Here are my results:

Mardel Test
Ammonia: 0ppm
Nitrite: 0ppm
Nitrate: 40ppm (uh oh?)
PH 6.8

Tank size approx 40Gallons, almost a year and a half old
a large EHEIM filter
I do a 25% water change once a week (because of the extra goldfish)



I currently have 5 goldfish and 1 loch (I know this is more than I should have for a 40gal tank.. I know I know! ). I just recently introduced 2 new (and small) goldfish making it 5. I quarantined the new guys for 24 hours treating them for diseases. About a week after putting them into the tank with the others I noticed a new one had red streaks in his fins.. I kept watch on him, hoping it was just stress. After a few days I noticed one of my older fish had the streaks as well. I went to a pet store and purchased API Triple Sulfa. I am treating the entire tank because I do not have a hospital tank big enough for a new guy and the large old guy.

My problem is my ENTIRE tank is now stressed out of their minds. They are darting around, gulping for air, and then resting on the gravel. Is this triple sulfa hurting the other fish?? I am on day 4 of the treatment and I am supposed to put more medication in the tank TODAY. I am terrified to continue with this treatment as the others were fine before the medication, and are now clamping and showing signs of discomfort. They're all laying on the gravel!!

What do I do???
The two with septicemia are showing little improvement in their fins, but still have energy to feed and come up to the tank when I look in.

Help :`(

Also,
the temp has been a steady 76 F for a few weeks now.

Hi bella and welcome to the forum!

Well, you know you are overstocked, but just for the record I feel compelled to tell you that the rule of thumb is 10 gallons per fancy goldfish and 20 for each comet. You don't say what kind of fish you have, but at 5 goldies and a loch, you are overstocked no matter which kind they are.

Secondly, I'm afraid that 24 hours is not enough QT time. New fish must be QT'd and treated with Prazi for a minimum of 3 weeks to watch for any symptoms and let the Prazi get rid of flukes, which almost virtually all fish have from the lfs. This is to protect the "old guys" from being infected by the "new guys" and introducing new bacteria and disease to your tank.

You need to stop the sulfa and do a large water change of at least 75% right now. If you have any carbon to strip the meds out of the water, you also need to do this. Sulfa is a very harsh and dangerous medication for the fish that are ill, and the fish that are not ill don't need to be medicated. Its really too late to quarantine now since the problems have already spread to the other fish.

I'm not trying to be rude, but how do you know your fish have septicimia? There are many diseases and bacterial infections in fish that have similar symptoms. A picture would be a great help if you can manage it.

25% wcs weekly in an overstocked tank isn't enough. You would do better for your fish if you did at least 50% 3 times a week.

Right now your fish are showing signs of extreme stress. I'd get the water change done immediately and get the medication out of the water before I proceeded with anything else. Also please make sure that the water is temperature-matched and ph matched to avoid any further stress to the fish.

Good luck and post back!

Thank you for your reply! I do not have any comets, just fancy and regular goldfish.

I assumed it was Septicemia because of "blood streaks on the fins".

I'm afraid I messed up on the quarantine big time :/

I am about to do a water change right now and put my carbon filter back in.

I will let you know :/

hang in there bella ..the 40 nitrate is high 25% is really not a lot with one extra fish ..I would change water 50 % probably twice a week or more this also will help keep the bad bacteria load down . darting around is sign of parasite or distress from water conditions...I know you already have meds in the tank ..but I don't think it's helping already healthy fish and water needs to be adressed ...medicating shotgun style is not a good idea ..most problem accure in the tank condition itself ..so your water paremeters look good except nitrates 40ppm will stress a sick fish -putting a fish in Q needs to be done for 4 weeks ..25 % weekly with an overstocked tank is not enough to remove bad bacteria that looms to strike a fish that may be stressed .usually certain meds cannot be used with salt , carb,with light etc ..and the thing with starting med like triple sulfa you need to finish them or risk building a resistance but the water issue needs to be looked after as well ..always check water before adding anything .. this is what I may do in this situation ....I would do a HUGE (95%) water change put carb in and strip the meds myself ... ...if you have a bad bacteria in in your tank lying in the gravel ,ornaments anywhere you can medicate till the cows come home and you will still have problems ..don't move drastically yet unless your fish look in dire conditions ..lets see what others have to say ...I just don't want to move you in the wrong direction so lets hope someone chimes in

dang I'm a slow typer!!!hooray vicki is here!!I say what she says..

