Sorry I posted that before you responded. Yes both tanks are cycled. I will definitly leave him in the 29 gallon if that is what you suggest. I just wanted to make sure that the 10 gallon was useable in case that is what you suggested.. Plus I suppose I could always use that water to make water changes! After a little while it kinda gives me 10 gallons of ammonia free ph matched temp matched water!

Umm. Yes the nitrate is pretty much the same before and after. My tap comes out with about 15-20 of nitrate. In the 29 gallon I don't think it builds up enough between water changes to be a really noticble change. Maybe reached 25-30. The colors are so close. It is always between 15-30. In the 10 gallon it is more notiicble. After about a week of adding ammonia each night it goes from 20 to 40.

Okay yes -saw that and the epsom Q. Epsom salt is magnesium sulfate and is supposed to help release toxins from the body (people and fish actually). I should go ahead and add some if you have any. It really never hurts and you may be able to ward off dropsy symptoms if the infection is worse than we think. You can get it cheaply and easily at a pharmacy probably...

Don't use regular salt + epsom. Maybe its time to switch now...

The dosage Ranchu-girl recommends is very small. One quarter teaspoon per 10 gallons so half a teaspoon for 20 gallons. Don't overdo it as it can cause diarrohea in too large amounts but having said that you don't have to be totally exact!

Double post again. that's a good idea about using the water in the Qt! That's tough dealing with tap nitrates tho'.

Okay right now there is still 0.1% of regular aquarium salt in the 29 gallon. So I would have to do a 100% water change before I could add epsom salt. Or add it to the 10 gallon because there is no salt in there. I don't have any right now, but I can go out today and try to locate some. I know we aren't supposed to use store names here, but do you think that big chain store that starts with a 'W' would have it? Because mine is open all night. lol What do you think about this plan. I could add him to the 10 gallon temporarily. Either now or in a few hours? (like I said the ph is the 29 gallon is 8.2 and the ph in the 10 is 7.8 so I don't know if that's okay). Then I could do a 100% water change in the 29 gallon. Add epsom salt in there, then switch him back to the 29 gallon? I know it's two tank switches but I can't see another way to get all of the reg aquarium salt out. Maybe I am missing something? And finally. What are the black marks? Are they good like I assumed?

Yes, sorry got distracted and had to sign off for abit. The black marks are indeed no cause for alarm -they are ammonia (or medication) burns. Possible from the ich meds originally tried OR ammonia in the past. Because of the time it takes to repair slime coat these "burns" appear quite some time after the damage was done so are often called "healing" black. Not truly healing but indication of a past issue yes. They reach their peak and then vanish faster than they arrive usually

No- don't change him into a pH that different down. I wouldn't. I would just do a 50% change tonight in the 29 -go out for epsom- another 50% change on return or in the morning and you are there. Ready to add epsom.
Not sure about your w*t. I am in a different country although matter of fact we have w*ts here too. You could phone them first and ask ?

Okay sounds good. That's exactly what I will do then. My W.....t store is so close that I can just check and if not we have plenty of other stores nearby.

Yeah my tap water is very irrating with the nitrates and ammonia. It could turn out to be a problem in the long term but right now I think it should be okay as long as I just keep up with the water changes. And again the ph change is annoying.. I don't understand what causes it to go up after a few hours. And like you said, if you don't want to change them into a LOWER PH then its hard when doing water changes to get PH matched water. Using water from the 10 gallon would solve the ammonia and ph problems. The nitrates.. who knows but they don't seem to be an urgent issue right? And as for emergencies when I need tap water without giving it time to adjust what do you think about adding Ph up? I know ph down is tricky cause it can burn them. But if I am starting out with tap at 7.8 and I figured out the right dose of ph up to bring it to 8.2 would that be smart? Or would that just make the ph eventually rise to 8.6?

