[*]Test Results for the Following:
[b]Ammonia Level : 0
Nitrite Level: 0
Nitrate level: [/b]unsure
Ph Level, (If possible, KH and GH and chloramines) 7.6, hardness 230ppm
Ph Level (KH/GH) out of the Tap 7.6
[b]Brand of test-kit used? (strips or drops?) [/b]drops nutrafin
[*]Tank size (How many Gals) and How long has it been running? 10 gal quarantine ~2 mon , main 55 gal 4 months
[*]What is the name and size of the filter/s? 10 gal small fluval, 55 gal has a fluval 305
[*]How often do you change the water and how much? quarantine tank 20-50% daily + 100% weekly, 55 gal ~30-40% weekly




[*]How many fish in the tank and their size? black moor ~2", calico fantail ~1"
[*]What kind of water additives or conditioners? jungle conditioner for chlorine and chloramines
[*]Any medications added to the tank? yes
[*]Add any new fish to the tank? both are new, plants
[*]What do you feed your fish? peas/vegetables, flakes, freezer worms, freeze dried shrimp and tubafix worms

Any unusual findings on the fish such as
[b]"grains of salt", bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? [/b]started with ich
[*]Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating,ect..? a bit sluggish, rare flashing



2 months ago we set up a 55 gallon tank for our 2 yr old fantail Badonna. We purchased a black moor, which we named 2-Bit, and quarantined it for 1 month. He looked to be in perfect condition so we moved him in with Badonna. until his introduction we had no idea what sex either of them were, but his tubercles appeared and he started chasing and bumping Badonna. she was quite frazzled for the first couple of days but things calmed. A week after his intro we bought a tiny calico fantail and put it in the quarantine tank. We noticed immediately that it had dropsy but was active and happy otherwise. I knew it was common in goldfish but had no idea it was so fatal so I chose to keep it and treat it. LFS's in our area (small town) don't get fish in very often and when they do it's a sad situation. Anyways the LFS sent us home with Parasite Clear by Jungle (praziquantel, difluorobenzamide, metronidazole, acriflavine) to treat him, package says its for internal and external parasites.

At that time Badonna and 2-Bit started to become lethargic and ill looking so we did a large water change even though all the test results were good. For a couple of days they got worse, they hid all day and only came out for food. That's when I noticed they had ich, Badonna had the worst case of it I've ever seen. 2-Bit started to look grey and Badonna's fins started to fray. I decided to move the calico into a bucket and put Badonna and 2-Bit into the quarantine tank. I treated them with Ich-X (formaldehyde, methanol, malachite green chloride) after the first 12 hours both were spot free. 2 days into it Badonna died. On the third day of treatment 2-Bit's condition was much worse (the grey color became stringy, red on his underside, more lethargic) so I emptied the tank, disinfected it and put him back without meds. He perked up right away.

I ended up having to put the calico in the tank too unfortunately. I couldn't see his condition in the bucket, couldn't keep kids and pets away from it so I couldn't medicate it. I kept them un-medicated in salted water for a few days. 2-Bit looked really good at this point, rich black color again, no more red belly, more active. I decided to treat with parasite clear to do something for the dropsied calico. As per the instructions I put in a tab, waited 48 hours, changed the water and added another tab. today it is 48 hours since that tab. I found out today that dropsy is usually bacterial not parasitic. OMG. I am also learning the value of research over LFS's bright ideas. both fish have been a bit less active although still always on the move it just doesn't have the same vigor. Through out these series of unfortunate events their poops have varied from one day to the next, from white to clear with food colored flecks in it to normal.



so now you know the history I'll get to the point. This morning I noticed white specks on the glass of the tank. Looking closely they appear to be clear blobs of varying sizes with barely visibly white flecks in it, attached to the glass yet floating in the wind. And there is a lot of them.



Has anyone seen anything like this before? Could it be ich eggs? Can the naked eye see jelly blobs of ich eggs? If any one has any thoughts I would really appreciate your help before I make anymore mistakes!

They're probably not ick eggs. I'd say they are either algae growth (starts out clearish) or planaria (harmless but gross worms).

