Please help! Problem is detailed in the bottom of this post!




Here are the stats

• 29 Gallon tank
• Tank started on March 17, 2008
• under gravel filter (since beginning)
• Fluval 105 Canister filter Added April 2, 2008
• Heater is now set to 76f ( started at 70f raised temp slowly over last 3 days)

Water test results (Test kit is Hagen Master Test Kit)

• PH 7.0 (tap is also 7.0)
• Ammonia 0.6 ( Jumped up to 2.4 when Problems started March 31, 2008)
• Nitrite 1.6 + ( this has been for 3 or 4 days now and I cant get it down)
• Nitrate ? (I do not have the test for this)

Chemicals used in Tank

• Cycle (came with tank)
• Aqua Plus Tap Water Conditioner (came with tank)
• Stress Zyme (Biological Filtration Booster)
• Prime (Removes Chlorine, Chloramine, Ammonia. Detoxifies Nitrite & Nitrate)
• NOX-ICH (Claims to stop ICH in three days)
• Aquarium Salt

The Fish

• Black Moor (Purchased and added to tank same day it was set up)
• Telescope (Purchased and added to tank same day it was set up)
• Albino Cory (Added on March 25, 2008)
• Placostamis ( Added on March 25, 2008 Died March 26, 2008)

The Story




I bought the fish and the tank on the same day (March 17) and set everything up. I started reading about fish on the internet and realized I had made many mistakes right from the beginning. At the time I knew nothing about “Cycling”.




At first everything was fine, I was doing small (5%) water changes every other day. I added the Catfish & the Placostamis on the 25^th the Placostamis died the next day. I tested the water and everything was fine. I went to the store where I bought him and was told he probably died of shock.




On March 31 I tested my water and the ammonia level was at approx 2.4. I did a 25% water change and everything seemed fine. The next morning I saw white specks on the tail fins of the moor. I brought pictures to the pet store and I was told it was ICH. I was the sold the NOX-ICH and the aquarium salt and told to add 5 table spoons of salt and 29 drops of ICH meds and raise the temp over the next few days. I have been told to add the salt only once and the meds for three days.




The next day (Apr 1) I was testing the water and the nitrite level is through the roof (1.6 +). I did a 25% change and no drop in the nitrite. I added the emergency dose of Prime (5 times normal amount) it lowered the nitrite a little.




Apr 2^nd Nitrite still high fish acting a little weird, 25% water change again. No results for lower nitrite, added small amount of prime. During water change found catfish eggs on glass I went to the store and was told to just clean them off. The owner told me my filter was not doing it's job and sold me the Fluval 105 and said it should help (I did not put the carbon pack in the filter as it would remove the ICH med). The Moor still has white specks.




Apr 3^rd 8 am Albino Cory not moving but breathing steady. Home from work at 6 pm Cory upside down on gravel but still breathing. I tested the all chemicals nitrite through the roof again. 1.6 + everything else normal. I have done a 40% water change added some prime. It looks like the catfish is real sick, she has swam to the top twice but returns to the bottom and lays upside down. The Moor's spots seem to be clearing.




Please help Me!!! Thank you everyone.

UPDATE : @ 11:00PM My Albino Cory passed away.

I still need help with the high Nitrite levels before I loose my other two little friends.

Welcome, sorry your first posts are for problems.

Do a 75-100% water change matching temp as much as possible. Use dechlor to the new water. Make sure you are using the stuff for chloramines if you have that in your water.
Keep salt in there to prevent the nitrite poisoning. .15% salt. Home Depot sells water softener salt, solar salt I think it's called. 99.9% pure. Don't want the stuff with additives or pelleted.

Your fishies have suffered some ammonia burns most likely. The water needs to be kept CLEAN. The salt has probably helped with the nitrites, but it needs to be kept at .15%. You might get a salt test kit. Regular water changes and binding the ammonia, salt for nitrites.

Be sure and test your tap water as sometimes some of these things are in our tap water and you need to know what is there if anything too.

Undergravel filters work ok for tropical fish, but they are not appropriate for goldies. You do need a lot of filtration enough to turn the tank water over through the filters 10x/hour.

It's going to take 6-8 weeks for your tank to cycle. Monitor the water to keep ammonia and nitrites in check by binding, water changes and salt.

Keep us posted how they are doing.

I agree that the undergravel filter isn't a good idea. It may be trapping waste where it can decompose and create more ammonia/nitrite. If I were you I'd get an aquaclear filter, preferably one designed for a 50 gallon tank or larger. They provide a lot of filtration and you can put a ton of media in there. But even if you can't afford that right now, I think you'd be better off to remove the undergravel filter.