I am going to the store now and then do some water changing. I'll call GFC when they open in 4 hours. Looks like another strange sleep day for me. Thank goodness for school so I can sleep while my daughter is gone. Actually thank goodness I am not working currently! Basically without trying to I have adjusted my hours to when you are on Imogen LOL. When there are emergencies like this I always know you pop on around this time so I just push myself to stay up. Good news is I've been sleeping til about 3 pm so I am getting the correct amount of sleep just at odd hours LOL. My boyfriend thinks I am insane. He doesn't understand why I am trying so hard to save Sheldon. He says "if this one dies you shoudn't get any more!". At this point though, I finally have the advice and information to try to get it right! And if Sheldon doesn't get better, I think the only thing that would make it better is to get a new one. Not that we have to worry about that RIGHT I'm signing off now. I'll update tonight. Thanx

I think you're b-friend's comment is well-meaning. Kinder than the "well if he doesn't make it you can always get another" I hate that one!!!My DH is more like " if we didn't have fish we would have much more $". he complains about all the electricity, and the endless expense of ........doing things right!
And please don't let me be responsible for your not getting sleep at the right hours although I am very glad to help and hope to see Sheldon on his fish fins again soon. The water you have there from the tap is a bad start point with one fish anyway, too many fish and those starting nitrates would be Don't worry, once Sheldon improves you will be able to relax and enjoy him and also spend less time caring which is so tiring.

Well. i've completed a 50% water change. The water in the 10 gallon went up to 8.0 within 2 hours so I used that and then about 4 gallons of tap with a ph of 7.8. Overall after the change the ph in the 29 gallon was about 8.1. So thats good! When I turned the power strip off to do all the water changing, and the filter was off, Sheldon swam for me a little bit. Now he is back up hovering at the top, back up underneath the filter. Its not near an intake or anything though so I don't see the harm. I guess he's using it to block the current. Then I went out and bought epsom salt. Does it need to be added gradually? Or can I just put it all in at once. I refilled the 10 gallon before I went out and checked it again now. The Ph in there is 8.0 again so I should be able to do the other 50% water change any minute now and then I can add the epsom salt. At 10am I called Goldfish Connection. They overnighted the metro-meds. So I am hoping that he makes it until they get here, and that he is still eating when they do. As for my sleep schedule, I'm actually always like this. I always have problems sleeping normal hours. Its very natural for me to stay up til about 8 am, then sleep WHILE my daughter is at school. My boyfriend is the same way and he works from home except for once a week so he can sleep whenever he wants as well. We had tried to get back on a "normal" schedule since summer is coming and Taylor will be home, and it semi worked but I guess I just gravitated back to it while staying up online looking at koko's! lol So it's not just cause of you Imogen! : ) And yeah I do think my boyfriend means well. I just told him now that I spent $25 to overnight fish meds and he said he understands why I am working so hard to save THIS one but he doesn't understand why if he doesn't make it that I don't give up.. Progress I guess! lol K water change then sleep time. Hopefully I will have good news to report later on. Thanks!

Ugh, I hate my tap water. It's confusing. I'll get to that in a second though.

First of all I would like to know, Should I treat Sheldon with Prazi AND give him the metromeds when they come AND put epsom in the water? He's never been treated for flukes yet. The metromeds have shipped and say they will arrive 2 morrow. I already have the prazi pro from GFCToday. I noticed him flashing but I just assumed his scales are irrated with the black stuff and slime coat issues. Then he went back to floating lifelessly But would it be something I should do just in case? Right now the plan is to finish with water changes, then add the epsom, then feed metro-meds when they come 2 morrow. But let me know if you think I should be treating with prazi. And if so what the dose is and percentage and frequency of water changes during, etc. And can it be given with metromeds and epsom? I mean I'm at the point where I see something listed I see signs of it on Sheldon. Like for example one thread said "excessive yawning", and "spitting out food" means flukes. I always took it as deep breaths but it could very well be yawning. And he HAS been spitting out food when he first eats it. Eventually he gets it down though. He spits it out a bunch first though. Everyone seems to say prazi is harmless, but I don't want to overdo anything, but at the same time what if we were overlooking something like that? Earlier Trinket you said not to add ANY meds, so I haven't. Just wanted an opinion on the prazi.

K. Other thing is still just the annoyance of the Ph. I found a thread started by pinkspore. It describes almost the same exact issue I am having. I also saw that Trinket responded (just like she did to me) that slowly rising ph is okay. But I was wondering the same thing about matching tap Ph to a tank that has already risen. The response seemed to be as long as it's above 7 it's okay. So does that mean that if my tank is at 8.2. And my tap is at 7.8, then even if doing a big water change brought it down to 7.8 thats okay? Normally I can do smaller more frequent water changes to but there are times when a big one is needed and I don't know what to do. Like today. Here's the WEIRD thing. Bear with me on this.

