I bought two fancy goldfish about a month ago. They are in a “new” aquarium which they may have already outgrown. It is not currently within my means to purchase a larger aquarium, so I do frequent aquarium maintenance. There is one 2” lionhead and one 3” oranda in an eclipse 6 gallon tank with filter and aeration. Over the past 2 weeks the black streaks in my oranda’s tail have faded as well as some color on the body. My pH dropped to 6.2 two days ago, but I brought it back up to 6.6 using conditioning salt and plan to gradually bring it up over the next few days. The levels of ammonia, nitrate, nitrite, etc. are all 0 or within a “safe” range. I have noticed very little gasping at the surface or yawning. My fish recently switched to sinking pellets and peas due to swim bladder concerns. I have two main concerns at this point in time. Firstly, there are a few tiny red streaks in the oranda’s tail near the base. Over the last two days they have become a little longer and darker. Secondly, my lionhead has began chasing the oranda, particularly when it is pooping. It will eat the poop and or nibble at the oranda’s anus. The lionhead is very persistent about this and I worry about the stress or damage this could cause to the oranda. During the first day I had the fish it displayed this behavior, but it had not occurred since. The anus of the oranda is not red and does not appear to be irritated, but it may be slightly enlarged and I noticed that the center appears slightly gray. The oranda is still pooping normally. Any suggestions or insight would be greatly appreciated as goldfish keeping is new to me.

I forgot to discuss the water changes. Every 5-7 days I change out 2 gallons. I always pretreat the new water with Aqeuon conditioner and wait for it to warm to room temperature. As I mentioned earlier for the past 2 days I have been adding conditioning salt- no more than 1/2 tablespoon at a time and monitoring the pH. I cleaned the gravel today because I was concerned debris may have caused the pH drop. When I cleaned the gravel I only removed 1 gallon, as I had recently changed out water and I'm trying to encourage a biological filtration system becoming well established. I have a carbon filter and biowheel. Again, any help would be greatly appreciated. I have spent hours researching these concerns and could not find these addressed anywhere.

Hi goldienewbie and welcome to the forum!

It looks like your fish possibly have New Tank Syndrome. You don't say what size tank you have the 2 fish in, but fancy goldfish require 10 gallons each minimum for healthy growth and space. Goldfish are high waste producers and changing out 2 gallons every 5-7 days probably isn't enough. Your ph is very low, as goldfish prefer ph levels from 7-8. Do you know what your ph is out of the tap?

You say that your ammonia, nitrite, and nitrates are all 0 or in the safe range, but the only "safe" ammonia range is 0. All of these readings in the zero range indicates an uncycled tank. It seems like you've done your research since you seem to know about the nitrogen cycle. For more info about the cycle of the tank, please go to this link:http://www.kokosgoldfish.com/cycle.html.

If you could copy and paste the box at the top of the page and answer all of the questions that you can, we will be able to more determine what is going on with your fish and be better able to help you.

Please post back soon!

Especially during the first few months of a new tank you need to get hold of some drop test kits (striptests are inaccurate) for your water and check daily for ammonia and nitrites. Presence of either of these are the biggest killers of all fish and it is impossible to have readings of zero in a tank this new unless you have been doing daily 60-80% water changes.

Your tank is 6 gallon, and you have 2 fish in there so your fish are extremely stressed. Tail nipping is a classic stress behavior. Your oranda wants the tank space to himself! And the pink streaks in the fins of your fantail are ammonia poisoning &/ pH related. You need to be doing 60% daily water changes minimum in a tank this size for at least another 6 weeks, checking your water daily with test kits. And meanwhile you really need to think about a tank upgrade. 20 gallons would be good and much, much easier to maintain water quality.

Welcome to kokos goldienewbie. We all started out with overstocked and uncycled tanks too

Good grief! I looked at the post twice and still didn't see the tank size, lol!

Sorry goldienewbie. Luckily Imogen doesn't selectively read. And like she said, you are dangerously overstocked. 6 gallons isn't large enough for one fish, much less two. If you can't afford another tank at this time, you can use a Rubbermaid container to temporarily house them until you can get a larger tank. Many members here have done this as "just for now" solution. You could use the 6 gallon for a betta. They do well in those little aquariums.

