i was doing a water change after the 7 day myc plus treatment and noticed one of my oranda's head (inside) have a blood like spot

he is an red and white oranda (full red lion head) i noticed one of the spot is darker and i took a closer look it seems like a blood clog

any idea?

ph 7.6
nit 0
ammo 0
nat 25 to 30

6 fish

just finished myc plus and geltek ultra cure bx

Do you have a pic Nismo?

How big is the blood spot and how many are there? Like a pinprick size or larger ?

How are the other fish after their treatment?

the anal is still red and swollen doesn't looks better
they eat fine the water is in good range all around
my bro took my camera to school and hasn't come back
i will get a camera today for sure

pictures are here

some pictures doesn't show very well under flash so i had to take it in night mode so its not as clear but i highlight the area

its not that big as i highlighted and i noticed the area where is infected the head shirinks inward a little i think

http://a284.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/image...7e2f3e735fb.jpg
http://a85.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images...6087997feb4.jpg
http://a427.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/image...0995c2336fa.jpg

tink this is pictures for big boys rear

http://a609.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/image...e5846f87a98.jpg
http://a46.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images...0ee2c620f55.jpg (he is pooping when i took the pic was dark at first and became clear)

black and orange oranda
i also noticed him have a spot on the forhead i think its bacteria infection
http://a219.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/image...f4e1ec010ba.jpg
http://a323.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/image...3476b080a62.jpg
http://a779.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/image...160d419fc02.jpg

Nismo I think that BB's rear end looks heaps better. Once the "wound" or "ulcer" turns white it is healing. Necrotic tissue turns white like that. Perfect water will finish that healing up best.

The missing scales and white spot on the b & o oranda may do well with another course of that Ultra BX gelfood you bought. If you feel up to a topical application, a gentle wipe of hydrogen peroxide directly on that white spot would stop localised bacteria spreading.

If you do a topical application, remember to never have the fish out of water for longer than 3o-40 seconds at a time. Topical applications are very stressful and can have the fish go into shock so make sure you read up on how to do it and only do it if you feel 98% confident to. Get everything ready first & set a stopwatch to make certain you don't leave the fish out too long.

it is still red just the picture shows white a little bit
its hard to get a natural color with this tank because the type of light it has
any other medicen to treat the black and orange oranda?
they dont eat the ultra cure bx alot i dont think they like it

what about the red and white oranda with a blood spot inside the head

The internal probs he has are best dealt with using a food medication. I am sorry they didn't take to the gelfood BX. It would be good to get those in to your b&o oranda. Or any anti-bacterial medicated food in fact. Sooner better.

(The topical application was for the external white spot.)

Tink you still hasn't tell me what is wrong with the red and white oranda?

I'm sorry. Is the red and white oranda the one that had the ulcers? That you treated with the Maracyn Plus? Or a different one?

I think all of your fish are suffering the same bacterial problem Nismo. It has been transferred between tanks, so easy to do, in fact its almost impossible not to do...so they all need the meds. Bacterial diseases can be internal or external and the red spot you are seeing "inside" or deep in the skin coat layers may mean it has internalised in that fish and he needs medicated food.

the black and orange oranda have the white spot with a red dot in the middle

big boy have the anal swollen

red and white oranda have the blood color spot inside his head



i would do a water treatment over anything that i have to treat the skin i just dont feel comfortable doing it
any medicen you would suggest trating them with?

P.S


they are all in same tank so didn't transfer between tanks

I am still seeing bacterial problems. The white area with a red spot is the beginning of another ulcer. The tiny deep red spot is a septic spot. How long did you do the Maracyn Plus for? Full course?

You said they didn't eat the antibacterial food I recommended. That may be the problem. You need to get some meds inside to cure this completely. Medicated food is the way to do that. I suggest you try another kind if they didn't eat the BX.

Jungle antibacterial is easiest to find. Medigold from GC would work I think too

some will eat some doesn't go after as much as others

myc descriptoin said use on day 1 , 3 , 5 and water change on day 7 and thats what i have done

and after the water change i got the new medi food and trated for a week

Are they all eating the food now? I hope so.
Any updates?

the red and white oranda with the dark spot inside the head is still active and normal but i noticed that side of the head is fading away

looks like i can see the inside the head is opening up not sure how to describe this

i bought another medi food haven't started yet just try to see what you think first is the jungle brand for internal and exteranl bacteria infection

http://a888.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/image...a5a8902268f.jpg

the orange and black seems normal the spot is still there didn't get wrose

big boy is still swollen

Hi Nismo

I hope that your fish will be better soon! I just wanted to pop in quick, since you asked about the food. A few posts back, Trinket mentioned getting that food, so it's fine for you to use. I believe it was post #12, in this thread, if you scroll back through.