Tap water directly from tap nothing added is about 7.8. Once the water sits in a tank. Any tank. 29 gallon, 10 gallon, 5 gallon, gravel, no gravel. Doesn't matter. It rises to 8.2 within a few hours. (I know I've said that a million times.) But this is the weird thing. I wanted to do a large. Like 60-70% water change right before adding the epsom. (This is to be in addition to the 50% change I did earlier). Just to make sure all the aquarium salt was gone. So I set out some buckets and jugs, GF bowls etc, and let them sit for a few hours, thinking they would rise. They went down instead! To 7.4! It just makes no sense! It cant be gravel I wouldn't think, because even the empty 5 gallon tanks that have NO gravel rise to 8.2. I only have carbon in the 29 gallon. Just a teeny amount which I am removing 2 night. The ph difference makes it very difficult to do a large water change. So, my overall question is, which I kind of asked earlier. Is it better to do a water change on a tank with a ph of 8.2 with water thats a ph of approx 7.8, so that the tank becomes 7.8 rather suddenly, then slowly climbs back to 8.2. Or is it better to use Ph up in order to get the tap water to match using that, THEN put it in the tank. And pinkspore have you had any luck figuring out what to do? Obviously though, it's best that I DON'T let the water sit in jugs or buckets for any length of time because that just brings the two further apart rather than closer together.

I am bolding because I know I write a lot and my questions get mixed in all the yammering. I wish I knew why the ph in the tanks goes up while the ph in the jugs, buskets, bowls goes down. I can think of only filters and aeration. As I said its not gravel because the 5 gallons have none. Maybe I can experiment with a rubbermaid and add only an airstone and see if that does it. Then only a filter. Something like that. And just to let you guys know, while I am full of questions and energy on here, I really AM giving Sheldon peace and quiet to recover. : ) I'm full of thoughts and doubts, but overall I try to leave him alone except for the water changes and food time. He's not doing well though. A few times I have thought he wasn't moving, but I can see him breathe. I really hope we can save him.

You should be able to feed the Metromeds and treat with the Prazi. I was very nervous about using the Prazi (had bad flukes earlier this year) but Daryl assured me it is gentle and very safe, and even if you OD it won't harm your fish. (I had trouble mixing the powder, so I put some tank water and the powder in a water bottle and shook it violently till they mixed somewhat–I believe it was Daryl who suggested that tip to me).

I am not sure about using the Epsom at the same time as the Prazi. I don't think it will hurt anything but I will double check just to make sure!

As for the pH issue, I have similar tapwater. I always have done very large changes and the fish (and amphibians) never seemed too affected by it. In theory you are not supposed to change the pH more than .01 degrees within a day, but I have done it with seemingly harmless results. That's not to say that it NEVER will hurt them, that's just been my experience. I've done this on sick fish I was treating, on fry tanks, and like I mentioned the very sensitive amphibians.

I shy away from those pH up or down products as they can really cause a whole lot more trouble than they prevent. I would say to start by doing smaller water changes, and if the fish don't seem affected you can gradually increase them. But I usually do at least 50% changes on my tanks, with that much of a pH difference, and they aren't affected.

It's true, fish have different pH sensitivities. You should try and see. You will soon know. If you do a larger w/c have some higher pH water nearby to put him in if he swirls or sinks or gasps (some common reactions). I always feel esp when a fish is sick larger water changes are a good and important thing but I understand the pH worry.
As for the epsom and prazi, these are fine together + metromeds, sounds like a very good plan. If you have never treated for flukes it must be done and it may be part of the problem. Flukes are the ones that would not have been killed and would remain (multiplying and) untouched when you did the 2 weeks at 0.3% salt.

Great! Thanks Jsrtist and Trinket! Knowing that you guys have not had a problem so far definitly reassured me. It's just so scary when they are sick because you don't want to do ANYTHING that might hurt them more.