Can you get a pic? Do they look like the pic below?



Also, you need to quarantine your dropsied fish. Add EPSOM salts (NOT regular salt) in intervals of .1%, up to .3% (1 TSP per gallon = .1%). The medication you should be using is Maracyn 2.

A moderator will come shortly to help you more.

Hi Spaticus Jean and welcome to kokos

Sorry to hear you are having some probs, hopefully we can clear some of the muddle up and get your fish better. It seems there are several different problems here. Let's take them one at a time.

First of all, do you understand the nitrogen cycle? To confirm that you have 2 cycled tanks here we need to know your nitrAte levels. These are an important indication of water quality and cycle completion. If you are unsure, plse take a look at the link in my sig that explains it. Tanks can take longer than 2 months to cycle sometimes -if the QT is cycled I am wondering why the daily water changes and weekly 100% changes, must be very tricky juggling meds dosage. Could you clear this up a bit as I am a bit confused on that.

Second- the eggs you see. You said your male was chasing your female fish, could these be goldfish eggs? Goldfish eggs are small, approx the size of this blue circle in brackets (o) They are hard jelly like things that stick like superglue to the tank sides. If they are unfertilised or fungused (diseased) they will have a white center. There are usually a LOT of them, can be 100s but the fish will eat them all if they are left. This causes HUGE water problems and necessitates 80% water changes for several days to get the water back good.

Third- the disease problems. Yes dropsy can most definitely be caused by parasites and I think (this time) your LFS was corect to suggest the PC tabs for a new dropsied fish. Metronidazole in those is an antibiotic that is often very good for some kinds of bacterial dropsy too. The PC tabs are good. Keep with them. You can add epsom salt to the water for the dropsy to the tune of 1/4 of a teaspoon per 10 gallons. It doesn't take much. Epsom salts is baking soda, not regular salt. They are used for different situations. Dropsy is best with epsom. (Regular salt is dosed at 1 teaspoon per gallon)

Trinket knows WAYYYY more than me, so I'm sorry about the poor advice.

It's always up to the poster what advice he takes and you may be right tofj with the Maracyn 2, I just feel all fish should get some prazi (in the PC tabs) when they arrive and parasites should be treated first if both parasites and bacteria are a possibility (the new fish).

You're right Imo-- parasites before bacteria. Parasites can continue the bacterial infection, so first get rid of the ones causing the damage, and then heal the damage.

Good luck SpaticusJean.

Thank you for your quick responses.

I have done a 100% water change when I switch the fish and before starting a new med. it's just worked out to be about once a week. I didn't think that I could mix the medications. I have done the partial water changes as per medication instructions. With ich-x it instructed daily before a new dose. Parasite clear has instructed to wait 48 hours before a partial water change and adding a new dose which I have done. Otherwise I have done it daily because after 24 hours the test results show ammonia. Should I leave it longer? I can't mix Epsom salts with regular salts can I? I am still waiting for LFS to get nitrate tests in.

These egg things are far to small to be fish eggs, the white flecks in the jelly are miniscule. Since they got ill there has been no breeding activity and it was the female who passed away. I don't know if it could be algae, it is possible, but it doesn't resemble the picture of planaria.



As for the dropsied fish- I am relieved to hear I used the right meds. Package says to treat up to 2 times with 48 hours and a 25% water change between treatments. For anchor worms and fish lice repeat treatment up to 3 times, using once a week with a 25% water change. I've done the 2 treatments, waiting 48 hrs etc, should I stop there? When you say keep with it should I give them another round of treatments?



Thanks so much for your help.

Just stay the course (as directed) and watch closely for any signs of improvement. Up to 2 times means no more usually. You may be done. Always give priority to clearing the tank of ammonia before meds. Ammonia + meds is a killer.

How are they all? Updates always help. Especially how they are all behaving...flashing, scratching, bottom sitting etc and any new body marks.

Hmmm, I wonder what those white egg things are then .

Both fish are doing well, dropsied fella remains fat. They are active and happy despite all they've been through.
The clear blobs have not changed since I first noticed them, hopefully it is the start of some kind of algae.

