I just brought home what I believe to be a lemonhead oranda from the store. She's a bit beat up and I'm wondering how best to help her.

At the store she was bottom-sitting, but had some spunk when I put my hand near the tank. I just couldn't leave her there...she looked like she wanted O-U-T!

Tested her tank water in the take-home bag:
ammonia 1.0+
nitrate 20+
nitrite 1.0
pH 6.0

She's missing some scales -- which is making her side look a bit pineconey, but I can't tell. She's got some blood streaks in her tail, and her fins are a bit frayed. I think her condition is a product of crap water. I'm not seeing signs of anchor worm or any visible parasites (yet, at least).

I'm about to put her in Fisher's old 5 gallon tank. I've got a 20 gallon power filter running on it, and a small airstone going. Params are 0s across the board and a pH of 7.4. The tank probably has 4.5 gallons, and I've salted 4 tsps of aquarium salt. I'm using Prime and will add a bit of Stress Coat for good measure.

What do I need to help her pull through? I know the 5 gallon tank is insufficient, but she is smaller and I will do WCs daily/twice daily/as much as needed.

I've got Jungle Anti-Bacteria pellets. Should I start her on those?

I will post more pictures as soon as my Photobucket account is functioning.

She's in the tank now. Fed her some of the Jungle pellets. She ate about 4.

I turned down the current on the filter because it was beating her around quite a bit. She seems to be struggling to swim and is a bit off balance.

Pictures:

I love lemonheads so much. Kudos to you for a fine rescue! I hope she feels better soon. What terrible LFS water params! Keep yours pristine and she will certainly feel a lot better.

I would wait on the anti-bac foods until you see signs of a bacterial infection. When I quarantine, I always treat with Prazi (for the almost-certain prescence of flukes) and 0.3% salt solution.

Is there anyway you can get her into a bigger tank? Even a 10-gallon rubbermaid tank would suffice. 10 gallons would be easier to keep in balance and put less stress on the fish.

i would definetely treat the fish with prazi for flukes. In a couple of pictures the gills don't look quite right to me, like there might be flukes present that are eating away at the gills. I would probably hold off on the medicated food as well. Good luck with her!

What an adorable fish! Kudo's to you for rescuing her! (him...?)

Salt and Prazi are best for the new fish, but if you have already started the antibac food, please finish the shortest course - unless directed to do it longer. Stopping antibac treatment only helps to strengthen the present bacteria, and making super bacterias.

Best of luck to your new baby!!

Debbie

I only fed her the antibac food once, I can get her on regular food. I'll also try a pea and see if she goes for that. And I've ordered Prazi...hopefully it will arrive soon.

We ran out to a movie, and just got back. She's sitting on the bottom looking beat. I hope she pulls through!

Oh, and we named her Starbuck!

What a beauty! I hope she pulls through, too. Keeping the water as excellent as you can is sure to help. Do keep us posted!

She is adoreable. Good on you.

She also looks like she has a bad flex infection. So in this case the Jungle food is good and you should continue that asap. Don't feed anything else with that (no more peas) so she gets enough of that going through her.

The salt is good too. Prazi would be wonderful if you can get yourself some straight prazi which is so mild.

Make sure there is lots of air and in a QT you will prob need to change water daily for her.

Congrats on your new rescue. She is beautiful. Lemonheads are so cute

Thanks for the good vibes. Trinket, thanks for the advice. I've never heard of a 'flex infection' before and can't seem to turn up much using the search. What exactly is it?

I'm going to salt to 0.3 gradually -- should be there by tomorrow afternoon. Will continue on the antibac food too. I ordered Hikari PraziPro -- is that okay?

Congrats on beating me to the rescue...KIDDING.!
Easily would have done the same thing reviving her to better life AND better health.
I am a huge fan of Medi-gold followed by Jumpstart. And adding prazi & salt is the usual routine for my rescues.
Keep up posted on how things are going for Starbuck.