Your fish sure like to make you worry, don't they? Fingers crossed that the antibacterial food will work quickly to heal them!!

Debbie

offtopic

i'm not sure why
i have two computers
this one will show all reply in 1 page

as the other computer will show reply in sub boxes which i have to click inorder to open reply
is this under forums settings?

update

they eat the jungle food real well

but the red and white oranda with drak red spot i can see inside the head now

that side of the head is opened up

Hi Nismo!

I'll leave your update for Trinket, since I don't have her immense knowledge of what may be wrong with your poor little fishy.
I hope the antibac food will help it soon. I'm glad that they like it!

As for your "sub boxes", there is a setting somewhere (not sure where) that you can change that. Maybe try looking in "Help" in the top right side of the webpage? I'll do some snooping and see what I can find. In the meantime, maybe someone else will see this and know just where the setting is.

Debbie

Edit: Okay - on the top right of this thread, you'll see a drop down menu labeled "Options". Click it, and there will be a list of options.. but down at the bottom, you have a choice of Outline, Standard, and Linear. Mine is set on Standard. Check and see what your's are set at, and set them both for the type you prefer.

Whoohoohoot, clever you Debs (can't find the clapping emoticon). I think I once put my whole kokosgoldfishworld into those subboxes by mistake and I nearly went crazy. Old Hag/Anette came to my rescue and told me about the lay out option box. Another mystery solved. This site has taught me so much...about computers (as well as fish).

Nismo, when was the last 90% water change? This is still important weekly with all these probs. If the head is opening up...what exactly do you mean...do you mean a hole is getting bigger...in the last pics I thought the anal ulcer looked so much better.

Stick with the Jungle food. It should help heal bacterial sores. It may still be the best treatment for this. Give it another few days and report on any healing. Of course if things look much worse, post back right away.

I'll get some more pic to show you

he still eats but i dont think he is feeling really good with the spot there

so how do i change the subbox replies into normal

ok did a 55 gallon water change as you suggested
big boy has been bottom sitting 2 days doesn't want to move
the red and whtie oranda with the head problem is not with us any more
the black and orange oranda is most active fish like the spot on his face is
not affecting him

big boy become bottom sitting after 2 days of jungle food
all my other fishes like the food

bump the thread please dont mind since i didn't get any response

Oh no ! I am sorry about your r&w oranda. His disease had progressed too far .

I hope we can save your others Nismo. You did well doing the large 55 gallon change. That has to help reduce bacteria some.
All of your fish will have been exposed to whatever the oranda had as they are all in the same tank. I think all you can do now is keep with the Jungle food (in spite of the bottom sitting) and keep the water pristene for them.

pH must be stable and so must the temperature. Gravel vacs daily. All stressors removed.

I'm sorry about your Oranda. You're doing everything that you can. Sometimes things have just progressed too far for help. Keep up the good work with the rest of your fish. I know it can be hard when we lose one, but the others still need us.
Rest In Peace, little Oranda

Debbie

big boy is gone too

well i frozed his body so when the weather gets good around here i'll find a good spot in my back yard for him


now the only visible problem i see is the black and orange oranda and have the spot on forhead not getting bigger
also he and the all black oranda will float upside down once a while for a few seconds and back to normal

http://a865.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/image...43834691658.jpg

new pic for the black and orange oranda

he was still active yesterday today i woke up he was sitting on his chin and mouth open
i lifted him up to surface and he got a little better

the spot is getting deeper into his head

i bought some myc as suggested by local fish shop
please advice

i have the 10 gallon tank been runing for two months now no fish in there just 1 little snail
can i move him in there?

i move the snail out just incase myc will be harmful the Black and Orange Oranda is in there now not moving alot

I'm sorry I missed this Nismo.
And I am so sorry about Big Boy.
The hole in the head is sounding like Hexamita and the only meds that work is metronidazole. It is in PC tabs at a very low dose and also in MMs. Do you still have the Metromed (MMs) food from some time back? Are they still eating? Maracyn is just not going to work here in my opinion.

did you see the pic?
i still have some MM left i'll try to feed him but i dont know if he will take it
he as been in the tank inactive for 3 days with myc and myc2 he will move a little
i just put in a heater 5 min ago before this post hopefully the warmer water will help him


BTW LipStick is getting so big in the 25 gallon tank i have no idea how he grew so fast he wasn't growing at all when he was in the 75 gallon when do you think i can move him back?

i just went downsatir and dropped 5 pillets of mm and he went after it he only got 1 of them so i droped two more he he got 1 more there is 1 more sitting infront of his face i dont think he has energy to go after it i'll check on him later

BTW Tink how do i fix this drop box issue i want to be able to see all the replies under 1 screen not having to click sub boxes thax

Do you see a little blue box top right corner of this page that reads " options" ?

