its just been dead fish after fish and I honestly am depressed about it. I've had them for such a small period but I have become extremely attached. It's actually just incredibly sad to watch them in pain, and to lose them. I just want to save Sheldon and Sumpin Else and I don't know how because everyone says something different. I am unsure of everything I do, and every move I make. The only thing I am semi sure of is that that fish with the mouth fungus was the start of the problems and I really really wish I had chosen to get just one fish that day. Pleaase help me!!

I meant to post this in Emergency 911, and it showed up in the wrong section. I am new to this and very sorry if I am annoying anyone. I will repost this in Emergency. Thanks

Hello again CountryLovah,

just to be clear... i read the whole thing, but it's hard it's hard to find details in that huge paragraph.

do you know the actual water parameters in your tank?
and can you just write a brief short answer for each of the questions below?
it's really important that you provide as accurate a number/explanation as possible for the following questions, because with a 29 gal tank that was overstocked... the main thing that i worry about is your water quality. with what use to be 6 goldfish in a 29 gal meant for 2, at most 3 goldfish... water changes should have been at about 75% at least once every 2-3 days.

the best way to get answers to your questions is to help us understand the chemistry going on in your tank and not just the progression of disease.
and goldfish can definitely contract ich.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[*]Test Results for the Following:
Ammonia Level?
Nitrite Level?
Nitrate level?
Ph Level, (If possible,KH and GH and chloramines)?
Ph Level (KH/GH) out of the Tap?
Brand of test-kit used? (strips or drops?)
[*]Tank size (How many Gals) and How long has it been running?
[*]What is the name and size of the filter/s?
[*]How often do you change the water and how much?

[*]How many fish in the tank and their size?
[*]What kind of water additives or conditioners?
[*]Any medications added to the tank?
[*]Add any new fish to the tank?
[*]What do you feed your fish?
[*]Any unusual findings on the fish such as
"grains of salt",
bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus?
[*]Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating,ect..?

i merged the two threads you had open, but unfortunately i don't have the capability of deleting a double post at the moment.
but anyway... can you fill in the questions with simple concise answers? this will help the mods greatly in determining the best procedure to follow with your tank setup.

OK - I'll tidy up the posts and make the necessary deletions for you Tinko.

CountryL - unfortunately you have a combination of problems which have conspired against you.
1) New Tank Syndrome
2) Massive overcrowding + no quarantine measures
3) Very toxic meds in unstable water.
4) Medicating without filter/ammonia control in treatment tank.

We can elaborate on all this and help you more, once we have a little more info.

I think you should immediately test your water and then do an enormous water change to relieve toxicity; run carbon to remove the traces of meds and post up your water chem asap. Just copy and paste the form which Tinko has pasted above and try to answer next to each one.

It will help you to read the links below my sig meanwhile, so that you are clear on the basic principals.

Welcome to the board.

It sounds like you have had a terrible experience with ich meds. It is very common. I lost several fish years ago to similar harsh meds. Most fish meds that "cure" ich kill by burning (are caustic) and the toxity threshold can be a slimline between what will kill parasites and what can burn fish and if overdosed can cause fish kill. At a high pH like yours these meds can be doubly lethal.

If I can give you one word of advice for your future in fish keeping it is this- there is nothing better for fish than a clean new (treated for chlorine and matched for temperature), fresh tank of water and at the first sign of any problems this is always the very first port of call and almost as often the very best medicine.

Ich is a stress related disease. These parasites take their chance when the fish are weakened. The early ammonia and cycling will have weakened your fishes immunity and made them vulnerable. My fish got ich when I didn't match the temperature at a water change.
I used salt to cure the ich- it is so safe and easy on the fish.

The second golden rule is NEVER introduce a new fish by plopping it straight in with the old fish. All new fish must be observed closely for a few weeks in a separate tank with daily water changes and the right kind of salt (see salt link in my siggy). A treatment for flukes is also advisable- prazi is the gentlest.

Third: Be careful what store sales staff say. They are often after your money first and foremost and cannot always be trusted to give you sage advice, although there are of course exceptions.

Finally, be sure to check your cycle is still safe. After strong meds you may be seeing ammonia again as your bbs may have been culled. Ammonia and nitrites always reduce the strength of your fishes immunity and make them liable to all kinds of infections. Your fishes water is their life support system and as fishkeepers we are water keepers. Keeping the stocking levels at 10 gallons for each fish; checking regularly for ammonia and nitrites and nitrates/pH stability- you are right stable is key, 8 is fine- ; regular water changing including minimum monthly 100% water change, filter media rinsing in old tank water to preserve bbs; making sure filtration is good and strong and feeding a variety of different foods is how to keep your water and fish healthiest from here on




Pixie- sorry double post!

I've got nothing else to add to what Tink, Pixie, and Trinket have given you. They are all very experienced goldfish keepers and they have helped me through disease crises before.

I just want to say so far, you've done as much as you could for your fish. And the best thing is that you are here now. I'm so sorry that you've lost so many fish... we all know the pain of it, no matter how long we have the fish.

You genuinely care about your fish, and we can all understand how this horrible process has been for you. We've all had similar stories before we found Koko's. I wish you the best of luck, and hope you know that now you have a whole devoted community caring about your fish as well.

Welcome to Koko's, we're so glad to have you here.

Okay. Here's what I am going to do. Right now there are 2 fish left. They survived the night each in their own 5 gallon tank. For now there are no fish in the main tank so I am not going to even worry about what the readings are. I am going to take Trinkets advice and give them each fresh water. I am going to Amquel PLus and API Aquarium Salt. Then I will take the readings and post what my readings. That seems to be the overall advice and it is also pretty much what I did yesterday and saw improvements. I hope this is the right thing to do. I will be back. Thanks to everyone who is trying to help. Thanks so much.

if they are both in separate 5 gallon tanks, make sure you do multiple water changes throught the day for each tank.

you mean after I get it all changed initially?

Tank ******ONE***** Before Changing ANYTHING:

[*]Test Results for the Following:
Ammonia Level? .25
Nitrite Level? 0
Nitrate level? 20
Ph Level, (If possible,KH and GH and chloramines)? 7.8
Ph Level (KH/GH) out of the Tap? Just now tried some 7.6
Brand of test-kit used? (strips or drops?) API Freshwater Master Test Kit
[*]Tank size (How many Gals) and How long has it been running? 5 gallons.. (holds 4 gallon water when filled to right amount) only running one day. I'm using it as a quarentine tank.
[*]What is the name and size of the filter/s? None right now. Was told to take out the carbon and run the filter which is normally a Whisper Internal Filter for 1-3 gallons. I used to use a Whisper Internal Filter for 2-10 gallons but it was too strong, the fish got sucked to the filter. OR use an airstone. That is what I was using. Just a pump with tubing and an airstone.
[*]How often do you change the water and how much? Planned on changing all then doing 50% daily?? If not more?