Quick update before i head off to bed: Starbuck is mostly staying in the corner of the tank, bottom-sitting. She does get excitable when I come around, and did eat a few pellets of the antibac food at supper time. She's quite the eater, which makes me hopeful. I saw her poo a bit and it didn't look awful -- a little white and stringy in a couple places, but mostly solid and food-colored (I'm assuming whatever food she was fed at WallyWorld was redish-brown). Crossing my fingers...

It's the flexibacter bacteria. It's common in all aquariums, but once it builds up - the fish can't fight it off anymore on their own.
If you search flexibacter, I'm sure you'll find plenty on it.
Keep us posted on Starbuck!!

Debbie

That's right. This is a totally classic case. You see the red line along the peduncle? Joining the fshes tail to her body? And the yellowing of the fins and head area + red streaks in the tail? This combo of symptoms almost always is flexibacter's work = one of the bacterial strains that causes columnaris. It looks like it has internalised somewhat with the bottom sitting and lethargy so medicated food is a big must.

How fresh are the Jungle pellets Leslie? If you had them open or in a warm room they may actually have lost some of their healing powers.

Flex is the strain of bacteria that responds well to nitrofurazone in Jungles & also oxytetracyline/tetracyline in Metromeds and in some other products like the Geltek range. Either would be the very best meds here.

I could always grab a new bottle. The bottle has been stored with Fisher's gear -- so in a dark cabinet, lid closed, fairly cool room -- probably no more than 75F seeing how we're just coming out of winter.

She is a great eater so far. She went after the food like crazy this morning. I turned off the airstone because she seemed to be getting those confused with falling pellets. She ate quite a bit though and was on the search for more!

She's settling back in the bottom corner now. I'm going to add more salt now, so she'll be at 0.2.

a couple more pics

Not a bad idea..although...goodness..
She looks much better already in those pics!! So pretty!
Wow! those red streaks in her tail have completely gone haven't they? Look what good water and TLC can do!!!!

Wow, she looks so much healthier! You are doing a great job. Keep us updated!!

I'm at work now, but before I left this morning she was still chugging along. She was definitely a piggy this morning with her food! Yay!

After feeding I turned off the tank light and covered half with towel to give her some rest. She gets all excitable when I even walk by 10 feet away, so I'm trying to keep her as stress-free as possible.

I'll do a WC this evening and get some more food into her. Fingers crossed...

Ugh! So I forgot to turn on the airstone after feeding this morning. When I got home, my pH was at 6.4! Yikes...

I did an 80% WC, and will test pH again in a little while.

In the meantime, I've noticed a white spot on Starbuck's wen. Any ideas what this might be???





A couple others of her. Other than the new spot, she's looking the same-ish.





Oh, and the stupid tank hood blew a fuse. So there's no light now. How might this affect her? In the daytime, she's in a pretty sunny room -- in the evening, we're keeping the light on. Thoughts? (Note: it will likely be impossible to find a new lid for the hexagon 5 gallon...)

Starbuck is looking great!

The white dot on her wen is likely a wen pimple... just means that wen is groooooowing!!

As for your light, do you have fluorescent or incandescent bulbs? If fluorescent, do you know if you have a magnetic ballast or an electric ballast? In a magnetic ballast, you're going to have a big cylindric starter (a fuse about 1" long and .5" diameter) that can be replaced, and everything will be good as new. An electric ballast does NOT have an external starter; their starters are built into the ballast. If you don't have this big replaceable fuse on your fluorescent light, it's likely you'll have to replace the strip light, or find an electric ballast of the same type (and an electrician!) and replace the ballast.

Yowza, do you sideline as an electrician? How do you know so much?!

From your description, it sounds like I have the one where I'm sorta SOL. We bought a new bulb (fluorescent, I believe) and installed...it didn't work. So we unscrewed the fixture to look at the guts...there wasn't any long-ish fuse as you're describing...just a sort of board of bits and pieces. On the board, there was about a .5 inch singe mark, where it looked like something blew. And then one of the wires (where it split) was singed too.