Thank you so much Trinket and Vickielm for your help. I am sorry for the slow reply. It seems we are in different time zones and I am a college student scurrying to prepare for finals. This morning I retested my water using the API drop system-a strip was used originally. Here are the results:
You were correct about the ammonia. It had reached 1.5 ppm. Nitrate- 30 ppm, nitrite- 2 ppm.
After 2 50% water changes today I got the ammonia down to 1ppm. I am happy to say that the ph has improved it is now 7.2. Nitrite- 2 ppm. Nitrate- 5 ppm
As for the fish- normal behavior has been restored. The oranda seems content and the lionhead has not been chasing or nipping at it. The pink streaks in the oranda's tail have not darkened or lengthened.
The cycling website was very helpful. Thankfully it seems I am nearing the end. I was wondering if it would be adviseable to feed them every other day as opposed to once a day until I get the ammonia down to zero with 50% daily water changes. Also, I was wondering if it would okay to do a third water change about 12 hours from now before bed, since the streaks are still present, suggesting ammonia poisioning.
I am going to do everything I can to maintain water quality until I can afford a new aquarium. I spent every extra penny I had this month and last on these adorable fish.
Finally, I had read somewhere that without a dark background the fish may fade. Currently behind the tank is a bare white wall. I was wondering if this was a myth or if putting a dark blue background on might help resore some of color. The oranda's coloring is white, dark brown, and gold, with one blue patch on the body paired with beatiful blue eyes. I have become quite attatched to this little character. His/her name is Hobbs. I am quickly learning how enjoyable these fish are, so I really appreciate all the help in keeping them alive and improving their quality of life.

The oranda and lionhead have begun bottomsitting and the oranda is occasionally getting short burst of energy where it swims sporadically around tank and into things occasionally. The dramatic water change may have been too much for these litttle guys. Is there anything I can do?

Hmm.. Fish usually like water changes. Was the water treated, temperature and pH matched when you changed it? Your numbers are still quite high. You should aim for the ammonia and nitrite being as close to 0 as you can get, and nitrates can be around 20 or so, but never over 40. (I keep mine around 5.)

Truly, if you can get a large Rubbermaid container - your fish would be better off. Ammonia and nitrite levels won't rise so quickly, as there is more water to dissipate them. They sell the containers in an 18 gallon size, which would work well for the fish you have until you can get them a larger tank.

Feeding every other day is fine. But still feed the normal amount. If you double up the food every other day, then you're not really feeding them less.

I don't know anything about background color restoring color to fish, except that certain colors may bring out the different hues in your fish. A fish with blue eyes! I'd like to see that! Do you have any pictures?

Try testing your tank again, and see what your readings are. That's a good way to judge how much water needs to be changed. If your ammonia is at 1ppm - and you change out half of the water (50%) then you have only removed half of the ammonia - and will still have .5ppm. Same with nitrites. So go buy the larger number, whether it's ammonia or nitrites. (Not NitrAtes - these are fine so long as their below 40 as they are not as toxic to the fish as the previous two, but still -the lower the better.)

I hope your fish are doing better soon!! Welcome to Koko's! I hope you'll stay around once your fish are better!

Debbie

Thanks for the advice Debbie. I conditioned the room temperature water with aqeoun which takes care of chlorine and chloramine. I carefully added just enough conditioning salt to the new water to replace what would be removed. I even used the hose of the gravel vaccum to siphon the new water in slowly. I was hoping to see a greater reduction in ammonia than I've seen, as I've replaced so much water. As soon as the bottom sitting and occasional bursts of energy began I retested the water.
pH- 7.3
Ammonia is still near 1.0 ppm (although I have been able to reduce it by .5 ppm in the last 24 hrs)
Nitrate- 5 ppm
Nitrite- 0.75 ppm
I have made sure not to disturb the fish. It has been less than an hour since the strange behavior and bottom sitting began and I am already seeing them come out more. The oranda is mostly floating mid-level and swimming slowly around the tank. The lionhead still returns to the bottom corner some, but has been coming out and swimming around the tank. Given the timing of it all it seems like a reaction to water changing. Is it possible that they are exhibiting stress, but are acclimating to the change?
It seems like I should hold off on feeding them today and wait until tomorrow to change out 50% of the water again, but I am really very new at this.
I was wondering how long after I get the ammonia down to 0 ppm will I the pink streaks in the oranda's tail disappear? Also, I was wondering if it is unusual for the fish to "yawn" occasionally. I only see this a couple times an hour.

Yawning is a sign of gill flukes. But with ammonia and nitrites in your water, it's really to dangerous to treat with anything.
Have you tested your pH from the tap? That may be what they need to adjust to.
Did you vacuum the gravel when you did the water change? Could you have stirred it up too much and released harmful waste/bacteria into the water?

Do you have a Target near you? I believe that they have a sale on Rubbermaid this week. For under $10 you can get an 18 gallon container. Using the filter you currently use, and either add another - or get an airstone or something in there.. and your fish will truly be better. The cycle is in the filter - and some in the gravel. You could net up the gravel in a stocking and place that in the container. This will help the the filter with the cycle that you already have started. ( Does that sound as confusing to you as it does to me???) Okay - I think that's a little clearer.

Debbie

goldienewbie, as Debbie correctly stated, wcs don't bother the fish at all as long as the water is dechlorinated, temperature-matched, and ph matched.