[*]How many fish in the tank and their size? 1 goldfish about 1 inch.
[*]What kind of water additives or conditioners? Amquel Plus
[*]Any medications added to the tank? Melafiz, Pimafix, Quickcure
[*]Add any new fish to the tank? N/a
[*]What do you feed your fish? right now Jungle antibiotic fish food
[*]Any unusual findings on the fish such as
"grains of salt",
bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? Yes grains of salt, small wound on one side (which is healing)
[*]Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating,ect..? A bit of laying on the bottom, mostly behaving normally

Tank ******TWO***** Before Changing ANYTHING:
Almost identical to tank ONE with a few changes mostly to behavior of fish

[*]Test Results for the Following:
Ammonia Level? .25
Nitrite Level? 0
Nitrate level? 20
Ph Level, (If possible,KH and GH and chloramines)? 7.8
Ph Level (KH/GH) out of the Tap? Just now tried some 7.6
Brand of test-kit used? (strips or drops?) API Freshwater Master Test Kit
[*]Tank size (How many Gals) and How long has it been running? 5 gallons.. (holds 4 gallon water when filled to right amount) It's been set up for one day. I'm using it as a quarentine tank.
[*]What is the name and size of the filter/s? Nothing. The fish in the tank is so weak. When I put any kind of filter or air stone in the tank he struggles to not get suctioned to the filter, stuggles to fight the current and starts breathing HEAVILY. Normally Whisper Internal Filter for 1-3 gallons. (as with other tank I used to use the 2-10 gallon but it was too strong for the fish and many fish got sucked into it and died.
[*]How often do you change the water and how much? Planned on changing all then doing 50% daily?? If not more?

[*]How many fish in the tank and their size? 1 goldfish about 1 inch.
[*]What kind of water additives or conditioners? Amquel Plus
[*]Any medications added to the tank? Melafix
[*]Add any new fish to the tank? N/a
[*]What do you feed your fish? He's not eating at all. Trying to give him Jungle Antibacteria fish food
[*]Any unusual findings on the fish such as
"grains of salt",
bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? Extremely fraying torn fins. You can see pieces literally coming off. Layer of white gunk on him which appears to be flaking off. Some red streaks. Eyeballs look red and or bulging?
[*]Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating,ect..? Laying around almost constantly, not eating, no longer swimming to top, breathing heavily

Okay I now have each fish in it's old goldfish bowl with water from the tank it had just been in. No changes have been made. I am ready to fill each with fresh treated tap water, but do I need to clean the tanks or gravel first? If so what should I use? I was told by someone to use vinager and water, someone else said to boil the gravel. Others said just run everything in cool tap water. While I am waiting for a response from someone on here I will just rinse everything in tap water, add new water and try to get it the right temperature and add only Amquel Plus to the water. Then wait to see what I should do next as far as adding salt, filters, carbon etc. I have API aquarium salt. It says to add 1 Tablespoon per 5 gallons.

i'm not an expert on the diagnosis part, but for the two quarantines, it would be best if you have a filter on each of them in order to make sure the water is properly filtered and aerated (the airstones also help with this).

the main thing you want to do for any tank with fish that are ill is to make sure the water is absolutely in the best condition and pristine clean, which will be difficult in the smaller amounts.

with one fish each in the 5 gallons, i would suggest at least a 75% water change daily if not twice a day.
i would recommend testing the water at least twice a day morning and evening, and based on the results decide whether or not your quarantine tanks need water changes.

also, at the same time i would suggest making sure your 29 gallon is cycling because once your fish are better, the 29 gal is the optimal place for you to put them since the 5 gallon QT's will be difficult to keep water parameters in check, cycle, and medicate all at once.

hopefully one of the mods will be able to drop by soon and help out with the diagnosis of your fish.

countrylovah... i am confused as to why you went from 5 gallon QTs to a goldfish bowl?

Bowls have no filter mechanisms and no moving water. The fish are just floating there in their own waste and food. They need to be back in the tanks with filtration, aeration and moving water. A filter meant for a 3 gallon tank is not going to be enough for a 5 gallon, as goldies are very dirty little guys and put out a lot of waste. If you fish were getting sucked into the filter, its likely because they were weakened and stressed from the meds and New Tank Syndrome.

The water from the tank was already pretty toxic with meds and ammonia. They need fresh, temperature and ph matched dechlorinated water.

No no. I only put them in the bowls for a few minutes while cleaning out the 5 gallons. Basically I just wanted a fresh start because of all the various medications that I had been putting in these tanks. I literally had them in the bowls for a half hour.

At this point both the 5 gallon tanks are clean. They have nothing in them but fresh tap water treated with Amquel Plus, gravel, and each have a Whisper Internal Filter 1-3 gallons WITH the carbon filter cartridges. I am going to add an airstone to each as well. There is one fish in each tank and the temperature was matched within a degree or 2. The tanks say 5 gallon but filling them takes 4 gallons. ... I understand what you are saying about the fish being weak at that is why there are being sucked into the filter, but at the same time, whatever the reason for a fish being sucked into a filter, I would think thats a bad thing!! The one fish is so weak right now he can barely pull away from the 1-3 gallon filter, if I were to put the 2-10 gallon one in he would literally be sucked to it. Now I am going to take readings in the main tank to see what is going on in there.

MAIN TANK: CURRENTLY UNOCCUPIED

[*]Test Results for the Following:
Ammonia Level? 0
Nitrite Level? 0
Nitrate level? 20
Ph Level, (If possible,KH and GH and chloramines)? 8.2 (I know that water in our area is extremely hard but I do not have a hardness or alkalinty test kit)
Ph Level (KH/GH) out of the Tap? 7.8
Brand of test-kit used? (strips or drops?) API Freshwater Master Test Kit
[*]Tank size (How many Gals) and How long has it been running? 29 gallons, bought January 31, 2008, 1st fish were added February 10, 2008
[*]What is the name and size of the filter/s? Marineland Penguin 200 Bio Wheel
[*]How often do you change the water and how much? Was changing about 20% every other day up intil the ammo and nitrite levels dropped and stayed at 0 in the beginning of April. Then 20% weekly.