The white spot looks like wen growth to me, too.
As for lights, I don't use the lights in Dot's tank. Light from outside or inside lights even are fine. I wouldn't worry about it, or have to go to extra expense.
She started getting freaked out by lights a few months back, so I stopped using them. Silly fish.

I'm not a water expert, but I don't see why the airstone would effect the pH...? It could, and I'd like to hear why from any water chemists who'd like to chime in!
How did the test read the 2nd time?

She sure is a beauty!!

Debbie

Grr... My 2nd pH test was 6.6. Out of my tap it's 8.4.

So, she's still in Fisher's old 5 gallon -- which is the same tank I always had problems keeping the pH up in before. (But that was at an old apt, with crappy water.) So is it a small tank issue -- does that make it harder to keep pH stable?

It's just weird: Fisher's current 20 gallon has a steady 7.4 pH. And the small tank was fine Sun-Tues...

This morning pH was 6.6 again. I dissolved 1/4 tsp of baking soda in about 16 oz of temp-matched water and added it (didn't have time to do a full WC). Tested on my way out the door to work and it was 7.4ish. Guess I'll just have to keep an eye on it with the baking soda -- I want to keep it stabilized.

Also, Starbuck now has 3 more of the white dots on her wen...so I'm guessing this is a good sign?

I remember you had a lot of pH probs back with the old tank before it was completely cycled. Same thing going on here I think. The pH won't stabilise well until the tank is cycled. Meanwhile its back to baking soda at every water change That worked before and will again, its a pain but it isn't for ever and Starbuck will love you for it and be healthier for it so it's well worth it!

I don't use lights on some tanks too. They get room light, that's enough. You won't get any green algae that's all.

The wen pimples look normal I think.....I'd keep going with the bac food anyway till the course is up.

Haha, I'm no electrician, but Penguin and I went through this process two months ago. Wikipedia helped us find out what a ballast is and does!

My bulb went out, so I bought a new one that promptly burnt out as well. We figured that the ballast went out. I've been able to find ballasts in the "misc" basket as some LFS... what Penguin did was buy a cheap blacklight fixture at the thrift store, rip out the guts, and install it into the old housing. I can't remember if that one works or not, though... we have like 6 strip lights and 4 tanks.

If you don't feel like DIY like we did, you can buy a new light. But as other people have said, light strips on aquariums are really for the PEOPLE, not the fish. They don't need it... but we want to see the little buggers! As long as they get enough sunlight/ambient light they should be fine. I do not know what that would do to algae growth, however

Good luck!

Quick update:

Starbuck got stuck under a little reef ornament last night. That came out immediately! Doesn't look like she did any damage. Sure did scare my husband though!

pH is still a struggle. Last night it was at 7.6, this morning 7.2. As long as I can keep it that or higher, I'm okay. Just keeping on top of the baking soda and water changes.

In other news, my Prazi should have been delivered yesterday, but UPS can't seem to find my house. They've tried to deliver it to an elementary school about a 1/2 mile from me. Ugh! Yes, I'm new to the house, but the house itself has been there since 1960. Hopefully I'll get it today!

Just added PraziPro and want to make sure everything is straight...

Added a 1/4 tsp of Hikari PraziPro.
Salting to about 0.3% (probably more like 0.2%).
Using Prime and a bit of Stress Coat.
Using baking soda (about 1/8 tsp every 3-4 gallon w/c). pH is hovering at 7.6.
Have an airstone running.
Have a '20 gallon' power filter running (with carbon in filter media) -- don't know the gph, came with the 20 gal tank I now have an Emporer 280 on.

Are any of these things in conflict with the other?

With the Prazi, should I dose again in 3-5 days?