Thanks Heidi for your reply..

You think that I rushed to medicate too quickly? This could be a good lesson for me..

I realize now I should change MORE water and change it MORE OFTEN.

I completed a 75% water change but unfortunately am out of carbon filters! I have to wait until my boyfriend gets home from work as the bus will not take me to the ONE location in my city where you can buy eheim filters.

In the future, does Top Fin Bacterial Supplement help with a potential disease?

don't worry I learned that lesson your way as well ...I on one hand am very wary when it comes to supplemented food for "bacteria" diseases..there is a food called medigold thats is used but only when a fish has been diagnosed with a bacteria infection and only fed for a duration of time ...I like to keep immunities up with veggies and fruits packed with vitamin C like kiwi for instants has lots of vitamin C and it is very tasty (I take the black seed out ) and you can feed the spinach ,peas ,oranges ,etc

LOL, Hi-d we said the same thing in different words!

Bella, you have a lovely fish. I like Heidi's saying of medicating "shotgun". Its something we've all done before we came here, and it was never to the benefit of our poor fish. Good intentions aside, certain medications only work on certain infections or diseases to fish. Just like people.

I can't believe what a clear picture you took. Pretty stunning!

I'm going to pm a mod to take a look at your post and pic. She will be able to suggest the best medications and medicated food. (She is actually a goldfish so she knows these things)

Good luck and keep us posted, hon!

i don't have anything to add that hasn't been said, but i did want to point out that the goldie in that picture is missing some scales...

are the scales still falling out? are you finding them when you do water changes?

Well since the water change they have perked up TREMENDOUSLY.. I still don't have a new carbon filter in, and now unfortunately it will have to wait until tomorrow as Big Al's is cosed.
BUT they are all swimming around and breathing normally. Thank god I posted when I did and was able to do a water change within a few hours!!

so things are looking up...


In response to your question, Tinkokeshi, I have never seen scales floating around or physically falling off. . although you are right: he is missing about 3 or 4 of them all around his torso. What is this a sign of?

What is my next step besides replacing the carbon filter, monitoring water conditions, and changing the water more often?

I am still concerned about the incredibly bloody veins in this guy's fins.. in fact, they are ALL veiny except the dorsal.

Thanks guys!!

well most goldfish health conditions start because of improper water conditions...

so the BEST way to get your fish healthy (if you don't have a specific diagnosis) is to make sure the water is SUPER perfect.
haha and of course, that just happens to be one of the hard things to get just right for many of us.

hehe so the next step other than getting a water testing kit... is to keep up with water changes. :-)
if the tank is overstocked, then big water changes.

most people are usually really surprised at what good water quality can "fix".

Tinkokeshi is right. We really are "water-keepers". If you take care of the water, the water takes care of the fish in most cases.

I don't know about the missing scales. Moby and Florence have both always had a few missing despite the fact that my water params stay pristine. I've seen them play pretty rough and I often wonder if this is a reason. Possibly once you get everything correct with your water and stay on a routine with it, this will cure itself.

Great news that your fish are doing better! Keep up with the wcs, and when you get a tester be sure its the drop tester and not the strips. They are notoriously inaccurate. Your nitrate reading is borderline...20-40 is in the good range. It could be that once you get the nitrates down the red veins will go away. Lets try to work on one thing at a time. You're doing GREAT!!!!!

You've had so much good advice here, it's hard to add much more. As everyone has said, much larger, much more often temperature and pH matched water changes are the best medicine most of the time.