[*]How many fish in the tank and their size? None now. Originally and at most times 6 1inch goldfish. 4 died in the last few days. 2 are left each in it's own seperate 5 gallon QT tanks. I will post current info on both of those tanks in a few minutes.
[*]What kind of water additives or conditioners? Variety used over the past 4 months. Typically API Tap Water Conditioner, or Amquel Plus
[*]Any medications added to the tank? YES! Over the past week Melafix, PimaFix And QuickCure were added at different times. 4 doses of QuickCure
[*]Add any new fish to the tank? Tank had 4 fish a few weeks ago. 2 new fish were put in then. The first died in a few days with growth on his mouth. Then the second got a reddish spot and was moved to QT and is still there. Then the 4 left got white spots and frayed fins. 3 of the original are dead. Only one original left which was moved to QT. No fish left in this tank as of yesterday.
[*]What do you feed your fish? Tetra goldfish flakes, peas only 2 days a week.
[*]Any unusual findings on the fish such as
"grains of salt",
bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? YES! A combination of the white spots, frayed fins, red streaks while there were fish in the tank.
[*]Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating,ect..? Yes but again there are no fish left in there now.

CURRENT CONDITIONS: All tested with API Freshwater Master Test Kit

TANK ONE: (5 gallon/ 1 fish/ tetra whisper 1-3 filter/no meds/treated with Amquel Plus and NovAqua Plus/white spots or "grains of salt", small wound which seems to be healing/normal behavior)
Ammo= 0.25
Nitrite= 0
Nitrate= 10
PH= 8.2

TANK TWO: (5 gallon/ 1 fish/ tetra whisper 1-3 filter/no meds/treated with Amquel Plus and NovAqua Plus/frayed & flaking fin & tail on fish/laying on bottom and not eating)
Ammo= 0.25
Nitrite= 0
Nitrate= 10
PH= 8.2

MAIN TANK: (29 gallon/ zero fish now-had 6/ marineland penguin 200 bio-wheel filter/still has QuickCure, Melafix and Pimafix in water/treated with API Tap Water Conditioner/prior to death 4 fish had mixture of white spots and frayed fins/prior to death 4 fish were bahving normally/other 2 fish were moved to Tanks One and Two)
Ammo= 0
Nitrite= 0
Nitrate= 20
PH= 8.2

MY TAP WATER BEFORE ADDING ANYTHING AT ALL TO IT:
Ammo= 0.25
Nitrite= 0
Nitrate= 20
PH= 7.8

MY TAP WATER WITH AMQUEL PLUS AND NOVAQUA PLUS ADDED TO IT:
Ammo= 0.25
Nitrite= 0
Nitrite= 10
PH= 7.8

At this point I have a few questions. I would like to salt as suggested by a few people. I read Trinket's How To Salt. Questions are:
1) is it okay to still since Ammo is not at zero since my tap water comes out at the level of 0.25? I don't know how TO get it to zero. The only reason the MAIN tank is at zero is because it cycled and has been running 5 months and when I add tap water to it it removes the ammo

2) is it okay to salt if the temp in the tanks is 70 degrees? I can't raise it. I don't have any sort of heater (I was told I didn't need one because goldfish are coldwater fish) and without a heater there is no way to raise it to 80 and have it stay there. I can leave the aquarium lights on to get a few degrees higher but you also said they like the dark when trying to heal and

3) If it is okay to salt is API Aquarium Salt okay? And do I still use the proportions of 1 teaspoon per gallon because on the box it says 1/2 teaspoon per gallon?

Also just wondering what makes the PH go up from 7.8 to 8.2 just by adding it to the tank. Is it the fish being in it???? I think that's it for now. I would love to know if I should salt or not before I go to bed but it doesn't look like I will get a response in time. It's been a long day and I have done nothing but test, change and clean fish tanks and water. : )

At this point I also need to know what to do with the main tank. Dump out the water? Change filter media? I have NO clue. Thanks to all who have helped already. It means a lot. Thanks to all who have commented. I appreciate it soo soo much.

Oh hon, all of us here feel your pain. Testing, water changes, and worrying around the clock. Its like taking care of sick children, except the fish can't tell you where it hurts. Very sorry that your post was misunderstood. I thought you had put the fish into bowls instead of the 5 gallon tanks. You are such a caring fishmom, I should've known better.

The ammonia coming out of your tap at .25 is a problem, but not an insurmountable one. Many people here have the same problem, and a helper or moderator will give you some help with that as I don't want to mis-advise you. I'm wondering if you can't use part of the cycled tank water in the 5 gallons to ease this problem, since it is 0 ammonia. Maybe 1/4 cycled tank water in each tank and 3/4 fresh water? Also I'm not sure if Amquel and Prime are the same basic thing. I do know that Prime neutralizes ammonia, although you will still get a reading for it, Prime isolates the ammonia for 24 hours keeping it from harming your fish. This is what I always used during cycling and it was amazing.

Absolutely do not change your filter media. It is the media with the beneficial bacteria that cycles your water. And I agree with you about the filter sucking in the fish. Just keep the water changes up.

Its ok to salt with a reading of ammonia present, but the main thing you have to do is get that ammonia to 0. The fish are already stressed and weakened and an ammonia reading will weaken them further. I'm sure you know to dissolve the salt in water before you add it. Unless your fish have ich, I wouldn't worry overly much about raising the water temp. I may have missed something in your post about that.

To add to your stress here, its very important that while the fish are out of the 29 gallon that you get it cycled. Working on 3 tanks is going to drive you bonkers, but just think of the benefits when you have the big tank cycled and can put your healthy fish back in it! Its a great feeling!

