I've evacuated the fish to an established tank and let the 50 gallon do it's thing. So far it has gone maybe 4 days without any water change, previously I was doing a minimum of 50% per day trying to keep it livable for the fish.

Two days ago the ammonia was at 1ppm, today it is 0.5. Nitrites remain at 0, Nitrates at 5ppm.

The pH is up to 8.4. Two days ago it was 8.2, from the tap it's 7.4. Why is it going so high? Is it part of cycle? Will it level off somewhere or will it keep going up forever?

It levels out I don't think water pH can keep going on up for ever. 9 seems to be tops..and most unusual.

As I have said before I don't think you need to be worrying about pH going up slowly. It is pH going down that kills fish mostly, an alkaline water is far less dangerous. A change up of 2 points in 2 days is absolutely fine and dandy.

In fact 8.4 is fine and dandy too. Beneficial bacteria thrive in a high pH which is a very positive side-effect of high pH. The negative side effect is that ammonia is far more toxic at high pH so that is the biggest worry here I think with the ammonia showing.

Without knowing a whole lot more about your individual set up it's hard to say exactly why it is going up.

What is the temp of the tank? Like Trinket said, the high pH in itself does not pose any imminent danger but the combo of high pH, relatively high temp, and the presence of ammo can be dangerous.

The tank is a 55 gallon, been trying to cycle for a month with no progress, was previously doing 50% wc daily to keep the ammonia livable for the fish, have since removed the fish. Running an Aquaclear 70 (300 gph) and Aquaclear 50 (200 gph) with just sponges and little cylinders of media, Aquaclear 50 came off established tank.

I've got river rocks, a few marbles, some fake plants, and a couple of ornaments in there. The tap water reads: ammo 1ppm, nitrite 0, nitrate 5ppm, pH7.4. The tank has consistantly read the same except for the pH which has been 8.4. I've been using Amquel+.

I know slow rises in pH are ok, but with the huge difference in tap water the pH crashes to 7.4 every time I do a wc. I absolutely do not have the space to let that much water sit out, and after a month of lugging buckets of water and spending my entire evening changing water every day I finally got a Python. It was that or physical therapy. How can I do water changes with the Python when my tap and tank water are so different in pH?

The temperature of the tank is around 68 degrees most of the time, it probably drops lower at night. We're in southern California on the coast so it just doesn't get cold enough for a heater.

One other possibility could be the filter media you are using. A couple of years ago, I was using a certain low cost brand of activated carbon (that would be best to remain nameless here) that would raise the PH well above 8. Once I stopped using it, the Ph is more stable around 7.8-7.9

I don't have any activated carbon in there right now, is that a problem? All that's in the filters is sponges and some Fluval biological filtrations tubes.

That's actually good then. The only time carbon is really needed is when removing medications after treating for an illness.

May be the "ornaments". What are they made of, do you know? Resins, limestone etc release carbonates that increases pH.

Doing a 50% water change the pH then matches the tap at 7.4?

I would have thought at 50% it would mix and be around 7.9 at first. Halfway I personally think because 7.4 is still within the high slightly alkaline range, this is not really really life threatening and can be managed. I do water changes with a very varied tap pH and my pH also rises slowly up above 8. My tap pH varies from 6-9 daily. If it is below 7 I worry about the difference as I know the acid points below 7 are so much more dangerous.

You say it takes 2 days to reach 8.4 from 7.4?

Then in one day it reaches 7.9- 8?

Then how about daily water changes of 30% which would lower the difference ratio by 4-6 points and more maybe because the change is smaller? While we figure out why its rising so much...

The ornaments are two tree root aquarium ornaments from a large chain petstore. They are big enough for the fish to swim inside and explore, and have small holes in the top and bottom, presumably to avoid holding stagnant water.

The tap has been 7.4 all three times I have tested it. I'll definitely plan on testing the pH before every water change and tracking how it varies.

The tap and the tank right after a major water change both test at 7.4-7.6. I have the API test kit, and the high-range pH test says 7.4, the neutral range test says 7.6.