Sounds good Leslie. You have to redose the prazi yes after 3-4 days you can take a few days break though with no prazi in the water and then redose.

Most important is to check ammonia/nitrites while you are dosing prazi in an uncycled tank. Its easy to forget to do that when medicating and imagine the meds will work anyway. It can be that much more dangerous; meds+ ammonia or nitrites.

If you see any ammonia/nitrites, you can add back the prazi after the necessary w/c. I expect you know all this- am just confirming its importance here.
Good work on the pH. I'm sorry he got stuck. It can happen in a new tank, he is exploring. Glad you removed that.

Gotcha. So if I do a w/c (which I will likely have to if ammonia climbs like it has been lately), then I should add back some Prazi?

And you can't really overdose prazi- its one of those that is almost impossible to overdose, so you don't have to worry tooooo much like with the salting or an antibiotic medication

Quick update...

Have been doing daily WCs. Starbuck is getting more peppy...still hangs around the bottom until I walk in the room, but she's better able to swim around the airstone and filter output (which tossed her around before). Did another WC today with Prazi. Will go for 5 days off now. And today was her 10th day on the anti-bacterial food, so that's the last of that. Real food starting tomorrow!

She still looks a bit beat up. No worse, that's for sure. But she still has the red streak in her tail, some missing scales, and frayed fins. One of her back fins (anal fins?) also has a little black on it, but again, not getting worse.

Today was the first day I had any nitrites in the water, so I'll be extra vigilant about that now. Still salting, and her pH is holding steady at 7.6 -- with every-other-day 1/4 tsp of baking soda.

Some new photos:

Oh she is beautiful!!

That red streak may not go away. My lemonhead Roxanne has always had a red streak, despite being in great health. I think that because the fish are white, their veins are just more visible.

Or I could be wrong and Roxanne could be sick.

oh, interesting. i never thought about that!

aaaaaaahh! i think starbuck dropped eggs! i did a large water change and used the gravel vac. there are still a few i didn't get, and i think she's still dropping them!

yikes! i guess this confirms she's a girl. but otherwise...is this a good sign? bad sign? anything i should/shouldn't be doing?!

It's not a sign of anything but that she's a healthy fish! It's springtime, and there are a lot of female fish dropping eggs! Just make sure you get the eggs out of the tank-- if they aren't fertilized, they will start to grow fungus. :

Thanks. I think I got most out today. I'll do a WC tomorrow and get the rest. I was shocked...shocked...to see eggs this afternoon!

okiedokie...she's been in qt for 3 and a half weeks. has been on 2 courses of prazi, 1 course of antibiotic food, and has been salted.

she's looking pretty good. wen growth here and there. scales improving, still a few imperfections that will likely stay for sometime or forever. she looks to have improved all around. she's perky. hangs around the bottom in the morning and late evening, but overall swims about. she swims a little goofy every now and then -- i think she's small and battling the filter current...and also just jiggles when she swims more than i'm used to with my common.

so am i okay to attempt to add her in with my common? how should i do the introduction?

I hesitate when you say you're going to put an oranda in with your HUGE common. I have a feeling he might be a bully and a stressor to Starbuck, and also eat all the food.

I would recommend that you put her (or leave her) in a 10gallon by herself. You take a risk when you put fast swimmers and slow swimmers together in a tank, especially considering how big your common is.

i wanted to at least try to add her and see how it worked out. so i introduced her last night after about a 90% water change and a bit of tank rearrangement. he sorta batted her around a bit, i think trying to figure out what the heck she was...but now he seems sorta disinterested. she actually pecked him on the cheek when he was inspecting her, so i think she could get a little feisty back if needed.

when i fed this morning, she ate her fare share of food very well, i think. i did notice that her dorsal fin is a split at the front. i don't think it was like this before -- i've looked back at photos. so that concerns me, but i'm not sure how Fisher would have done that, really...her fins aren't more frayed or anything.

so i'll see how it goes. i still have the qt tank set up in case she needs to come out quickly.

she's doing a little more gasping at the surface in the big tank, which is sorta confusing...