Before I got your reponses I decided to take a course of action just based on my gut, and I hope you guys will give me the okay for it. I also think it will help me in the future with my nitrate and ph problems. I found that to some level, it was actually easier to do a 100% temperature matched water change, as opposed to having to carefully add a little at a time and not cause stress to Sheldon. I got a large bucket (in the future it will be an extra 10 gallon tank or rubbermaid. They are so cheap) and syphoned water out of the main tank into it. I added the airstrip and the thermometer, and I carefully placed Sheldon in the bucket TEMPORARILY. So he did not have any adjusting to do at all. He has gotten very used to me. I truly believe he is more comfortable with me moving him quickly than he is with the tank maintence. That really seems to freak him out.I emptied the tank, and refilled it with temperature matched water. I could do it much faster without him in there, because I did not have to worry about splashing or dumping the water in heavily or sucking him up. I just had him in a corner of the same room away from all the madness. So the temperature remained the same but he seemed MUCH calmer away from the action. I was able to do it all within 15 minutes. I added in my prime and let it sit for a little while. On it's own it is already up to 8.0. Which is close enough to move him back in, and he was only in the bucket for about an hour or so. It was very easy. And unless I am missing something, I believe that would actually be a good thing for weekly maintence under my circumstances. Every week I get to start fresh at 15 nitrates (I triple checked. Its 15 inititally, not 20). Therefore eliminating the nitrate buildup. And if small water changes during the week are neccessary, I can use the water that has been sitting in the 10 gallon. Is there any reason why this wouldn't work in your opinions? If so please correct me cause sometimes I have good ideas and sometimes bad. lol

Okay. Now that the tank is Aquarium salt free, I will treat with the prazi and epsom salt. The carbon is out, I am ready to go. Thanks Jsrtist, I was feeling a bit nervous about using prazi right now. But with both of you behind me I feel much better. I think I will add the prazi first. Then wait til the morning to add the salt. And hopefully soon after the metromeds will be here! He is still eating. It's more difficult to get him to, but he will do it. He's having a harder time so I've been breaking the pellets in half for him. I attempted to give him a pellet just now by hand to see how he would respond. He will take it from me if I hold it in my fingers and allow him to come up an nibble. Goldfish have such personality. Can't wait to see how he repsonds to the meds 2 morrow. I'll be updating (as always).

Sheldon has taken a turn for the worse. Last night he just got terrible all of a sudden. He won't eat, he won't swim and he looks like he is incredibly skinny. To some degree it looks like he has pop eye, but in another sense I think he just got so skinny that it is making his eyes look like are protruding. He looks so bad. His gills are moving very strangley and I don't know how I am going to get him to eat this food. It hasn't come yet but it is scheduled to arrive today. I wish I had ordered it one day earlier because it may have made all the difference. Now I am going to have to try to make him eat it. I cried for like an hour last night. (Yes I am a bit emotional). Until now he has been responding to me and eating and to see him get this bad so fast is just so sad. I put in the epsom and the prazi. He did this BEFORE they were added so I don't believe it has anything to do with those. I had to unplug the filter for a few hours overnight. I know thats bad, but it was literally slamming him around the tank. I left the airstrip in though so there would be aeration. The filter was actually drawing him into the water out flow section and he was flowing down it like a water fall. As neccessary as the filter is, THAT seemed bad, so I just did what I thought was right. I hope it was okay. Now I am going to add the old filter back to the tank which is 200 so it won't be so rough on him. I honestly did not expect to see him alive this morning. I can't believe what a fighter he is. I think I found another ulcer on him. And he's getting sort of black and blue in spots. Poor little guy.

He won't. I can't do it. I read an old thread. Pixie said to lift the fish above the water line and put it in his mouth. It's not working. He doesn't open his mouth big enough. It won't go in and he won't eat it. I came so close to buying everything last week sometime just in case, and if I had i could have fed him yesterday while he was still eating. I don't know what to do. Can I lift him competely out of the water? He still doesn't open his mouth big enough for the pellet. He's just a tiny tiny fish. Even cutting it up its too big for him. I soaked it but it just won't work. There is no way he will go get it from the bottom on his own. Help! He does NOT open his mouth when I lift him above the water line! How long does it take for them to open their mouth? I don't want to kill him by leaving him out of the water too long but he won't open!!!!!

