We've been treating our goldfish for fin rot with several courses of different medications including melafix, maracyn, Fungus clear, using salt in the water...all with not much result though he is still living. He looks sicker when being treated for the most part and livens up when the medicine is out of the water. He is not acting sick now (though he did at the beginning before we started treating for the one tail split and his acting lethargic) but has about 5 places where the tail fin has been damaged and now I just noticed that his lower fins are starting to have spots too. I'm not sure whether the medicines have slowed the progression of whatever it is...but it definitely has not gone away. We did a tank change about 2 months ago, and I treated with Fungus clear, 2 courses over about a week and a half as directed (since he acts normal with this medicine) and kept the charcoal filter out while treating. I thought that he may have been responding, but now noticed the spots. To answer the details above:

not sure of the levels since I don't usually test them...but if I need to I'll purchase the equipment
10 gallons
Whisper Power Filter 20
We change 2 gallons of water once a week
He is the only fish in the tank and is about 8 inches long now
There is no med being used now and no new fish
He eats Tetra Fin Goldfish flakes or Wardleys Floating Goldfish Pellets...fed twice a day
He has bloody looking spots and marks near the splits in his tail fin...the red spots look a bit velvety and there are now new ones on his bottom fins
Amazingly he is eating fine and acting normal...at the moment...though he has had periods when he acts lethargic and I try to start treating the problem again.

Please...any idea you can give would be most helpful and appreciated since he is a dear family pet and only about 3 years old-Thank you!

You've definitely come to the right place. There are very knowledgeable people here who will offer you great advice.

I'm a bit newer and still learning myself, so I won't try to diagnose your situation.

One important thing would be to get a water test kit -- a drop kit (like API Master Test). Water readings will be extremely helpful to those who will come along to assist!

Good luck!

It sounds like it could possibly be a flex bacterial infection. However, I myself am not very knowledgeable about fish diseases, so please wait for a moderator or helper to come along.

You mentioned you've been treating with a lot of different medications in the past. Did you use them all at the same time? I don't think that some of them are compatible with others... that may be why your fish was worse on the meds than off.

I'd also like to add that your tank is VERY overstocked--- an 8" fish needs way more than 10 gallons!-- and since you haven't been testing for ammonia, nitrites or nitrates, it could be that the water itself is making your fish sick. Try to get a drop test kit IMMEDIATELY and let us know what your parameters are.

Also, try to get some pictures so we can help you diagnose.

Hello ormation and welcome to Koko's! Sorry to hear that your fish is ill, but it seems like you've got a lot of overmedication going on right now. FungusClear is pretty harsh...I know as I almost killed my fish with it. Marycyn and melafix can be excellent meds if your fish has what they are prescribed for. All of these meds are turning your tank water into a sort of toxic soup. You have to imagine the water in your tank as the "air" the fish breathe, which it literally is.

My first suggestion to you would be as uberleslie advised, and that is to get an API drop tester, and quickly. Your water params are critical for anyone to be able to advise or diagnose your fish.

Two gallons of water once a week is unfortunately not enough water changing, especially if your fish is having problems.An 8-inch fish in a 10 gallon tank needs at least 50% water changing 2 or 3 times a week. Goldies have a huge waste output, and an 8-inch fish needs somewhat more space, but lets get the water straight first.

The first thing I would do is use some carbon in the filter and take the meds out of the water. You should really do a 75-100% water change immediately. Please make sure its temperature and ph matched and dechlorinated to keep the fish from going into shock. Truly, many problems with goldfish stem from poor water conditions. The saying here at Koko's is "If you take care of the water, the water takes care of the fish", and it is a true statement. If you have any gravel, you will need to do a thorough vacuuming to get the bad bacteria out, but in a 10 gallon with such a large fish, I'd try to remove him to a bucket of tank water while you do this so he doesn't have to ingest the gunk that comes out.

This is a lot to do, and we can talk about medically salting the tank after we get your water params and you've done the large wc.

Good luck and post back soon!

Hi there and welcome.

The girls have given you excellent advice about tank size and water changing.

It seems likely that with such a big fish in only a 10g, and only 2g weekly water-changes, the water will be carrying a high organic load - under these conditions the tank can easily become toxic and bacterial infections are set to move in. Add to that a cocktail of medications and your fish is fighting quite a lot of stressors.

It is essential to have water readings before venturing to make a diagnosis - some diseases share identical symptoms with the effects of bad water quality - so without knowing more about the water chemistry, it is pure guess work.

As already suggested, a drop-test kit it would be the best type to get and if you can post back with your results we'll see what we can do to help. Any chance of a well focussed pic, too?

Thanks sooo much for all of the useful advice! I plan to go out on Monday after work and purchase a test kit (my kids were in a play all weekend and I was a bit distracted) My daughter does the water change on Sunday...is it still ok to test the water on Monday? I'll try to take a picture with my daughter's digital camera and have her download it...but I'm a newbie at this and am not sure how it will turn out...but it's a good idea and I'll try. We have actually done a complete water change about 3 months ago and got a new filter (which I was told was more powerful than the original one for a 5-10 gallon...this one they told me was for 10-20 gallons) which was after we had tried to treat with all of those different medications...which we did do one at a time, separated by about 1-2 weeks each time, using the charcoal filter each time after changing the 2 gallons which in hindsight probably was not enough time in between. However, the water should be clear now except for the residue from the Fungus clear which we finished a short time ago. This fish started out about an inch long and has grown at what to me seems an astronomical rate...but I thought he would not outgrow his tank which seemed huge after his tank mate passed on over a year ago(probably from this same illness) and we elected not to get another fish. We did a complete water change then and hoped that he would escape whatever killed his tank mate. Thanks again and I'll update after I test the water on Monday.

