Hey my fellow Fishologists!

It’s the people with nothing but problems again. Sorry!!! This one is strange.

We have a new Quarantine set up for our new fish before they go into our main tanks.

35ltr rectangle glass tank
Fluval 3
2 air stones and pump
no gravel no frills
(Just basic as it is purely for quarantine)

Our water is…….
Temp 22 degrees
PH 8 to 8.2
Salinity 4% but raising to 5% this evening
Ammonia 0
NI 0
NA 20 (but monitored and changed accordingly daily)

We keep an eye on this tank morning and night.

We have one new 4” lion head that has been in it for five days now.

She seems super happy considering we haven’t fed her yet at all.

HOWEVER

The first thing we noticed looked like a little spot that looked like it needed squeezing, it was situated between two parts of her when, so we kept an eye on it.
Then we noticed another thorn like white thing about half way down her back right on her lateral line.
This then seemed to multiply to two on her head, three on her side all appearing on the lateral line and then another further back on the same line.

They look like tiny little thorns but with the fattest part of the thorn behind the scale or deepest in the wen, they seem to protrude from one scale at a time and in almost formation along the lateral line. At one point one came out completely and it looked like a little cone with a fuse, almost like a little firework with a fuse only in all white sort plastic or a hard waxy material

Can anyone help at all please?

we did try to take photo's but they just don't show up on the camera, sorry. If anyone can show me a picture of what they think they are I can do an identity parade with the photos.

Thanks in advance

Steve and fee

Hi Steve & fee,

Without clear pictures, it's very hard to identify what the problem is. It could be a parasite, or something entirely different. Please try your hardest to take pictures, it'll help immeasurably.

One thing though, you said the salinity is 5% now. Do you actually mean 0.5%? Because 5% is basically VERY salty seawater. If it is 0.5%, then I wouldn't recommend continual exposure. 0.3% is generally considered the highest salinity for permanent set-ups.

It sounds like a bad case of anchor worm. The thorn is the anchor looking part -it is two copepods that contain the eggs and the white attached part is the worm with its head burrowed deep into the flesh of the fish.

Salt will disable freefloaters but the trouble with this parasite is the eggs and larval forms just go on and on and on...each of those "thorns" can produce several hundred larvae out of those cope-pods. They drop into the gravel and the whole tank needs treating with dimilin to rid the tank of these pests once and for all.

Hi There, Sorry 0.5% for two weeks while in quarantine, Is that OK? they don't really look like anchor worm, Im off to get some photos for you! Can someone highlight the "how to upload photos post for me please?

Thanks

Steve and Fee

I think this may be what you are looking for
http://www.kokosgoldfish.invisionzone.com/...?showtopic=9707

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn207/s...arsh/edame2.jpg

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn207/s.../edamesside.jpg

Hope this has worked!?

Please have a look on her lateral line, she has three in a row at the front (nearest her head and then another towards her tail, the photos make them alot smaller than they are but hopefully you get the idea

Thanks

Steve and Fee

Hello us again!!
We are still the worried parents.... has anyone been able to view the photographs that we attached?
Hope someone can help.
Steve & Fee

I'd reduce the salt to 0.3%.

Hmmm from looking at the pictures, seems to be to "too neat" to be anchor worms. The lateral line receptors seems to be swollen, although I do not know what it means....hmmm

The symmetry is so typical of the tiny pits made by Lateral line erosion/hole in the head/MHLLE caused by the hexamita organism.
What is not usual is to see the pits made by this disease so infected and swollen with pus like this.

Instead, it may be the symmetry is coincidental and that this is actually lateral line ulcer disease. The pic is very helpful as clearly these are not anchor worm. The first of these pimples often appears in the head area and can be confused with the columnaris first spot. Your fish would seem to be in the very early stages.

The ulcers themselves can be an assortment of shapes that contain a thick white pus or mucus. This pus is a toxic fluid containing the disease organisms that release into the water system( and also via feces) meaning it is difficult to remove the pathogens from the system and the excretion poses a threat of cross contamination with other tank systems using the same syphon etc. This is a very contagious disease and fish who appear healthy but exhibit the ulcers only under stress- chronic cases -become carriers. The carrying potential capacity for this disease is 6 years

Take the salt down to 0.3%. At 0.5% you are in serious danger of salt poisoning.

Keep it at 0.3%. A disinfectant type water born medication like Tricide Neo -used as a short bucket dip combined with daily 100% water changes will best stop this spreading. Oxytetracycline works orally but you are in the UK so I don't think that's a possibility.