Keep us updated on how things are going, we're rooting for you!

Wow, Micah, you have your hands full as you have a lot of things going on at once. Sorry to hear that your albino passed away, they are very nice fish. But aren't they technically tropicals? Tropicals and goldfish don't do well together as they have very different needs.

First thing to address is the fact that you are using meds in an uncycled tank. Fish medications will not work correctly in water that is not pristine...in other words, 0 ammonia and 0 nitrites. They will be essentially ineffective.

Secondly, NOX-ICH is a very harsh medication, especially when you have a fish that is already stressed and ill. Salt cures ich just as well as meds, and is much gentler and kinder to your fish. There is a thread on here somewhere that explains how to salt for ich. I can try to find it for you if you like.

I don't know what kind of pleco you had, but common plecos are not good tankmates for goldfish. They seem to develop a taste for goldie's slimecoat and will kill your goldfish.

As froplady and ChrissyBee already stated, undergravel filters arent' suited for goldfish because of the fish's high waste output. The undergravel holds nasty bacs that will cause infections in a fish that is already weakened.

And here's another sad comment on bad advice from the lfs people. How could your water be "fine" when you are showing ammonia and nitrites?

As froplady said, you need to do a large water change immediately. You will likely need to do at least 50% daily after that. You'll have to monitor your water closely, sometimes doing 2 water changes a day for a few weeks keeping the ammonia and nitrites down.

I'd put the carbon back in the filter to get the NOX-ICH out and use salt for the ich. You can use kosher salt, canning salt, and rock salt that you can get at the store cheaper than aquarium salt. Just don't use table salt and make sure there are no anti-caking additives as they will harm your fish.

Good luck and keep us posted.

Thanks for the help. I am going to try a few things and give an update this afternoon.

Hi there everyone. First I just wanted to thank everyone for the help it means a lot.

First for the good news. The white spots are gone on my Black Moor. There were only one or two spots yesterday morning and as of today there are none.

I have read a lot of information in the last few weeks and I am a little confused as to what to do. It was sugested that I get a different filter but I did just buy the fluval ($115) and I was hoping I don't have to get a different one. I have read that when treating for ich the meds say to use for three days but people say to medicate for 7 just to make sure. I have not added any today and I am not sure if I should or not. As for the salt I have that aquarium salt I bought... One of the responces said to add salt but mentioned a different kind. I guess what I am looking for is 1) Should I completly stop the ich meds, put the carbon in the filter, and salt the water or 2) should I just stop the meds and put the carbon in. The spots are gone so that is a good sign. With that being said I also learned that the ich will live in the gravel and then float up and re infect the fish.

So today I have done a large water change 80% but I did not put the carbon in the filter. I also vacuumed the rocks and got a lot of the waist out even though I was told not to because that will mess up the cycle, I figured it would help with the high Nitrite levels.

So here are the current water test results 2 hrs after the 80% change

Tank

PH = 7.0
Ammonia = 0.6
Nitrites = 0.6 (lowest I have seen it in days)
General Hardness = Bellow 20 MG/L
Carbonate = 10 MG/L

Out of the Tap

PH = 7.0
Ammonia = 0
Nitrites = 0
General Hardness = Bellow 20 MG/L
Carbonate = 10 MG/L

I think I am on the right track with everyones help. Thanks again.

Hello - just a quick post to say that I would remove all the meds with a water change and carbon asap!.

Which meds are you using? They cannot be safely run with ammonia or nitrite. In addition, you also have a low PH which can cause certain parasite meds to be highly toxic.

So, to protect the fish, you should clear the meds and proceed with the salt method.

http://www.kokosgoldfish.invisionzone.com/...showtopic=60876

This is a very effective way to treat ich and will also help the gills after such high nitrites. You must vacuum and change water daily until your readings are safe; the higher the reading, the larger the water-change. I'd run salt for at least 2 weeks.

Your carbonate score (KH) is very low and needs to be raised. As it is, your beneficial bacteria will find it harder to grow and your tank will be at risk of PH crash. No alkalinity means there is nothing to absorb the acidity from the cycle (nitrate) and consequently the PH starts to slide. A PH drop is a serious stressor and can kill fish. Either get crushed coral to use as substrate (or in filter if there's space) or order yourself some Buff it Up - Rick at GoldfishConnection sells it.

Good luck and fingers crossed

It has been a few days - how are things with the fish, Micah?