You do however have and what has happened here is that the new fish have brought in something that was symptomless at the time of purchase and presented with symptoms one week later. This is why QTing new fish must be between 3 and 4 weeksminimum to allow for the surfacing of symptoms that can then be treated appropriately before adding to the main tank. New fish are 90% of the time carrying a whole wagonload of baddies. Some even say the conditions at the store will guarantee parasites are on board every new fish - period. This is why all new fish should be treated with salt (kills many parasites) and prazi (in PC tabs- for flukes; the most common parasite perhaps & the one that salt won't work on).

But you know all that now!

Fins this red are symptomatic of a combination of troubles ranging from stress, high nitrates, ammonia/nitrite and then also parasites and bacterial sepsis. I think your fish are suffering from all of these.

So, what I would begin with is (and while you are looking for a larger tank or rubbermaid to house half of your fish)

1) salting. Start with one teaspoon of the right kind of salt for each US gallon of water in the tank. Click on the link in my sig on how to salt.

2) Then have a look at your local store and see if you can find some parasite clear tank buddy tabs. These are a combination medication useful for new fish and contain the essential prazi and also some metrodizanole which is an anti-inflammatory antibiotic that should help for the sepsis.

You do need to medicate in perfect water. You are doing very well so far and I'm sure you can manage it well. PC tabs are added every 3 days I believe, check instructions and salting must be done slowly over 3 days after a very large water change. After 3 days and when the salt is up to 0.3% you need to do a 50% water change daily adding back 0.15% (that is half) of the total salt. Your fish have been flashing, are very stressed, are all bottom sitting and have severe fin sepsis and really do need these 2 meds.

Think of it as a belated QT for the new fish, but it is for all the fish now. Hope you can get started soon

Hi Trinket!! Thanks for the wonderful advice on salting.. I am going to start it as soon as possible, but I have a few questions for you.. I read your link but am slightly confused on the steps I should take.

I completed a 50% water change on Thursday evening, and then a 25% water change on Saturday evening.

My parameters are currently:

ammonia: 0 - 0.25 ppm
pH: 6.8
nitrite: 0ppm
nitrate: 20 - 40 ppm

Judging by these results I should do another water change before I salt, correct? To lower the ammonia and nitrate.

1. Now, I have a 40gal tank.. So for the first dose, I put in 40 level teaspoons of salt (dissolved in a bucket!) and then wait for 12 hours.. (Your link says to repeat after 12 hours - is that slow enough for my fish? Should I wait 24 hours?)

2. Repeat the dose after the alloted time.

3. Repeat the dose after the alloted time.

4. Leave the salt for... how long?? 3 Days? While doing a 50% water change, but replace 0.15% of the salt.. which would be 18 teaspoons (40 gallons with three treatments equals 120 teaspoons.. times 0.15).

5. Eventually remove the salt?

6. Medicate the fish DURING or AFTER salting?


I apologize, as I am writing this out I am quite confused by the steps..

Any extra help would be awesome!!

Yikes I missed this reply I am sorry.

In your case it is quite tricky because you may not be able to leave the salt for even 2 days without ammonia showing so ammonia showing takes priority. In other words a water change must be done.

If you are at day 2 (0.2%) and you see ammonia (any at all) you must do a water change. Say 50% is enough....to get the ammonia to zero.....then you would need to replace 0.1% salt, in your case with 40 gallons this is 40 teaspoons


You have to keep going like this every day. I always find with salting that 50% water changes aqre easiest to do the math- but then, its not my strong point!- If there is still ammonia you can always do another temp matched 50% immediately after....Yes, it's an awful lot of salt!!!

Yes every 12 hours is fine. No you don't have to slow the intervals.

The p/c tabs can also be added with the salt but I should wait a few days and see if you can get the salt to 0.3% first. Follow the instructions on the pack for those. I am pretty sure you can replace a half tab when you do a 50% w/c for example. It will need some calculating. P/C tabs is a shorter course (with an interval I think I remember) than the salt.

The salt should stay at 0.3% max for about 10 days to 2 weeks. Hopefully you'll be posting back with updates and we can see how things go.. If your fish starts to gasp and gape at the surface, they are having a salt reaction and you will need to reduce the salt to 0.2% or 0.1% for a while..in that case please post back.

Bellabombshella, how is the problem now - seing any improvements?