Thanks vickie for all of your advice!! Both fish made it through the next, but still no change. I actually did wind up giving them salt last night before bed. I am glad I did because I still haven't heard from any of the mods. Vickie- I am pretty sure Amquel Plus and Prime are almost the same. I actually picked up a bottle of prime last night because I heard good things about it. The Amquel bottle says something similar about detoxifying the ammonia so it won't hurt them, but the reading will still show up. So I'd LIKE to think that as long as I do water changes to keep the ammonia from going higher than what's coming out of the tap it would be okay? Based on what I have read I do believe my one fish has ich. I was thinking about buying some sort of heater, but again I wanted to wait to see what one of the mods said. As for the main tank I honestly believe it has cycled. I have had it for about 5 months. For the first few I watched it go through the process of high ammonia, then high nitrite etc. For the last month or so it has remained consistently at zero ammonia and zero nitrite. Since there are no fish in there now, I am still doing partial water changes daily to KEEP a supply of ammonia and keep it cycled (since my tap has ammonia in it). As for your advice about using part of the water, I actually thought about that! I am so uncertain though because I am scared to put in any water that might be diseased. Thanks so much vickie!! Now let's just hope one of the mods shows up soon! : )

Well I am now down to just one fish. The fishie in the first tank has finally passed. He fought for so many days that I really kinda thought he might make it. I am so sad. In the end his eyes started turning red. I was actually looking at him a few minutes ago, then I came on here to see if anyone had answered and suggested a medicine. I bought Maracyn and Maracyn 2 and was going to try it if I didn't hear back from anyone, but when I went to the tank he was gone. This is just so hard. I don't know if I can continue doing this, it's just too sad. I have one fish left, and the spots are sooo sooo soo bad. I am salting him and I did go out and buy a heater. Maybe it will help.

Oh I am so sorry to hear that. I know it's sad and it's hard-- we all do-- to lose a fish. Try not to be discouraged-- you're here now and you have all the resources necessary to keep fish, and this time getting everything right. A new fish can help you heal the fish-loss wounds. I was devastated when I lost my black moor Rhapsody, despite doing everything I could to save her. But I have two new fish now, and even some goldfish fry-- I couldn't be happier with them.

Good luck with your fish and feel better hon!

What kind of spots are they? Do they look like grains of salt?

Gosh I am soo soo sorry. I'm going to yell for help for you, ok?

Keep the cycled tank. Don't dump it. It is invaluable. Thousands of helpful bacteria called bbs are in the filter media keeping any water you add to that tank far safer then any new tank will ever be. Gee I hope it isn't too late for that....

Questions 1. Salt with 0.25 amm from tap will have to do. The alternative is worse. Do it.

Question 2. Salt at 70 degrees is fine. Do it.

Question 3. API aquarium salt is fine. Add it to the tune of one teaspoon per gallon. The half teaspoon suggested on the packet is the tonic dose. For ich (which you have and must be treated fast) you need the medicinal dose as set out in salt link in my siggy.

Do not worry about this pH rise. pH rise going up is not a top priority in your case right now. Priority is getting rid of the ich with salt.
Believe in salt. I promise you- done properly it kills ich.

I think you need to add your remaining fish back asap into the cycled tank (acclimitising him slowly to temp/pH by placing the bowl with him in it slowly into the tank and gently adding 1cm of tank water to the bowl and releasing small amounts of bowl water at a time over 5 minutes until he has a bowl full of new tank water and the old bowl water has been released into the main tank) and then start to salt in increments of 0.1% until you reach 0.3%. over a period of at least 24 hours. Since this is urgent, you can increase time intervals of salt increments and add the next 0.1% increment less then 12 hours as recommended, 8 hours apart is fine.

If you have any other Qs post back. I'll check back here later today. Don't give up. Your fish can still pull through this.

Okay Trinket. Thanks so much. I actually did a few things starting about 24 hrs ago while waiting for a response. I figured it would be better to salt early than to wait, and it looks like that was the right move. I followed your article. Basically about 24 hours ago I added the first dose of salt (mixing it how you said) to the 5 Gallon tank that my last remaining fish Sheldon is in. It actually holds 4 gallons of water so I added 4 teaspoons of API Aquarium salt. 12 hours later I did a 50% water change. Then I re-added 2 teaspoons of salt to match what had been removed, then 4 more teaspoons to up the salt content as you directed. Since then I went to the pet store and bought a small aquarium heater that is made for a 5 gallon tank. Over the last few hours I have increased the temperature gradually. It's now up to about 79 degrees. It's been about 22 hours. I am going to do another 50% water change (to keep the ammo down) and then re-add 4 teaspoons to make up for the removed salt, then add 4 more to get it up to the level you described of 0.3% Is all this correct? It seems correct based on your article but I was just checking. Then after that I was thinking of doing 50% water changes every 12 hours and putting in 6 teaspoons each time the water is changed. Unless you think I should do 75% changes which would mean 9 teaspoons correct? You recommended putting the fish back in the main tank, but now that I have the heater is it better to keep him in the small one and just be PERFECT about those water changes? I will not slack on water changes. I also bought Prime. I was going to use that as my water conditioner because its easy with the 2 drops per gallon and I have heard good things about it. The ich is badly covering the fish. However, he is swimming actively. I am giving him Jungle Antibacteria Fish food, and have been for the past few weeks as he was initially in this QT tank because of a red sore on his back half. It is almost healed.
Thank you Vickie for getting me some help! Thank you Thoughts for your kind words. And obviously to Trinket and Pixie for your answers. Oh and thanks to Tink for being here with me all along since the beginning. You guys are the best. Everyone else thinks I am insane for caring so much about these little guys. I think I have been crying every day for the last few weeks. Even before the 5 that I recently lost I lost others and its been so sad because I really do care and want to do the right thing. It is so unfortunate that stores are willing to sell you a big ol tank and a bunch of fish and tell you it'll all be fine without telling you how to properly take care of them. At this point I would just love to save Sheldon. And I will never put more than 2-3 fish in my 29 gallon tank again. Thank you all so much.

Just finished a 50% water change, and adding the salt. I should now be at 0.3%. I need to vacuum the gravel but I wanted to get the proper dosing in, then do the vacuuming. So at this point for every 1 gallon I remove I add in 3 teaspoons of salt? (yes just triple or quadruple checking!). Just tested the water:
Ammo= 0.25
Nitrite= 0
Nitrate= 10
PH= 8.0

Confused about something. People say to leave the water out for 24 hours to let stuff evaporate. Obviously this is not possible in an emergency but also wouldn't that make it hard to match the temp correctly. I've just been taking the temp reading with an aquarium thermometer (3 actually to make sure it's correct!), then running the water from the tap until it is the right temp. THEN adding the Prime (or Amquel before). Is this the correct method or am I doing something stupid?

And as for the main tank. Before I could even use it it needs massive water changing. It still has all that QuickCure in it. Aww. I really hope this works for me. I really want my little guy to live. Okay - now I'm crying again : (

You are doing so well Don't cry. Sheldon's going to pull through I know it. You are doing everything right now. I forgot about the quick cure in the main tank - that may have damaged your cycle there. Have you checked water params in there? It is worth salvaging that cycle if you possibly can because ich can clear up within a week and you will need a larger home for Sheldon....