I'm not sure how high the pH will actually go, because I was previously trying to cycle the tank with the fish in it and I had to do 50% daily water changes to keep the ammonia sub-lethal. I have since removed the fish and stopped changing the water. The pregress goes something like this:

Day 1: 50% wc, pH 7.4
Day 2: pH 8.2, 50% wc, back to 7.4
Day 3: remove fish, no wc, pH 8.2
Day 4: pH 8.4, ask forum for advice
Day 5 (today): pH 8.4

Maybe it's leveling off now?

Once the tank is established I'm going to plan on small frequent water changes to minimize the change in pH.

A week later we're at 8.8. Still within the realm of normal?

8.8 is getting pretty high. Certainly worth doing a water change to bring it back down somewhat. If your pH fluctuates from 8.2 to mid-8s during a week and the water change brings it back down to 8.2 ish, you'll be okay.

Btw, have you measured your KH?

Good ? that could be a big problem. KH controls the ups and downs on PH in the water. If its low it will make the PH crash down and then causing the fish to stress and die

The Kh is really high, I don't know how to say what it is. The API test kit with the drops had a chart that only went up to 12 drops, it took 30. The Gh test took 20 drops.

The cycle seems to have stalled completely since I took the fish out. It's been holding steady at 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, 5ppm nitrate. There were never any nitrite unless it spiked and disappeared in the 2 days I was unable to test.

Well a high KH explains why your pH goes up. Think of alkalinity as something along the lines of 'potential base' (and base = higher pH, acid = lower pH).

Btw, KH drops * 17.9 = part per million of KH. So 30 drops is 537 ppm of KH if my math is correct. That's awful high.

But its not a bad thing. It means you'll almost never have to worry about pH crashes unless you poor pure acid in the tank... heh.


As for what to do about it, I think you can do nothing and be ok. You'll just want to change the water often enough so that you keep the pH somewhere in the 8s. Don't wait forever and ever and it jumps way higher.

If you want to do something, your options are something like Reserve Osmosis or Distilled Water, I think. Maybe mix some of that with your tap to get something that has a more normal, healthy KH in in the 150-250 ppm range, give or take. These aren't cheap solutions, but they are options.

Your PH/KH are not a problem in themselves. It is the gap between initial tap and eventual tank readings which pose a difficulty when w/changing large amounts. I think the best solution is to make several smaller changes so that the potential for PH swinging is reduced.
The most likely reason for this gap is due to disolved carbon dioxide in your mains supply. Disolved CO2 (carbonic acid) will temporarily lower the PH: Mains water is pumped via pressurized pipes; once it comes out of the tap and hits the air, the CO2 is able to dissipate and the PH slowly rises to its true value. With this in mind, the last thing you need is baking soda or crushed coral as they will only raise the KH even higher.



Are you adding some form of ammonia to the tank in the fishes absence? Without an ammonia source your cycle will stall as the beneficial bacteria need a constant supply of ammonia to survive.

One thing I would like to be sure of is which testers you are using? (other than the API droppers for KH/GH.) Can you confirm the brand and whether they are strips or drops?

Let us know.

I have the API drops test kit for Gh/Kh, and the API drops test kit for ammonia/nitrite/nitrate/pH.

Will just doing large water changes with my chloramine-laden water and the Amquel+ be enough, or do I need to dump pure ammonia in there as well?

Well, first of all, as you are doing a fishless cycle now, there is no need to add AmQuel or to do water changes. These are only measures to protect your fish and will not help you cycle your tank.

For a fishless cycle, you must feed the tank with pure ammonia, raise heat and wait.
Here's the link on 'how to'

http://www.kokosgoldfish.com/FishlessCycle.html

Ok, we're back from our trip, I'm married, I also have a nasty upper respiratory infection. The 55 gallon tank has been cycling by itself at 80 degrees since Friday night. Last night it read Amm. 0, Nitrite 1ppm, Nitrate 5ppm. Today we have Amm 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate ~20ppm. Do we have a cycle? Can we now add the fish? Tomorrow is our big tank-moving day, so if we can start shuffling around who is in which tank it will be much easier.

Probably do. If you want to make sue, feed it a bit more ammonia and see that the ammonia & nitrite don't register after only a little time, but the nitrate rises again. Then do a water change to bring the nitrate down to 10 ppm or less probably, and start moving the fish.

Hey I am having the exact same ph problem as you and wanting to know how this turned out for you, and in the end what did you wind up doing?