Dying goldfish no longer need help. Sheldon died about an hour ago, I just couldn't write it. He died while I was trying to feed him the metromeds, and my first thought of course was "I KILLED HIM". But I've calmed myself down a little. He wasn't even out of the water when he died. He never would open his mouth for the food, and I didn't want to risk keeping him out of the water too long. So I tried putting my hand IN the tank, and letting him rest on my hand so he wouldn't be struggling to move, but below the water so it wouldn't hurt him, and then I put a small piece of pellet also resting on my hand right near his mouth. I believe he tried to get it, but he was just too weak. It's very hard not thinking things like "I did this!" or "what if I had done this or that" but I am trying not to. In a weird way I am glad the food came in time even though he wouldn't eat it, because otherwise I would have been thinking "what if the food had made it". And it's kind of sad but cute that I was with him when he died. He must have just been so much worse internally than we knew. The original spot where he had the ulcer or open sore turned very dark. I found another tiny ulcer on his belly, and by the end of it his eyes were completely popping out. His little body lost about half his weight in about 12 hours. Okay I think thats all I can write right now, I just wanted to let you guys know. Thanks so much for all the help you guys have given me. I believe without you I would have lost him 3 weeks ago to the Ich. I am very very sad. It's hard walking past the tank. I've been doing "sheldon" stuff so much for the last few weeks it's just weird him not being there. K crying again gotta go.

Oh Sue I am so sorry to hear that!!! You worked so hard to save him... your poor baby was so sick when you came here and you did all you could-- we all did-- to try to help him. I am devastated that little Sheldon didn't make it.

Losing a fish is very hard, especially after a long, difficult treatment. Most of us have experienced it and it never gets easy. I'm almost in tears right now for you. My heart goes out to you.

I hope you feel better soon. I want you to know that you did NOT kill him. You did the opposite but the disease was too strong. You should be PROUD of what you did for him; all the love you gave him. He is a fish that was greatly loved-- that is usually a consolation for me. At least one person in the world loved him.

Joy

Oh no! I am so sorry.

But I am so happy for Sheldon that he was able to spend his last moment resting in your hand. I am sure it was so comforting to him. I have to believe the he knew how hard you were working to save him and loved you for it. (I think that is why so many of us keep goldfish -- instead of cichids or oscars or whatever -- they know us and we can just see in their faces that they love us.)

Anyway, we all understand the depth of your loss. In a small way it is our loss too, because we have been rooting for you and Sheldon the past few weeks. Please do stick around and stay in touch. Maybe someday you will feel ready to open your heart to another fish, and we will be here to help you when you do.

Oh no, I am so sorry to hear that. I was really, really hoping for better news today. Please know that you did all you could for him which is much, much more than most people would ever do for a goldfish. I know that not much is very comforting right now but at least he is no longer suffering. And it's okay to cry over a fish, I have done it many times. (And hermit crabs, and mice, and frogs...) And I know you still always think, maybe if I had done this or maybe if I had gotten to him one day sooner.

Even veterinarians often are making their best guesses, and that is all we can do too. I hope you are feeling better.

Awww Sue, I am so sorry. I have been following this thread from the beginning praying your little guy would make it. From what I can see you and those helping you have done everything possible. I am truly in awe of the dedication you have shown in trying to save Sheldon. You were a great "mom" to him and at least he had someone who loved him and will grieve for him.
Swim free and fast on silver angel wings little Sheldon.
Kathy

OH NO!!!!!! I am so sorry!

I just read all 6 pages of this post. All of the problems you had had originally, then the ich, the ph issue, the nitrates............ and Sheldon had gotton over the WORST case of Ich I had EVER seen....... and you staying up all night with him. I have to say you are definately THE MOST dedicated fish owner I have ever seen!

My heart goes out to you and I can feel your pain. When I read your last post I also shed tears ........... not so much for Sheldon because now he is in the most peaceful, pristene waters ever created and he is swimming strong and his stuggles are over.......... but I shed the tears for you, the one he had to leave behind. You worked so hard, you did all you could, most importantly you did it all with LOVE for Sheldon! I am sure the love you gave Sheldon was what gave him the streangth to win his battle with Ich and what gave him that huge fighting spirit, and what a HUGE spirit that little fish had.!. Sheldon is a beautiful fish and will live on in your memory forever. I beleive all the people and creatures that come into our lives are here for a purpose and Sheldon definately taught me some great lessons..... don't let yourself forget the lessons he taught you.