Hi-this is Ormation again,

i just dipped the water and now I'm really nervous...the Nitrate level is 200 (which it says is dangerous), the Nitrite level is 1.0, Hardness is 300, Chlorine is 0, Alkalinity is 40, and pH is 6.8. How do you change these levels? Help! ~Ormation

Hi-this is Ormation again,

i just dipped the water and now I'm really nervous...the Nitrate level is 200 (which it says is dangerous), the Nitrite level is 1.0, Hardness is 300, Chlorine is 0, Alkalinity is 40, and pH is 6.8. How do you change these levels? Help! ~Ormation

EDIT:
I have merged these threads - we need to stick to one topic per subject to keep all the relevant info together
Pixie

The first thing that you need to is a large (80-90%) water change. This will bring nitrate and nitrite down. Then you need to add something to your water to bring your KH up to about 100. This will help prevent your pH from drifting too low. Most people find this product to be the best:
https://www.goldfishconnection.com/shop/det...44&catId=24

Finally, you should get drop-type tests, rather than dip-sticks. The sticks are notoriously inaccurate.

Good luck!

I'm also going to suggest testing your tap water for nitrItes and nitrAtes

It looks like you have the 5 in 1 test strips. What is your ammonia reading? The 5 in 1's are pretty inaccurate, and you'll need a drop tester for ammonia readings.

Acupunk is correct that a large immediate water change needs to be done quickly. Make sure it is temperature matched and dechlorinated.

Hi, this is Ormation again,

I did about a 50% water change and changed the charcoal filter. I tried out the ammonia drop kit and learned that after the change the water is at .25 for ammonia. Per the dip test strip (are there drop kits out there that test for more than one thing other than the strips?) Nitrate is down from 200 to 80, Nitrite from 1 to .5 Alkalinity was 40 and stayed the same, and the pH is still at 6.8. The girl from the pet shop also told me to put in Aqua plus tap water conditioner. So...what (other than a picture) is the next step? Another water change...and when would be best? Also, is this the best way to report what I do or should I post this a different way? I also want to thank everyone for all of their help so far- I really appreciate it! ~Ormation

This is ormation again. I have some pictures downloaded to our computer on the desktop but I'm not sure how to attach them. When I drag them into this box, they don't stick. Any ideas?

Use a host like photobucket.com!
Then it's much easier to post pics.

Thanks sooo much "OldHag":-) The pictures are now on photobucket and I would really appreciate any ideas of what to do to treat our fish. The address is: http://s303.photobucket.com/albums/nn134/ormation/

Thanks! Ormation

Your fish is beautiful!
I recently had a fish, a big comet, with fin problems, and I used antibacterial medicine.
He is now fine and the tail fin is regrowing.
We probably don't have the same medications, since I am in Sweden.

But your tank is small and your fish is big, you need to do a lot of waterchanges.

Hello again.
Having now seen your water results, I think it is fair to say that water quality is your most likely cause for the fin problems. It's possible that the various meds you have added may have killed off the good bio-bugs and crashed your nitrogen cycle. Anette is right when she says that water changes are the answer. In such a small space, your big fish will be producing a lot of waste and much larger water changes are needed to keep the organic load down and also to detoxify your current water chemistry.
You need to aim for zero ammonia and nitrite and to keep nitrates under 40 - below 20 is preferable.
I think it is important to get hold of drop testers as the strips are really unreliable; this is the point at which you need the most precise results.
Your tank PH you say is 6.8 which is really too low. Can you tell us what your tap reading is? This will indicate whether or not your cycle has crashed or if you need to add something to raise alkalinity.
Let us know. Just add new posts to this thread - that way we have all the important info in one place

thanks for the info Pixiefish. My tap water has a pH of 8.4 and the ammonia in the tank has stayed the same today but the Nitrates and Nitrites have increased to 40 and 1.0 respectively. The tail fin looks reddened all over the end and there are more bloody streaks than before. Thank heavens he is still acting normal! How often can I change the water without shocking him? I plan to get more water containers so that I can do more than a 5 gallon water change at a time...though I don't like to let him get that low before I add more since he is so big. Little did I know that that one inch fish would outgrow a 10 gallon tank! Another factor that I don't know about is that my daughter (who is the true owner of the goldfish:-) turns his light on at about 6am and it stays on all day until she goes to bed at around 9pm. Would that be a problem for him other than massive algae growth (which I help her get off the sides of the tank:-) Is there something that I should do to help reduce the redness other than the water changes? Or does that have to wait until the water is stabilized? Thank you Anette for the kind words and for helping me to figure out about the pictures...this has truly been a learning experience since I'm not very computer literate. Also, what does "fast reply" mean as opposed to "reply"? Thanks in advance for answering all of my questions! ~Ormation

It is a common misconception that water changes shock fish - providing the water is temperature and PH matched, this is exactly what your fish needs; it is the raised levels of amm/nit/nate which cause the fish distress.
However, the gap between your Tap (8.4) and Tank PH (6.8) indicates that your cycle has crashed. So in order to adjust him slowly, you must make a lot of small changes during the course of a day to totally replace all the water and gradually bring the tank PH up to the tap.
Thereafter, you must test the water every day and change volume accordingly. Nitrite of 1ppm is very dangerous for your fish. Considering your 8.4 PH, you must be extremely careful about ammonia as it becomes increasingly toxic the higher the Ph. No need to alter the PH, just keep the ammonia from climbing.
So water changes are you main job right now - also getting proper testers.

How is your shubunkin these days, Ormation? Btw, that is a beautiful fish!