Hello,

This is the 1st forum I ever joined and my very 1st post. I have been reading threads, advice and opinions on this and others like it, for days. I still have no idea of what, why and how to fix, "Big Boy's" condition. I am officially confused and frustrated.

Big Boy's story:

A little over 2 yrs ago, my bf 17 yrs old daughter brought home a Comet goldfish, that she won at the carnival. He told her to give the goldfish to her friend who had an aquarium but she whined until he bought her a tank. Well they came home with a 1.5g hex starter tank. I knew the tank was way too small but I try to stay out of their issues. It was a New York second till she lost interest and caring for the fish. I had to nag my bf to nag his daughter to clean the tank or at least change the water. It had become such a problem, that I just started taking care of the little fish, I wasn't going to let him suffer or die. So, when he needed a bigger tank I had to nag him to nag her ...again and they came home with a 2.5g tank. For the 1st two yrs. the fish lived in tanks too small, never had the water tested, never had added any conditioners added to the water, for sure it was poor water quality and only ate flakes and he never had any health problems. When the daughter moved in with her bf I insisted on ownership if I was going to keep taking care of it. My friend had given me a 5g tank (the pet store guy and lots of web sites say 1g per 1" of fish). The fish was only 3" so we got him a .75" friend and everything was fine for a while. I knew I would need a much larger tank soon so I joined freecycle (since I'm unemployed right now) I was given a 20g and a 40g tank last weekend but not sure how to disinfect them safely, my bf is not happy that I want to set up a larger tank because he has such a small house. My thought is that since he couldn't put his foot down with his daughter, that he has no say in the matter. So I set up the 1.5g tank for three guppies, which are now having babies.

By this time I had started using a dechlorinator and I did a 50% water change / using the gravel hose weekly and Big Boy grew to almost 5". About two weeks ago I noticed "Big Boy" looked sad, the next am he wasn't doing his wiggle dance we do together and wasn't interested in eating and he always wants to eat. I watched him very closely, he still wouldn't eat although he seem to want to and noticed he wasn't opening his mouth at all, his fins were clamped, he was hanging at the bottom. I thought he was constipated. I gave him peas, which he wouldn't eat. I went to the pet store, because I was using an in tank whisper they talked me into buying a new filter "Rena hob" (which I don't like) testing strips and maracyn-two. His little buddy went into the 2.5g, I removed all the gravel and I started the medicine. A couple of days into the treatment and he seem to be doing worse. I started doing daily water, yet he still wouldn't open his mouth like he normally did, although he did yawn 1 or 2 times. I took him out of the tank, he opened his mouth, I looked for gravel and/ or anything that might be wrong......nothing. I kept using the medicine and started flakes again. He sucked a few in, still not opening his mouth in a regular fashion, plus he started to swim sideways and the hole time hanging at the bottom. I started changing the water twice a day and adding 1 T salt. There was one strand of mucus coming from his tightly clamped gills, so I checked the gills all looked ok. He had 1 stringy white poop then no poop at all, the pet store told me to feed him anti-parasite pellets, he wouldn't eat any. So I went back to no food for a few days then only peas he's still not pooping, opening his mouth, won't eat the peas, hanging at the bottom, gills are tightly clamped, fins sometimes open now, he had no signs of any external problems until this morning. He now has a few red circles with white dots in the center (like a white head pimple)one on each p-fin and two on tail and his fins are no longer clamped. I am confused and frustrated and don't know what to do now....that's why I'm now writing..... but I won't stop trying. I miss our little dance.

Water reading on the first day of not eating:
Ammonia = between 0 and .05 (strips hard to tell sometimes)
Nitrate = 0
Nitrite = 0
Hard water @ 150
Chlorine = 0
Alkalinity = approx 150
PH = 7.2

I am now using Amequel plus, still doing 1 to 2 ... 50% or more daily water changes. he in the 5g now hosptal tank (hoping it's ok to use the 20 or 40g if it'll be safe) I have the Rena hob power filter for 20g, 1 sm air stone, finished maraycn2 treatment w/o filter media in, he's getting 2 peas a 3 flakes (just to get something in him). He just started getting fully treated water and testing about 2-3 months ago. Temp between 68-71 if I leave the light on. The water has always been clear, never had an alge bloom in the 5g and did have 1 live plant + 1 silk before I remove everthing.

The Water last night before I changed it was:
Ammonia = betewwn .05 and 1 (nothing in tank and no poop...maybe from peas?)
Nitrate = 10
Nitrite = 1.5
Hardness 150
Chlorine = 0
Alk = 120
PH = 7.2

I don't know to do. I have Tetracycline, Ampicillin and melafix ...should I use any of them and what is a good but reasonable hob p-filter?
Robin

Hang in there, we have all been here before. The experts are great and will give you some good advice and help you and your big boy out. Just thought I would let you know i am thinking about you and it will be ok. just a little patience and the great advice givers will be with you!