Click on that to pull down the tab and choose...standard Click on that.

woooot thax Tink

i just check on Black and Orange Oranda he is breathing better with temp at 77 and he finished all 7 MM pillets
cuz i didn't see any left over food at the bottom

what other treatmeant should i give to him? the 5 day myc and myc 2 treatment is on day 3 now

That's fine. Just keep him in nice clean water and finish the Maracyn course + MMs
Check the pH daily with meds and keep the tank in dim light for Maracyn 2.

what i'm doing now is the temp is at 77 and now he is seeking at the bottom of the tank for food and today for the first time he starts to wiggle his tail a bit but i noticed him got another problem under his tummy another read spot near the fin i'm not sure how to take pictures of him now since he is more active i dont want to stress him with a net if you think a red spot that sticks out of the body .....i'm gonna take a pic outside the tank as best as i can brb

http://a254.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/image...bb40abc37f5.jpg

Nismo, these look like the same raised bacterial sores/ulcers all the fish have had, don't you think so? Albeit at different stages. Is the present medication helping at all? Is the fish more active than he was?

There is not much more you can do once you have chosen an antibiotic medication than sit out the course.

yes he is more active since yesterday

now the main tank have another problem
i just did another 50 percent water change today
the all black oranda seems like his eyes got a lot bigger
seems swollen to me with white surrounding not fungas like
on the head there is a thin white material i'll have a picture soon
and 3 fishes all like to camp in one corner since last night

the water test came out fine just ammonia is a bit high so i did the water change today
i guess the tank is recycling after the big water change last week

Camping out together in a huddle is a sign that all those fish may be affected, to some extent. The swollen eyes with a white circle round is pop-eye. A symptom of the disease. The white coating around the head is probably slime coat build up where the fishes skin is trying to protect itself from farther attack from the parasites or bacteria. There are several diseases where this is a particularly common reaction.

If you have had a bump in your cycle (unfortunately it happens with meds) you will need to do those water changes daily as ammonia is going to have a very bad effect on already sick fish.

Can we re-cap. These fish have had : salt, parasite clear, Maracyn Plus, Jungle anti-bac food and are now on Maracyn 2 and Metromeds. Is all this correct?

here are the pictures Tink tell me what to do my 45 gallon and my 37 gallon even the new tank lipstick is in have no problems at all
i thought bigger tanks are easier to maintain~~

thax again

first picture is taking with flash to show clearity the rest is normal lighting

http://a244.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/image...ec1004c2523.jpg
http://a495.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/image...36a359f5a96.jpg
http://a685.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/image...36e2c53313c.jpg
http://a706.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/image...bc14d0454f9.jpg
http://a524.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/image...210cc1a3a93.jpg

also his face is turning white also you can see from the pictures

I'm really worried about the ammonia showing up. Are you checking that daily. Ammonia + medication is a lethal combination. If you see ammonia you have to change out water and replace meds. The Maracyn course is now finished right?

Your fish has finrot. Dorsal finrot. Slight pop-eye. That's all I can tell from those pics, He is bottom sitting more than is normal by the looks of things. Finishing treatment is extremely important. That means the medicated food must be continued for the 10 day course. I think perfect -ammonia free- water and medicated food right now is best for him.

Tink the medication is only in the 10 gallon for the black and orange oranda

the 75 gallon tank have no medication at all

I see. That's fine. And you are feeding which MMs or Jungle antibac food to this fish?

Whichever med food, keep up with it and finish the course. No other food, just the medicated one.

today the main tank finished the two week jungle food
so they went to their new food

hikari wheat germ

how do i get rid of the bacterial in the water
and what can i do to make them better not camping at the corner

they don't camp all the time just the same time every day at that particular corner for about 1 to 2 hrs

i am going to do a small watr change tomorrow and wash out all the tubes

Yep sounds good and don't forget your gravel cleaning, so much lurks under there.

belive it or not when i clean the gravel lately there are not much waste

i cean it very good i just dont see much debries coming up just a little bit

anyways i can get this tank to be stable to cycle faster?

Cycling is best done via water changes. Arm power

my 16 years old dog got sick and i had to take care of her first before anything else
now i just did water change today (well yesterday) and washed everthing out didn't change the filter pads cuz they were only two weeks old
i thought this might help cycle

i'll change the pads next week

and my amazon sword from my tropical tank have lots of new baby plants so i pulled 6 off and added to one side of the tank they dont mostly go to that side cuz i dont feed there there
to help maintain water quality

do you think they will eat them?

they haven't been camping since i start feeding them the hikari wheat germs and the water is in good shape now


the question i wanna know is i have this thing called leaf zone to help plants grow can i add this with gold fish?

anyone?

Nismo, I don't have any experience with leafzone or plant fertilizers. This question might be answered best in the forum on goldfish plants.