Honestly, we all are bringing up the subject of a larger home for these little guys because 2 goldfish of any size are not going to survive long in a 6 gallon tank. I understand that you're a college student and money is tighter than tight, but being in too small of tank is #1 going to stunt their growth. What that means is that their organs will continue to grow but their bodies will not. This is going to cause one problem after another until the fish eventually succumb to an early and painful death. #2-there is no way that you will be able to hold a stable ammonia or nitrite reading in a 6 gallon tank. Not even with one goldfish, but certainly not with two.

I'm sorry if this seems rude to say, but you seem like a genuinely caring person who cares about their pets and you should know the facts of caring for goldies. Most of us here have been where you are right now where you have to make a decision. If you truly cannot afford to house them in a larger container temporarily, the kindest thing you can do for them is to return them to the lfs where you got them. The choice is yours to make, of course. You just seem like a nice person who wants the best for their fish. Do you maybe have a friend who has a tank they're not using? Plus, you can find them at flea markets and yard sales pretty cheap. Maybe you could use a Rubbermaid while you looked for a reasonably priced used aquarium.

Good luck!

Vickie and Debs are giving you some great support here and are so right about any ammonia in the water at all being the cause of bottom sitting and most of the probs here. Unfortunately it is almost impossible to reduce this in so small a tank without near 100% w/cs every day. It is so much work. And it must be 0 before any meds are applied. It is a top priority.

The water changes will not upset the fish if as Debbie said they are temperature matched and as close as you can pH matched.This is so important for stressed fish. Its hard to believe w/c's dont stress, but if done gently and temp matched, the fish love them- really.

Unfortunately you are not as far along in your "cycle" as you think - methinx- because readings of ammonia indicate you are still in stage one of the 3 stages. (1= ammonia 2= nitrites 3= nitrates).

So, what you need to do is focus on daily ammonia reduction to zero- via w/c's. And meanwhile, if you want the best for your fish and an easier route to a cycled tank - look around for another larger container for these two.

We're here to hold your hand and know very well it's a bumpy ride for the first few months with goldies

Even with the goldies in the giant rubbermaid I can't get the ammonia down below 1 ppm. Out of curiousity I tested my tap water, which is what I've been pretreating with Aqueon and using in the tank. The problem is that its coming out of the tap with 1 ppm ammonia. I also tested water that I pretreated with Aqueon and let sit overnight. The ammonia content in my pretreated water is 1 ppm as well. What should I do? Changing with water containing ammonia content isn't going to help the fish much at all.

Oh and I should mention that the conditioned water I tested was treated 12 hours before I tested it

Okay, so you have ammonia in your tap water. This is most likely chloramines being broken apart. Chloramine is a mix of chlorine and ammonia that many water companies have been using to make the water safer for us, but it's not safer for our fish, is it.

But don't worry... I looked up Aqueon, the product you use. I assume you're using the tap water conditioner? This is what their website says:

"Aqueon Water Conditioner instantly neutralizes the chlorine and chloramines typically found in tap water. The solution also helps restore the aquarium fish's natural slime coat on skin and gills, making fish healthier while keeping their environment ultra-safe. Aqueon Water Conditioner works to detoxify ammonia and other elements released from fish waste, helping fish thrive in a healthy habitat."

So this works like Prime and Amquel +, where it detoxifies the ammonia. It will not harm your fish, it binds it so it is safer for the fish.
That doesn't mean that it's okay to let the ammonia rise, because it will only bind so much - and water changes still need to be done. It means that the ammonia in your water will not harm your fish.

When you have a larger tank (or container) for your fish, your cycle will grow to accomodate this extra ammonia.

So take a deep breath, and relax a bit, then go find your fishies a nice Rubbermaid container so they can play in the water!!

Keep us posted!
Debbie

I've seen some improvement in the Rubbermaid. Now that the ammonia has been under control for a few days I started treating with Parasite Clear tablets. They have responded well, but I still see some signs of parasites such as yawning. The lionhead lost a scale a couple days ago, but I'm happy to say everything else has stayed the same or is improving. Thanks for your help. I'll keep you updated on any more changes.

Hi goldienewbie,

Yawning is a sign of gill flukes. Since you're using the PC tablets, they have praziquantel and should help with that. Be sure to keep checking your tank parameters, as meds don't mix well with ammonia, and follow the directions to get the right amount of meds.

Great job getting the Rubbermaid, by the way!

Debbie

My fish are doing well. I visited the breeding section earlier. It turns out Hobbs is actually a she. Not only that my lionhead has breeding tubercules and the behavior he is exhibitting with the female oranda is exactly like what was shown in the spawning video. What next?

I was able to save one egg from my greedy eaters and it hatched, but the fry died 3 days later despite my best efforts. I just wanted to say thanks again to everyone for the help. My fish seem to be thriving now.