until someone can diagnose your fish keep doing water changes it sounds like your tank is still cycling which takes 4-6 weeks ..be very careful using meds for 2 reasons 1 using meds without knowing what is possibly wrong could build resistance against bacteria problems and such ,2 ,putting meds in a tank that isn't cycled could cause more harm than good .Your Nitrite of 1.5 is very high and needs to be kept close as possible to .25 with daily waterchange while cycling high nitrites can cause gill damage .to help your fish through nitrites during cycling put (as a tonic 0.1% ) 1 taBle spoon per 5 gallon.....salt does not filter out so when you do a waterchange and lets say you changed out 10g you need to add 2 table spoons of aquarium salt to your new water so you need to keep a diary to keep track ..sorry I can't diagnose your fish I will leave that to the experienced ..do not rush to medicate most problems are water related and that needs to be adressed before or the meds just won't simply work . oh I almost forgot start with a very huge water change I would say 80-90 % of your water this will help than keep doing daily if he is still in the small tank I would put him in the large one you just got. small waters become toxic too fast .to clean out the new tank use diluted bleach and rinse after until you can rinse no more then fill it up and put some water conditioner in it to take care of any blaech left behind and dump out and it should be ok to use and read up on the nitrogen cycle this is very important to know if you do not all ready ....and welcome to kokos !!!!!! this has taken me along time to write because of constant distraction from my kids someone might of helped you by now !!LOL ps sorry I couldn't inform you on everything ..someone will.. so hang in there and you will be on the right track with big boy soon !!

I am new to goldfish, and I can't comment on the medical aspects, but I do have some comments that I hope are helpful. So until one of the experts who knows the disease side comes on, here's some food for thought.

As you said, the size of the aquarium you have your fish in (5 gal) is very small, and the ammonia and nitrites seem to be rising overnight. I also have a large goldfish, and they do generate a lot of waste! My thought would be to get your fish into the 20-gallon, and it would be better off.

You wanted to know about sterilizing. Well, I know Koko's folks trust "GoldFishConnection", so here's a link to how they sterilize:
http://www.goldfishconnection.com/articles...amp;parentId=10

I also have used bleach - as discussed in the above article. You put the bleach diluted in water into the tank, let it sit, then rinse, rinse, rinse very thoroughly. Then fill with water, and add a dechlorinator. I put in a huge amount - they say double-dose but I do more than that. Let it sit, rinse again very well. The above article also has you dry it and let it sit for an your. I would refill and test, and maybe dechlorinate/rinse again. Anyway, you get the idea. Between the rinsing, using the de-chlorinator, and testing for chlorine to be sure you got it all, that seems to work ok.

Another thing people use is Potassium Permanganate. You can get it at Sears, it's for water softener equipment, so you have to go to the department that sells washing machines and that sort of thing. You would likely have to ask for it, it's not stored on shelves in my store. Here's a reference in Koko's that mentions using Potassium Permanganate to sterilize a tank: Ways of sterilizing a tank If you decide to go that route, read up and be careful with the stuff, and remember that it stains. Post back and someone can help you out.

They say not to use soap, that would be bad!

Welcome to Koko's! There are people here who have a lot of information, and we all certainly love our goldfish and will try to help as much as we can.

Hi again Robin, I wish so much I could help on the medications, but unfortunately, I don't know enough. However, I will pass along this post on using salt - from someone most knowledgeable - regarding types of salt, and dosages for medicinal purposes.

Using Salt, Which salt to use and how?

Your fish may need something stronger, but again, I know the medications are specific to the problem, and I coudn't comment. Some medications may not be compatible with salt, so if you start a medication, be sure to check that out.

When you add the dissolved salt, be sure not to get it anywhere near the fish when adding it. In fact, I now add it to a bucket of water going into the tank during a water change, so the fish doesn't swim into the concentrated salt-water.

If you could post a picture of your fish, that would be helpful in diagnosis, if that is possible. Many people load their pictures up to PhotoBucket to share them.

I do hope for the best for your fish - it's not fun when they're sick!

Thank you all for being so nice and for all the information, I really don't know anyone locally to talk to about my fish and the people at the fish store are not so much help.

I will continue to do water changes and I have been adding salt since Malacyn2 but I didn't know about turning the lights off, it didn't say anything in the directions. I keep the lights on to keep the temp constant.

Is tha amquel + good to use or is there a better product like De-Tox Plus (what are the heavy metals that are removed) from the artical.

"Big Boy" is swimming better and seemed hungrier. I'm still giving him peas but he had only pooped a small amount it was very dark green and maybe only 1/8". I did give him some flakes this am.

The red spots with the white bumps in the center, which the white part seems to be getting longer, is this a bacterial or parisite issue and is it something he can recover from. I'm not sure why he got sick but all was ok till I got the hob rena filter. I am going to return it any sugestions on a better filter.

I'm assuming that the red spots are from ammonia but I don't know what the white things are. If it was from the ammonia why did the red spots just show up yesterday (2 weeks later) and if it is ammonia does it mean he's automatically doomed to shortly die, without hope? If there is something can do to get him better I want to do all I can.

I have been looking for pictures on the web that looks like what big boy has, but I'm probably the only person in the world who doesn't have a cell phone or digital camera. I will see what I can find or if my bf cells camera will get a good pic.