Meanwhile, everything else sounds to be on track . Water changes when salting, I usually stick with 50% daily because calculations are so easy like that - so in your case adding back 7 & 1/2 teaspoons (in a 5 gallon =half the total salt) each time you do a 50%w/c. I suggest you keep a salt log of progress as salt overdose is dangerous and easily done. Keep checking ammonia levels and if you need to do a larger w/c to get rid of that just make sure you add back the correct amount of salt to take you back to 0.3%. There is no need to add it back in increments as the fish has already acclimated to 0.3%, its not a shock.

You are halfway there. He is swimming around- this is a very very good and hopeful sign. Ich dies fast, very fast in salt at 0.3%.

Don't feel bad. All of us here have been where you are now and have also cried for days as you have. It seems to be, sadly, the most common way to learn really good fish caring skills. Oh and you don't need to let the water sit out...using Prime is an excellent idea.
Let us know how you go from here and Sheldon's progress

Wow, you have progress already!!!!
Sheldon is going to pull through this, I just know it! And you'll always have that special bond with him, crazy as it sounds to non-fish people, lol.

None of us here think you're crazy, hon. When Moby, my fantail, turned completely black from ammonia burn where I had him in a toxic soup of meds and ammonia in too small of a tank, I actually slept in the living room so I could keep an eye on him and check the water every 2 hours. Every time I looked at him and what I had done through my own ignorance of how to care for him, I cried. Luckily I live by myself, lol.

When I talk to my 28 year old son about my fish or my cat, I get the "eye-roll", or the "Mom, have you lost it completely?" Thats why I love it here. We all understand each other.

We're all pulling for Sheldon and you!! I have a good feeling about his recovery now!

Okay next morning. Sheldon is still alive! He is still swimming! The only time he ever started laying around was when I gave him that QuickCure. I started to clean the gravel and this large vac is way too big for this small of a tank. I think I will pop in and get a small one. How important is this part of the treatment?? The vacuuming? Does it have to be perfect? Like if I miss a cyst or egg is it going to reinfest or will the heat have killed everything and I am just removing dead stuff?
Thanks again Trinket and Vickie. It means a lot that I have your advice and support! Sadly my 8 year old daughter gives me the eye-ball roll and they were originally her fish. She's at the point where she is like "Ehh, whatever. Another fish is gone" and I'm on the floor crying.
Last time I checked main tank appeard to still be cycled. Ammo was zero, same with nitrite. I added fish food to it last night, to keep the cycle going and to test if the water is maintaining the same readings. Is that right? I am going to check that soon and will post what I find.
Thanks again for all your good wishes and help. I am so glad I came to this board. Thank you all so much.

For your main tank-- the best thing you can do is test the water. You have a nitrate test, right? When you see nitrates, and no ammonia or nitrite, your tank is cycled.

All my friends are like, "oh. a fish. cool?" and I'm babbling on about the nitrogen cycle and homemade filters and fry and ponds and the different types of goldfish. I also cried for hours after my black moor died of dropsy. Luckily I sucked my boyfriend into the hobby so he definitely understands!

I really hope Sheldon pulls through... sending more good thoughts your way!

BTW you can call me Joy, not Thoughts. That's my real name, anyways.

Trinket- Okay. I have tested the main tank again. Readings are:
Ammo= 0
Nitrite = 0
Nitrate = 10 - 20
PH=8.2

I believe the cycle is still okay. That tank has not had an ammo or nitrite level above zero since approx early April even after the QuickCure was added. (Oh and Joy- thanks! The nitrate climbed super high right after the ammo and nitrite went down to zero and I lowered it with partial water changes.) Even with no fish in it I have been doing partial water changes (since my tap has ammonia when I first put it in I get a trace amount when testing the tank right after water changes then by the time I'm ready for the next water change it is back at zero. And again I added food last night (like 3 to 4 times a normal feeding if not more) just to see if that would cause the ammo to go up and it did not. At this point I need your recommendations on getting that QuickCure out. I don't want to do anything to mess it up. I know it must be vacuumed well, esp since I added that food and just let it sit. I still have the old bio-wheel and old filter catridge in. I didn't get rid of them, only removed the cartridge while giving the Quick Cure but it's back in now. Part of me says to do a full water change and rinse the gravel and decorations rather than vaccuming and worrying if I got all of the gunk and Ich and food and meds. But again I will not do anything until I hear from you!!! (Well other than small water changes). Sheldon is still swimming and eating. Every time I look in and see him wiggling around I breathe a sigh of relief. Again thank you guys. I can't say that enough...

Joy- Thanks again for your help and "good thoughts". Yeah I know exactly what you mean about talking to people. I am soo new at this but I have been reading and trying to learn. I was so misguided in the beginning and got such poor advice and little knowledge from so many people at ALL the stores. I started reading online and now everyday my boyfriend is like "yeah yeah so how's the nitrates, etc. " HA. He's definitly not into the hobby (if anything he hates it because I'm always like "hang on a sec. I have to finish with the fish I - especially recently). But he has grown to like the fish, and listens to all my stories since no one else will lol. We just got back from the May Fair. My daughter was like "can't I get a fish mom? everyone else is getting them". And I am like "No not right now - our tank is going through a lot of issues and I need to get them straightened out and I need to make sure the cycle has not been damaged". All the mom's nearby are looking at me like "Whaaaat???". lol And the sad thing is my daughter knows what I am talking about because I drag her to the stores with me : ) Besides I'm not messing with any fish from fairs anyway - I've got enough problems.

Trinket-Still haven't done anything else to the main tank. After reading a bunch of other people's questions and your and the other mods recommendations, it sounds like the last thing I would have wanted to do right now was rinse the gravel and decorations. And I have not. Still just not going to do anything until I hear back from you again. Did 2 water changes today. Almost bed time for me. Sheldon is still swimming. He seems to be diving into the bubbles from the air stone. Almost like it feels good on his scales? (maybe I am imagining things??) It is so hard to tell but I want to say that some of the Ich cysts are disappearing, while others are getting bigger. It APPEARS that the sections that showed up first are going away, and the sections that showed up last are now just reaching their worst. That also sounds like it would make sense based on what you have said about Ich's life cycle. I also picked up a mini vaccuum so I could vacuum the qt tank. I am so thankful he is still swimming. There is still so much Ich on him that I am afraid to get my hopes up, but I am praying! I'll be back in the morning. Good nite everyone!