Sheldon is definately one of the luckiest fish ------ to have a human like you to call his own! Swim free Sheldon, you will live on forever in the memories and hearts of all the folks that have read your story. Swim free....Swim happy!

Tears here too. It's hard to see the keyboard. I read your post about holding him and him not eating and the tears started then and now reading zookey's beautiful words above I am crying again.

Sue, these special fish (and my goodness Sheldon was a special one with so much fight and spirit) teach us so much. They are never forgotten because they bring us to the hobby. You know so much now, you have your water all sorted and two tanks set up. I really hope there are more fishpets in your future because you are so careful and good at this.

Without you Sheldon would not have survived that terrible ich. Looking back at that ich picture now it is quite the miracle he ever did. I have seen fish with less ich than that not make it. All credit to you. You were meticulous about changing his water, salting carefully and nursing him through many nights and days. He ate well for you and tried his d*est to get better. We never truly know what is going on inside a fish however and my guess is that Sheldon's problems were multilayered and deep rooted & that even the MMs would not have helped.

I am deeply sorry Sheldon did not make it but you should be proud of the love you showed for him. There are not enough people like you in the world

Rest now beautiful little Sheldon.

Thank you- ALL of you guys for all of your kind words. It means soo soo much to hear everything you have all said, and it makes me feel so good to hear you guys say you are proud of me, and to hear all of you say how much you were rooting for Sheldon. It feels so good knowing you all care so much, especially some of you that I haven't even spoken to before this. I'm crying again now, but a part of me is crying happy tears knowing that you guys all care so much. My boyfriend and I and a few of our friends had concert tickets 4 tonight. When Sheldon died, my boyfriend said "it's okay - you don't have to go. I know how upset you are". And I just thought I HAVE to go because otherwise I will just keep passing the tank and thinking about him. He really took care of me today, and never once made me feel like it was "just a fish". One of you said how so many people keep goldfish because they really show that they know you and are aware. (I just went back through, it was Acupunk). It's so true. They have this special quality that I never knew fish had. I think all goldfish do, but there are still those particular ones that have an extra special touch. Sheldon had that and I knew it the moment I got him. And he really was such a fighter. I am amazed at how strong he was, and how long he fought. And thanks to each of you because you guys are the reason that I was able to keep him around so long, and get that extra time with him. I have so many pictures and videos of him, I will never forget him.

Of course my first thought was "I'm done! I can't get more fish". Or like I said earlier "What if this..." or "What if I KILLED HIM?". But pretty quickly I got a calm feeling and I just told myself (basically everything you've all said) that I did everything I could, and he did everything he could. And I also got a feeling of, if he was going to go, I am so glad I was holding him, and I am glad he isn't hurting anymore. And I do know I will keep more fish. These last couple weeks, as stressful as they have been, I have really enjoyed doing this. Before I came to this website I got some terrible information, and lots of contradictions. And a lot of people that just didn't care to help. I liked having them but it just seemed so impossible to get right. You've all been so terrific. All of your comments made me feel even more confident that I want to continue keeping fish. I feel so much more prepared now. And I know you will help me when I am ready. I honestly believe it will be sooner than later. The empty tanks are sad.. It's a reminder that he is gone. Seeing another crazy little guy swimming around will help ease that some I think.

It's sad. You know how sometimes you get used to something so much that when it changes you sort of forget? Right before I got home I thought to myself "I wonder how Sheldon is". Just for like a second. And when I got home in that weird way I expected him to be there. It was so sad. And even though I am really exhausted I thought, "let me just sign on koko's to see if anyone wrote". It felt so good to have so many of you write. Thank you all so so much. I'm so glad I found this board. I'm not going anywhere : ) Goodnight everyone!

Oh Sue I just want to reach through the internet and hug you!! It's wonderful that your boyfriend was so understanding about it.

Our lost fish will always have a special place in our hearts, no matter what. But there is always room for another special fish in our hearts, too.

Awwwww!!!! Welcome Angel And what a beautiful story leading to her. All the prompts were right huh?

Sue- would you like me to move this post to make a new thread for you as nobody much visits these older threads in d & d and you will get more comments and chat in another forum. I know everyone will want to hear about Angel and see pics when you can so..what do you think?

Sure Trinket! Thanks. I just really didn't know where to put it : ) That will work out great because then I can just put the pictures in there too.