Keep a close eye on her for any more injuries that might occur. Gasping at the surface can be a sign of low dissolved oxygen content--- you have an airstone? It can also be a sign of gill flukes. Those little buggers are incredibly hard to kill. I think it might be a good idea to do another flukes treatment in the QT tank-- others might have different opinions, though.

we have a 7 inch airstone -- gives off a good mix of bigger bubbles and tiny ones. i thought i had the flukes thing beat, we'll see what she's looking like when i get home from work...

so when i got home she was just putzing around the gravel, looking the same as this morning. no worse. i'm still anxious about the flukes though and scared that fisher might be susceptible to it. so i'm going to put her back in the qt tank with a double dose of prazi for 2 days on and see how she looks. i might do another 2 off and another 2 on if she doesn't look better with the gasping.

thoughts?

i just get so confused because she begs for food the same way and i don't really know what's up...

ugh. couldn't edit the previous post...

so i put her in the 5 gal qt with double-dose prazi and she's sorta twitchy now and floaty -- upside-down, rolling over, straightening out. she was floaty like this in the 5 gal before, but was fine in the big tank with fisher. all the water params are ok: nitrates at 5, 0s for amm/nitrites, ph at 7.6 (like the big tank, except nitrates were 10 there).

what's up...things were looking so good and now i'm getting more worried.

I thought I had beat my flukes, too, but they eventually weakened my fish so much that she died of dropsy.

It often takes several treatments to clear them out completely-- if you scrape and scope, and KNOW your fish has flukes, some of the mods recommend a 5-week treatment course.

As the prazi kills the flukes, they go into a sort of "death rattle"-- like they're trying to take the fish down with it. They're attacking her even more as they die off.

If this behavior does not clear up, it may be a sign of something else. Battling flukes is very stressful for fish and they can act lethargic or floaty as a result. To ease the stress, I would slowly ramp up to 0.3% salt solution in 0.1% increments. (1TSP per gallon = 0.1%) Salt and Prazi are compatible.

I think its a BIG shock going from tank to tank. However hard you try something is off from the fishes perspective. Wether that's a slight pH variation or a temperature difference between the 2 tanks ...various things. Its why fish should be introduced to new tanks (even in the same home) in abag and acclimitised very slowly. Gradual could be a goldfishes middle name. Anything sudden will cause them to go into stress-shock and even flipover.

I don't think you need to worry too much personally about flukes for now. You have treated and most flukes die immediately in prazi. If there is a heavy load the fish usually is scratching or bottom sitting. I still think that your fish is suffering primarily from water abuse in the past and is extra sensitive to any variations of pH, temp, water quality, levels of salt etc.

Match everything. Acclimitise when changing tanks. Your pH is still a very big problem in an uncyled tank. Every water change is stressful. A cycled tank (with Fisher,) may be best until you can get her a separate tank.

A very good hypothesis Imogen-- better than mine.

It makes sense and I do agree. Keep up on those water testings.

gotcha. i keep her in a bowl sitting in the tank for about a half hour before i add her, and while she's in the bowl, i add a bit of tank water now and then to equalize her.

i think you're right that fisher's tank might be the best option, especially because so far he seemed to be okay with her around. i'll work on getting her back in that environment and trying to keep her there, and keep that tank water in the best shape possible.

so she's back with fisher now...hopefully for good. they actually seem to get along okay. she was nuzzling his chin with her wen this morning.

anywho, we'll see how it goes. i ordered some ProGold so I can start to stop feeding at the surface. hopefully that will help her going belly up. though i swear she seems to like doing it...weirdo.

them swimming 'together'


rooting for foody bits


starbuck


fisher getting jealous i'm taking pictures of her


refusing to get his picture taken though...showing his fat belly