Goodmorning CountryLovah, how are you and Sheldon doing today?

Your cycle in the main tank looks safe. That is excellent news. Cycling a tank can take as long as 2 months -its a real pain in the b*- and can really weaken fish so preserve that cycle at all costs by adding ammonia- the food is fine -BUT you should remove the food after a day in there, thats enough ammonia release to keep the cycle and rotting food produces bacteria that you do not want breeding in there!

To be absolutely sure the meds are out, add carbon to your filter box. This is a limited life span media that is usually black or a dark color and is very powerful. It binds all the meds in the carbon and holds them there for about up to 5 days. Plenty long enough to rid the tank of that yukky stuff. Then, after 3 days or so you simply chuck the carbon

You are exactly right with the theory that ich spots usually get worse looking before the cysts (full of ich) drop off the fish to lay their larval forms in the gravel or on the tank bottom. With no gravel this is easy to manage. A daily wipe/soft scrub of the tank bottom releases the larval forms and these are then sucked up at the water change. If you have gravel in there (sorry being lazy and not reading back on your info) then merely vacuum daily. Its enough.

Watch the spots. They should start to decrease now. They are stress related some what so keeping his tank water good and conditions stable will speed the process.

Hopefully hear back from you later.

Is the gravel in the main tank where you have no fish or in the QT tank? Have you thought about going bare bottom in your main tank? Its truly just a matter of personal preference and aesthetics, but many of us prefer bb. Mine isn't a TRUE bb...I have glass pebbles on the bottom, but it is soooo much easier to clean. Gravel substrate looks nice, but it gives nasty bacs and ich larvae a place to hide, and I don't trust my cleaning abilities enough to remove all of them. Plus the fact that I am deathly afraid of using a Python, and use a syphon instead.

Now is a good time to give your gravel a thorough cleaning as Sheldon isn't in there. The noxious clouds of gunk aren't good for them when you stir the gravel up to clean it. If you decide to go bb, take out small amounts of gravel at a time, and keep an eye on your water params to make sure it doesn't crash your cycle.

So glad that Sheldon is hanging in there!

Good morning everyone! My baby Sheldon is still alive : ) He's such a fighter. I love him so much! He is still swimming around AND eating. More of the ich has dropped off from his dorsal fin. (I am learning so much from this site!). It's almost clear and he isn't clamping it as much. However, even though his back fins look like there is less on them, I am starting to notice some fraying of the edges. He is still being fed Jungle Anti-bacteria fish food. Some cysts have shown up on his face. The only place I don't see any is on his wen. Which leads me to this - I know what kind of fish Sheldon is thanks to all of the great photos and info on this site. He is a red & white oranda! : )

TRINKET- I've got some new info and a new plan. I think it's a very smart one. Hopefully I am right!! Let me know what you think! Okay first of all, last night after I signed off here I tested Shelly's water again. The ammonia had climbed closer 0.50. So I did a third 50% water change before bed. It took it back down to 0.25. Then this morning I tested it again first thing and it was OVER 0.50! I think I have a solution though!!!! Now that my other fish passed (miss you Sumpin' Else!), I have ANOTHER empty 5 gallon. SO. I went out and bought an identical heater to the one that's in Sheldon's. First of all, I got rid of the gravel in both. I figured I could do it all at once since there is no cycle to preserve. Then since the tanks are so small and easy to move, I scrubbed down both of the tanks with a brand new fish tank scrubber pad, then gave both tanks 100% fresh water, treated with prime, both 80 degrees. I set the the heaters to the exact same setting. Both tanks have the same filter, a little airstone and are bare except for a small decoration in each that holds the air stones down, and 2 thermometers in each (can't be too safe!) I added 3 teaspoons of salt per gallon. Sheldon is in one tank, the other is empty. I figure every few hours I will test the water in Sheldon's. Once I see that ammonia start to rise, I can switch him into the other tank that has been sitting out and matched for everything. Then that gives me time to clean out the one he was just in, and do the same thing. I can easily scrub it down, dump out all of the water and refill it. And this way he doesn't have to wait while I do it, and this way I can take my time!! PLUS every time I do it, it will be removing any of the Ich cysts that have fallen off! Is this good? Cause it sounds excellent to me!!! LOL. Especially since one of the first priorities is keeping that water at good parameters. Plus it works great because every time I am adding the absolute correct dose of salt. And salt is so cheap anyway! What do you think?!

TRINKET- I also think I have a good idea for the main tank. The filter I have uses Penguin Rite Size C cartridges. It says that is contains Black Diamond premium Activated Carbon. You said to add carbon, but this is all I need correct? Also, the filter has room for TWO cartridges. I know the cartridge needs to be changed (it hasn't been in a WHILE) but I don't want to do that and ruin the cycle. But I was thinking if I add a second cartridge, and leave them BOTH in, then after a few days or so there will be bb's on BOTH cartridges. Then I can just change out one cartridge at a time so I will never be completely changing either. And of course the filter has that bio-wheel. Sound good? I also bought a heater for the main tank. I figure, why not get one for any future emergency. Plus I can run it now and crank up the heat to also help kill anything in that main tank. Plus couldn't I always just leave it in and set to like 68 degrees (which is the lowest temp) and that way it would always keep the temp stable? Again, let me know. I like to run everything by you guys!!

VICKIE- I am definitly gonna take your advice and start giving the gravel in the main tank a nice good vaccumming while Shelly's not in there. I have never thought about having a bare bottom tank. That will definitly be something to consider. Oh and what is a python? I typed it in google and it looks similar to a normal vaccuum?

Well. I'm off for another day of fish tank maintence LOL. Very busy! : ) It's worth every bit of it if I can keep Sheldon healthy! And at this point, I'm hooked. I definitly want to keep up this hobby. It's a shame I had to lose so many fishies, but I really think I am on the right track now(thanks to all your help and advice). Thanks guys! See you later!!! Oh by the way my name is Sue (in case any one was wondering! lol)

You have some great ideas Sue!! They all sound good to me A little expensive but if you can do that, fine. The only thing to watch is moving Sheldon very gently to the spare. Handling fish can be stressful. I use my(always wet )hands, don't use a net, they are so scary those things for fish and owner! If temp and pH are the same, you can move fast. Hopefully the 2 tanks are close.
Finish the anti-bac food course, hopefully it will help the fins but most early stage fin shredding is caused by stress so if the ich goes and the water is good those fins will heal.
You are a wonderful fish mom and Sheldon is a lucky little oranda to have you looking after him. Now ich spots...DROP OFF!!