Hi there

Thanks for getting back to us go quickly, we have been really worried.

Just a few questions to help us clear a few things up... we have just reduced the salt to 0.3% and are on the hunt for some Tricide Neo.

1. Is this a condition that will eventually clear up?
2. If it does clear up, how long does it usually take and can we eventually put her into the tank with the other fish.
3. Is it life threatening
4. We hate to think of it this way and is out worst dread, but should we consider it for euthanasia.
5. Do you think that we should take the fish back to where we bought it from?
6. Has anyone had this problem in the UK and found a remedy that is available either through internet or local fish specialists.

We would love to keep her and introduce her to the other goldies in our big tank so any help is so much appreciated!!

Thanks again

Steve and Fee

1. Yes I think it will clear up because your fish is showing "chronic" rather than "acute" symptoms. In other words no special behavioral issues like prolonged bottom sitting or refusing to eat.

2. If you catch it early like this and can treat it, and the cysts disappear you can add her to the other tank. But you will have to watch this fish closely always and be prepared to remove her to a QT if she has another outbreak and before new cysts burst into the water.

3. It is much less life threatening than its sister disease furunculosis. That one is systemic ~ internalises fast. Ulcer disease can be controlled easily with meds because it is primarily a skin disease and takes some time in an acute mode to internalise.

4. Please do not consider this big beautiful, otherwise healthy looking oranda for euthanising.

5. No.

6. Yes. A member here in the UK I seem to remember had a fish with similar symptoms and treated with baktopurdirect(sp) - a UK med- which works well. I will try now to post a link to the meds she used and see if I can track down the thread. Wait up..

Found it!!

The member is Lavinia and her thread describing something similar but at a more advanced and acute stage is HERE. Scroll down to post# 7 and there is a direct link to where to buy the UK meds that work on this if caught early - Baktopurdirect

Hey there! Thank you for all your advice! we really want to get our lovely new fish back to good health so she can go in our big tank with the other beauties!
we have ordered the meds and we will keep you posted! she is so gorgeous and we want her better!

thanks again! and we'll keep you posted!

Steve and Fee!

How are things now, Steve?

Hey There, Really struggling, we couldn't get any baktopur for ages, we had some delivered today, in the mean time we have tried everything to keep it at bay, raising the temperature, adding salt, adding melafix, feeding medicated feed, and then two days ago we gave her a complete 100%water change completely removing all the potions and salt levels and within 18 hours her face is pitted with horrible red blisters and small ###### white spots again. what can we do? we are really struggling to know what to do now!?!?!

Please help us

steve and fee.

When your fish is very sick and your cycle is well established don't be scared to do those 100% water changes daily. If you have no meds at hand it is the very best thing you can do for the fish. It isn't the water change that had the red spots appearing (providing the water was temp and pH matched and there is no ammonia in your tap water).

These ulcer type diseases really foul up the water and so do meds. The bacteria are constantly being released back into the water.

How are you doing with the baktopur?

We have literally just administered it so fingers crossed she is on the mend, were doing the water changes as often as possible but the cycle isn't established, because its a little quarantine tank it has never been established unfortunately. If she looks ok from the outside how much longer should we keep her away from the main set up before the coast is clear to put her with the other fish do you think? Im really worried that I will add her to my big set up and give the nasties to all my fish and completely ruin all my hard work. My big set up is running so nice and never have any issues at all. the water is so perfect it almost looks high definition when you look at the tank . I really don't know what to do with the poor little thing and for how long

If she looks fine from the outside and you have completed the course of baktopur + she is behaving well with no bottom sitting or extreme lethargy I think you can assume she has healed well enough to put her in your main tank. What you might like to do and I recommend is a bucket to bucket dip (which I can explain, its easy, or you can read how to do this in the treatment section) before adding her to the main tank. All you need for that is 3 clean buckets (no soap used in these), and temperature matched good fresh de-chlorinated water in each.

As I mentioned, once in the main tank, you will have to keep an eye on her in case another outbreak should occur. As soon as you see anything similar on her body you would have to remove her immediately to a separate tank and repeat the treatment.

So, what you all think - safe to move the post now, or are there still isues with the fish, Scullymarsh?

It's been a few weeks Andrea. Hopefully no news is good news and this can be moved. Sculleymarsh can bring it back up if needs be.
Thanks