Thank you very much,
Robin

I'm wondering if this might be anchor worm. It does start out looking like a pimple with a white spot - that grows longer as the worm grows.
Here is an article here on it: Anchor Worm See if you're seeing anything like what's in the picture. They may not be quite the size of the ones in the picture yet, though - if that's what it is. It sounds like it, though.

Most people here use Prime or Amquel + because it does do everything that the De-Tox Plus does, but it also binds the ammonia so that it is safe for the fish, yet useful to the cycle. The heavy metals are things like copper, lead, and whatever else may be in your water supply that are harmful to fish.

I wanted to comment also on the 1/8th inch green poo that you saw. I believe it is more normal for fish to have the smaller poo like that, than to have long trailing ones. Since you've been feeding peas, and it's green - that's a good thing!

And you are reading from the 2nd person in the world who doesn't own a cell phone, and I use my daughter's digital camera for pictures.

Hopefully we'll get down to what these red spots are! Keep us posted!!

Debbie

Unfortunately, you've been treating your fish for a bacterial infection when in fact the problem is parasites - brought in by the new 'friend'. It is not the filter which is to blame. Your fish has anchor worm, as Fishy guessed, and needs treating with either Dimilin, Anchors Away, Program or even Parasite Clear Tabs (by Jungle).

Just to clarify things: is the fish now being treated in the original tank or a new one? I'm a bit uncertain. The thing is, that wherever the new fish was first introduced is where the infestation started. This tank, if it is different must be treated too, as A/Worm is highly contageous and leaves larvae all over the tank.

A better solution, if you have the 20 gal available, would be to give it a fast clean up - bleach solution followed by rinsing and de-chlorinator (there's a sterilizing thread in the tank section) - you treat both fish together and could nuke the other tanks. Run it bare-bottom so thatthere is nowhere for larvae to hide.

Things to remember. Any new tank, unless your filter is cycled and working, builds ammonia very quickly (ammonia is produced by fish all the time through waste and respiration). Any medicine in conjuction with either ammonia or nitrite will not work and become very toxic - so you must test your water daily and change-out enough to reduce any escalating levels. The higher the amm, the more water you must change. You have a lot of work ahead for the next few weeks, but after that things will be much easier.

The Maracyn2 is not what is needed, although it may have helped prevent secondary bacterial infection from the bites up until now. At this point you could use Parasite Clear Tabs which also have an anti-biotic 'chaser' to prevent infection of the wounds. I would remove the filter media from the filter and run it on zeolite/ammo-chip pouches until treatment is finished. Get 2 to use in rotation as they will need to be re-charged in saline when they become exhausted.

Take a minute to read the links below my signature which will help you understand the basics much more clearly.

Congrats on rescuing this tank from bad care. Stick with us and your fish will be fine in no time

All the information sounds great, much better than most other site, glad you were her for me to find. The 20 should be up and running tonight. I'll run out and get the anchor worm meds in a few. My question though about the friend bringing the worms, could they be dormit for a few months? The friend came in January, I got Guppies a little over a month ago, could the tanks get crossed contaminated by moving plants, filters or say by using 1 net from tank to tank? I would never give up on them but it's nice to have someone to turn to with questions.
Thank you all,
Robin

I have heard that parasites can be dormant for quite some time, they're just waiting for the right opportunity to attack the fish. I have also heard that one drop of water from an infected tank can contaminate a healthy tank.
I can't say for certain that anchor worm fall into both of these categories, but it's better to be safe!
We're glad that you found Koko's, and that your fish are soon on their way to recovery!!

If I may give you a tip. Pixie gave you a lot of wonderful information. Sometimes it helps to go back and look through things to make sure all things have been read and understood. It's easy for things to be mumbo jumbo when you're seeing the information for the first time.

Debbie

Yes, I have been re-reading the information.

The pet store didn't have the recomended meds but insisted Rid ich + containing formoldehyde & salt of malachite green......is this right, if not I there's another pet store further down the road.

Robin

No Hun, I'm afraid those won't work. Like Pixie said
I have had the same experience with my pet store. You go in and ask for something, and they ask why you need it, then try to sell you something that you don't need.
I wonder how it would work if - when they asked you - you just replied "I have a sick fish that needs....." and you choose a product name from the list.
It's like going to buy shoes for a party, and the clerk wants to sell you snow shoes instead.

Good luck with your fishies!!

Debbie

I thought not, it's easy to return but it's waisted time.

I agree with u about the stores.

T U
R

Fish store tales, hm?

Robin, I hope you didn't get the Rid Ich - it is not only the wrong medicine, it is also a very delicate one. If you can, try one of the other meds that Pixie mentioned, in another store. If a sick fish is being treated with the wrong medicine, it only makes matters worse.

the ammo chips are a good idea but not in conjunction with salt which was mentioned earlier in the thread.

The ammo chips will release the ammonia it's collected when put into salt water, which is how to recharge or clean the ammonia from the ammo chips, but can be disasterous if salt is used in the tank!

Karmaconnections, how is your fish today?

Big boy is doing great, it's as if he was never sick. I used cryopro. I was strange, I don't know if it was anchor worm because the white spots fell off the day after I started using the cryopro, the red spots took a week to clear and left a few white marks. Now he is just fine.