Just checked the ph levels. Both are 8.2. EXACTLY the same color. And the temps are both 81 degrees! Wooo hoooo!!! Today I did a lot with the 29 gallon tank. I stirred up the gravel and got all the gunk floating and did like a 95% water change. That itself took out the nasty blue color of the QuickCure. (Well the color is pretty but I know what it represents!). I cleaned the decorations using tank water only. I added the second cartridge, and put on the heater. It is also at 81 degrees with a ph of 8.2. I also added salt. I figured when Sheldon does get put back in, this way everything will match, and then I can just start slowly lowering the temperature and removing the salt with water changes. (all according to how and when you tell me to do it) I am nervous to feel positive because it always seems like when I am, thats exactly when things go wrong. But everything feels like it's going as you predicted. Thank you thank you thank you. Without everyone's advice on here I would have just continued giving him QuickCure like the stores told me and I would have lost him for sure. Even if (god forbid) he doesn't get better, I can tell that the methods are working sooo much better than anything else, and he is so much happier and healthier for it. And I feel so much more prepared now. And as for the expenses, I look at it this way. I will be saving money because if my fish are happy and healthy then I won't be so sad and I won't have to drown my sadness with liquor!!! HA ha. Later guys!

Wow Sue, you are AWESOME!! What a lucky little oranda Sheldon is. Most people wouldn't go to the trouble you are going to, and I just know Sheldon is going to pull through.

I'm pretty impressed with your ginormous effort. You're a great fishmom!

Thanks Vickie!!! That means a lot to hear! It's crazy because when he first got the sore on his back, the pet store actually said "oh he probably won't make it, you might just want to flush him". And I seriously looked at the guy in horror like "WHAT?! Before he's DEAD? What if I can save him?". And then I talked to someone I've known for a long time and they said they kept getting Ich so they just kept flushing the tank. Alive fish included! And I just though that's insane!! I wanna do whatever I can to help him. They are so much more than "just a fish". These days I've been a better fish mom than a real mom. My daughter says to me last night "Mom. Do you love the fish more than me?". It was so sad. I told her "no honey, the fish is just very sick right now so they need extra attention. Like when you get sick". She's been very emotional this week because her dad is away visiting family for a few weeks. So between my sad little girl and my sick little fish I am all over the place. The poor dog is like "what-no time for me?". lol Then I've got a cat who is getting old and will not use the litter box. I am just running around with animals all day. It's crazy. (But I like it).

Sheldon is still a little swimmer and eater!! I'm so so proud of him. He still has a LOT of Ich. BUT more sections are starting to clear. There are sections on his back fins that were once covered and are now looking better. He had this one HUGE spot literally on his eyelid. It looked so annoying. Last night it was there, and this morning it was gone. He even had spots on his mouth, but those look like they went away overnight too. His tail and fins are tricky to tell what is Ich and what is frayed. I'm just gonna keep doing what I'm doing and keep hoping and praying he gets better. I'll be back later (of course!). Bye!

Sheldon update:

Ich is starting to drop off!!! YAYAYAY!! WOOOO HOOOO!! If you glance at the tank now he looks clear. It's not until you get up close that you can see anything. The other day he was just a big old white mess. I mean he had it BAD.. He looked worse than most of the pictures I have seen. I have a really good feeling now. At some point yesterday it all seemed to start coming off at once. I started crying tears of joy.

Guys. THANK YOU. I honestly believe the people on this board saved my fish and it means more to me than you can know. Everyone has been helpful and caring. But of course I must add a special thank you to TRINKET for all the great advice, tips, salting article, everything.

I will keep updating!!!! Keeping my fingers crossed!!!!!

Oh I forgot!! The edge's of Sheldon's tail and fins are turning black. Like where the fin and tail rot had started.. I've been reading different forum topics like crazy and I believe that is a GOOD thing? A sign of healing?? Actually when I first bought him I noticed black edges, but I thought that was just his coloration. Now looking back I wonder if he had had tail rot BEFORE I even got him at some point. The open sore that on his back is still getting better as well.

Question about fishless cycling and betta's. I read that some people keep a betta in their QT tank and then move it if a fish gets sick. Where do you move the betta? Just a bowl? And wouldn't it still be better to cycle my QT (after Sheldon is out of it obviously) doing the fishless method, before even putting a betta in? Or are bettas tough enough to handle the cycling. I have looked around and like others had trouble finding pure ammonia. The kind from wal mart (great value) says Clear Ammonia. Ingredients: Softened Water, Ammonia, Chelating Agent. It does not foam when I shake it. But I don't know what a Chelating Agent is. Does that mean it is NOT pure ammonia? Sorry for all the questions, especially if they are repetative. I really have been looking through old topics, but there are sooo many it can be hard to find the exact answer you are looking for.

Sheldon's Ich is gone!!!!! There may be one or two teenie tiny spots. It's so hard to tell if they are there or if I am paranoid. But overall.. Clear! I am so happy. Thanks everyone for your help. I have still been spending a lot of time reading thru old articles and forum topics. SOO helpful!

I am gonna follow Pixie's advice (I forget where I read it) and continue doing what I am doing for at least 6 more days. I've still been doing the switching tanks method. It works great. In the morning I come down and feed him. Then he usually goes to the bathroom and in about 20 mins I switch him (no nets anymore!). That leaves most of the waste in the old tank so it's not sitting in there with him all day! Then I scrub it real good, fill it with temp matched water, add salt and prime. The Ph starts out at 7.8. Within a few hours it is always 8.2. So as long as I leave it sit for a few hours, both tanks have the exact same Ph and temp. I've gotten so used to doing this, its really not that much work. Then I do the same thing at night.

He seems very happy. He is definitly getting to know my voice and gets more comfortable when I put my hand in to move him. He's just so cute. I only bought him on May 3rd, but I am already incredibly attached. I remember the day I got him there was just something exceptionally sweet and cute about him. He became my favorite instantly. I am still sad about all the other fish, especially because I think "if I had just come on here sooner maybe I could have helped them". But at the same time, I am just so happy to have Sheldon and it sounds strange but I am so thankful that he got that open sore, because thats the only reason he wasn't in the main tank.