I am unclear if i should epsom salts alone or epsom salt and regular salt together?

No, don't mix them. Use epsom salts alone. The measurement you'll need is what Trinket suggested above. Get a jug of tank water, and dissolve into it 1/4 TSP per gallon. For instance, for a 10gallon tank, you would dissolve 2.5 TSPs of epsom salts. Make sure the salt crystals are completely dissolved before adding it back into the tank.

are you sure its 1/4 tsp per gallon? trinkets post says 1/4 tsp per 10 gallons

I don't believe that was the concentration I used when my fish had dropsy, but too little is better than too much.

my little dropsied fish is still fat. How can you ever tell if what caused it is cured? He is a bit thin behind the gills (which are still red) considering how round his belly is and his scales have never stood out. He is still very active! He has been in Epsom salts for 7 days, would you expect to see a change in that amount of time? Should I be doing something else?

Are you absolutely sure your fish is dropsied? Only a dropsied fish will never usually be active and behaving normally. Dropsy is a final stage symptom of disease and the scales of the fishes skin will be standing out and rough looking. If your fish is just bloated she may be full of eggs or constipated. The metronidazole in the PC tabs you have finished doing deals well with disease related bloat so I would consider either eggs or constipation now. Have you seen any poop from this fish and if so what was it like? Normal?

Epsom salts and the dosage for dropsy or bloat is explained well in this thread in the treatment section.

Thank you for the link.

When I first got the fish its poops were always different- normal, white, clear, clear with food colored blobs. I was feeding flakes for a couple of days; it had a couple of long poops that were a pale food color. Then it seemed to come out blobby, like a string of sausages. I gave it a piece of garlic yesterday and since then it has been long, thin, white and zig-zaggy. Trying to describe fish poop is interesting!
A few days after I bought it I looked in the store I got him from and noticed all his tank mates were fat. some dead, some pine coned. From what I remember allot of them were skinny behind the gills.

Ammonia 0

Nitrites 0

Nitrates 5



GF certainly shows signs of constipation. I’ve fasted it for 3 days and have begun feeding peas. The first day of fasting its poops were super thin, zig zaggy and bright white, since then it’s been fat and an off white color. As of yet there is no change in swelling. I fasted it when I bought it too. I guess I will try again in a few days.



The parasite eggs seem to be algae. It spreads like algae and acts like it in every other way but it is remaining clearish. Silly me!

photo

S-J fish eggs will look like the above pic. Do they?

If there's no change in swelling after fasting i sometimes try the opposite approach "overfeed" this can also push baddies out and clear the tract. The white poop you are seeing is sloughed off white immune cells telling you (if these continue more than a few days) that your fish may have an internal infection or is not 100% anyway. Especially since the fish in the same tank were dieing or sick..it's a very good sign your fish is behaving normally, I think I would be tempted to feed him up with lots of nutritious varied foods (try krill, frozen brine shrimp, peas ) to combat an attacked immune system.

That's a picture I submitted of my fat fish! Do you believe it could be eggs? When it eats it swells allot more so I'm very cautious of how much I feed them.

I've moved both gf into the 55 gal. While no one was living in it wildlife flourished, we've noticed snails, planaria and copepods. I've looked them all up and found them to be harmless but from now on I'm quarantining plants instead of trying to rinse them. I've worked hard at vacuuming extra but theses critters multiply despite that. The gf have had nothing but live food for a few days and they have definitely over eaten. I have never seen the fat one so fat but it shows no signs of distress and its poops are quite normal.

I'm wondering if, since all the fish from lfs had the same swelling, could it have been cured of what ever caused it and this is just what he's going to be like now?

Those are goldfish eggs hun Your fish is a fertile female and will bottom sit or hang at the top for a few days and then spew this ton of eggs. Then she'll eat them. Unfortunately this causes terrible repeated problems with the water. Nitrites or ammonia will show up and you need to be meticulous in checking for those as these are killers. You also need to NOT feed when you see the eggs since she will gorge on those and they are very rich and high calorie making her then bloat.