As for the main tank I have also been doing daily maintence to keep it perfect for when he is moved back in. Stirring the gravel daily, then 50% water changes. Always goes to 0.25 of ammo and then by the morning, it's dropped to zero. Keeping salt levels at 0.3% in there as well to kill anything that was in there. It's ph is also consistently at 8.2 (after it sits a few hours). Today's readings were Ammo=o Nitrite=0 Nitrate=10 Ph=8.2.

Gonna buy stuff from Goldfish Connection soon. Just wanted to wait to til I get another answer on the other thread I have open about the dimilin and a few other q's I asked on there. I'm probably driving everyone crazy with my constant detailed updates so I'll try to slow those down now that he seems to be improving. I'm just so excited and no one in "real life" really cares! Part of me thinks I could probably move him back into the main tank since there are no fish in there, but what I've been doing is working so well that I think I am going to stick with it. Also I like knowing that every time I dump that water and scrub the tank I am getting rid of any of those Ich that are potentially on the bottom or in the water. That would be so much harder to do in the main tank.

I am probably gonna give him Prazi (once I order it) in the QT tanks as well, that way I know he is totally healthy before moving him into the main tank and that way the main tank can have a fresh start. Unless you guys think I should do that in the main tank? Might be a good idea!! Let me know. Some of you recommended dimilin as part of the QT procedure, some of you only if sypmtoms arise. Still not sure what I will do. Plan is after Sheldon is back in the main tank and shows no symptoms for a week or two I would like to get a Chocolate Oranda to be his tank mate. Of course QTing him this time!!!!! I've resisted the urge to get one now (which is hard for me!! Patience is NOT my thing). I know waiting is the right thing to do. And I now have so much more knowledge to hopefully get it right this time. Definitly gonna have to either subscribe or donate to koko's to support it. This site is incredible!!!

Pixie-the first time you responded to me on here I remember thinking I had no idea what half the things meant. Now I look back and am like "OH! Everything makes perfect sense!!!!!" Literally the first day when you asked for my tank parameters I was ready to go measure it for length width and height LMAO. Please don't make fun! (ok go ahead!)

Okay. I'm done now!! Again let me know what you guys think of everything. And about that ammonia I bought the other day. THANKS! -Sue

Whoo I feel your excitement ! Congrats on clearing the ich . I bet Sheldon is relieved and a whole lot less itchy too. You need to keep the salt in for 6 days after you see thelast spot. Oh and you dont need the heater on so high now. The cycle of raising and eliminating ich is almost done. But bring it down very slowly. Gradually.
It is exciting when everything suddenly clicks in place and you get the art of fish keeping down- I truly remember that same moment when the jigsaw all fitted together (and made the smiling happy fish picture)- so happy for you and pleased that kokos and all the great people and info here has helped another person find the hobby. Sheldon will always be special like that. A reminder of all you learnt through him

As for the other Qs, you can prazi anywhere you like -in either tank- because prazi really doesnt affect the cycle used alone. And thats all you need now. Dimilin is not needed here. Dimilin is used for visible parasites -ones you can see on the body -like lice and anchorworm. I dont think Sheldon has any because you have had him long enough for them to have made an appearance by now if they were going to. Besides your tank to tank method has actually served another useful purpose. You have washed off a lot of nasties every day by doing that. That was an excellent treatment plan!
The ammonia for the main tank sounds fine. Since ammonia is a gas it can not ever be technically totally pure its always converted to a soluble form with water. What you saw was almost certainly fine - esp.as it doesn't foam as you say.

No problem about lots of posts - in fact we're looking forward to your updates. I'd like to see a pic of Sheldon in his new home when you're all ready. And I hope your little girl and the other pets are enjoying Sheldon and now you have less worry there'll be more time to share round

Sheldon is still looking great! I've lowered the temp 2 degrees only so far today. I am doing it very slowly. What is a good temp to keep it at normally? When it did not have a heater it was typically 70. I'll have to do some more looking around to see what everyone keeps there tanks at. And I actually uploaded some pictures last night to photo bucket before Trinket even asked for them. I was planning on posting them today.. I am so pleased with his improvements I just had to show you guys!


First pics, are of him before he got the ich, and you can see the infection or sore on his back half. It looked worse in real life:
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j272/Cou...ah/DSC00837.jpg
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j272/Cou...ah/DSC00838.jpg


Then here are some pictures from when he had the Ich. This was actually after it started clearing. It was worse than this, and it looked probably twice as bad in real life than it does in the pics! If you look close at that last one you can see where it was on his mouth.And you can totally see his fins starting to fray. Poor baby.
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j272/Cou...ah/DSC01079.jpg
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j272/Cou...ah/DSC01083.jpg
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j272/Cou...ah/DSC01098.jpg
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j272/Cou...ah/DSC01101.jpg


Almost ich free here:
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j272/Cou...ah/DSC01139.jpg


And finally... Ich free Shelly!!!! YAY!:
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j272/Cou...ah/DSC01146.jpg
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j272/Cou...ah/DSC01154.jpg
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j272/Cou...ah/DSC01165.jpg

He looks sooo good. I am still nervous and hoping he stays well. I went back to the store I got him at today to take a look in the tank. It was so sad. Almost all of the fish in the tank are dead or dying. And in most of the tanks. They weren't that bad when I was there. Or maybe they were but I was not as aware. It was distgusting. There was Ich and fin rot and just terrible things on these poor fish. I was so angry. And here they are just selling the fish to people (like me in the past) not knowing anything. I was infuriated! There was one that was soo sad. He had this huge wound on him. And another fish kept nibbling on the area. Part of me wanted to buy a new 10 gallon tank and keep him in it and try to save him but I don't know nearly enough yet. It was heartbreaking. I think he was a red oranda but his wen wasn't fully developed. I know there are soo many fish like that but this one just broke my heart. Part of me still wants to run back and get him away from that biting fish!!! Seriously I think the only thing stopping me was the fact that I'd have to come on here and say "Guys! I need help with another fish!!!" lol.

Okay. I am gonna go do my nite time tank switch. Oh and my daughter is feeling much better! I've been giving her lots of extra attention. Except she's been to so many pet places with me that now she wants a hampster! NO NO NO! lol And the dog just sits on my lap WHILE I am on the computer so he's happy now too. LOL.

wow! you've surely made some GREAT progress!!!

it's so great that you care so much and are working so hard for Sheldon!
i'm glad to see all is working well for you and Shelly!!!