I have four black moors in a ten gallon tank. They've been in the tank since I set it up on Februrary 12. I didn't read about cycling the tank until I already had them, but they seem to be doing "swimmingly". (Sorry, I'm sure you've all heard that joke before, but it's new to me.) I was told that it was better to do lots of little water changes than a few big ones, so I've been changing two gallons of the water twice a week. With the gravel at the bottom, about 10 lbs, there's only about nine gallons of water in the tank all together. They have an Aqua-Tech 5-15 gallon filter, and I'm changing the mechanical and carbon filter layer of the filter once a month. When I first set up the tank, I used these funny fizzy things called Tank Buddies that were supposed to both dechlorinate the water and remove ammonia. I got over that pretty quickly, and am now using Wardly Chlor Out to remove chlorine and chloramines. Those are the only chemicals I've put in the water. There is no visible algea in the water, but they're always grazing, so I figure there must be some there or they wouldn't waste the energy.

I'm not sure how you measure a goldfish's length. It kinda varies. Normally, they're about an inch and a quarter long. When they're swimming forward and their tails are streached out behind them, they're almost an inch and a half long. When they suddenly stop swimming, or when they try to swim backwards (which is adorable) their tails drift back over their bodies, and they're only about an inch long. I didn't know what kind of food was best, so I hedged my bets. I've been feeding them Wardly Goldfish Pellets in the morning and Tetra Algae Crisps (not specifically for goldfish) in the evenings. They seems to like the crisps alot better, but they eat the pellets too. When I first got them, they were really timid, and hardly even came to the surface for food. Then, for about the second week I had them, they were fairly aggressive towards one another (although I never saw them actually biting). Since then, though, they've acted healthy and happy, and still are acting that way today.

I'm posting because I noticed today that one of them has a tiny grey speck at the base of its tail fins. It's no more than a milimeter or two long, but if it's a problem, I rather catch it as a small problem then wait until my fish are sick. The speck is just the tiniest bit raised, and is shaped more like a delta than a circle (a little like the star trek symbol, I guess). I tried to get a picture of it, but couldn't get anything great. This was the best I could do:



If you can help me figure out what it is, or tell me what to watch for, it would be very much appreciated. I looked over some different posts on this site about fish diseases, but I'm too new at this to be able to figure out what it was. Thanks for your help. I'm sure my goldfish thank you, too.

Welcome to Koko's. It is good to meet another fish fanatic.

That said, I see a couple of thingsthat you should change in your setup that can help go a long way to help your fish become healthy and gorw large and live long and prosper. (I am a Treker, too! )

First and foremost, I recommend that you get yourself some water test kits. Ammonia, nitrite and, eventually nitrate are the most important ones. When a fish eats, it eliminates. That elimination is in the form of ammonia. The ammonia builds up in the water and, unless something happens to remove it, the water can become toxic. Strong fish can live for quite a time in rather toxic, ammonia laden water with no outward signs, but the first time a little problem comes along, they tend to take it VERY hard - and have severe problems very quickly. TEst your ammonia - I think you might be suprised at what you get! Ammonia over 0.50 is not good - much over 0.75ppm is toxic.

Goldfish are amoung the messiest and dirtiest fish on the planet - they are GORGEOUS - but messy. A single goldfish can foul the water in a 10 gallon tank in a matter of hours. We generally teach the use of the "Nitrogen Cycle" to control the waste in the goldfish tank. This utilizes two types of beneficial bacteria - the first type takes the ammonia and transforms it into nitrIte. The second type transforms the nitrIte into nitrAte - and you remove the nitrate with water changes. With good filtration and a nice biological platform of beneficial bacteria, you can easily keep one goldfish in 10 gallons of water with approximately 20-25% water changes once a week. These numbers will change as the size of the fish changes, the amount of water you change out, how often you change the water, what sort of filtration you have (gph) and the bioplatform you build.

Sound complicated? Not really. And besides - we are all here to help you.

First - your fish. 4 fish in a 10 gallons is so very overstocked that you are going to have no success in keeping them healthy in there for any length of time. They can simply foul the water too quickly. Is uggest the first thing you do is change out your water - do a 100% change if you can. Add in your dechlorinator -and match the temp as closely as you can. The fresh water will help a lot. What I suspect is that you have a bit of fungus or infection on your fish. With poor water parameters, what would normally be no big deal could turn into something quite serious.

Second - I would like you to read some links I will provide for you at the end of this message. It will give you an overview of goldfish keeping. Please please - ask any questions you may have. We all started where you are - and all learned. We are happy to help and share! _

Third - give serious consideration to upgrading your fish's home - four fish really need more water. You can keep 4 fish in 30 gallons - with great filtration and a lot of work - but in general it is considered that 10 gallons per fish gives you the minimum work for the greatest success. Until you can upgrade, a great "tank" can be made from a Rubbermaid (or another brand) tub. Filters hang over very nicely and the volume can be good.

Welcome to Koko's.
http://www.kokosgoldfish.invisionzone.com/...showtopic=11275

http://www.kokosgoldfish.com/care.html

http://www.kokosgoldfish.com/tensteps.html

http://www.kokosgoldfish.com/cycle.html

i would try some aquarium salt at about a tablespoon per 5-10 gallons

my son's black moor had the same thing going on, i think it's their skin producing extra mucus in reaction to something

aquarium salt cleared it right up

EDIT: wow, didn't see how overstocked you are, forget aquarium salt, you need a bigger tank

As for ammonia levels, I've been testing their water with test strips that I payed too much money for. They consistantly test at 1.0 ppm, but don't be too worried about the fish. They turn the exact same color in tap water. And dechlorinated water. And filtered water. Water that hasn't seen fish for months or years. Tests the very same both before and after a water change, 25% or 50%. It's infuriating. I want my $15 back. If I knew that a particular brand would work, then I would go out and buy it. But not knowing what does and doesn't work, I'm reluctant to spend more money. As for nitrite and nitrate, the woman working in the fish section of Pet World (Yes, that's really what the store is called) said that they don't usually become a problem for at least a month, and so I didn't buy those tests initially. I will get them very soon, although it would be nice to have a recommendation as to which ones give accurate readings.

Thanks for your advice on the tank size. Sadly, this will may mean chosing between keeping them at college and keeping them healthy, but I'll be looking into my options. I'd been told agallon per inch of fish. I figured I had five inches to go. And thanks for the links, too. I started out not knowing anything goldfish, but I'm really learning fast!

that rule isn't really very good

goldfish produce a lot of waste, and coldwater, tropical, and saltwater all have different levels of bioload they can handle

also, goldfish get BIG

ten gallons per goldfish is a better rule of thumb, but even that isn't so accurate

a common goldfish can get over a foot long; WAY too big for a ten gallon tank

Thanks l3vi. Now that I'm thinking of it, I can add salt to their water tomorrow after doing a water change, while I probably won't be able to get a bigger tank (or even a rubbermaid) for several days. Would it be a good idea to add salt in the meantime? Is this just plain, uniodized table salt, or the salt like you buy in the pet store for saltwater aquariums? If it's special salt, it would take me as long to get it as to get a bigger tank. If this is just table salt, I could put it in their tank immediatly.

Also, that's pretty amazing that goldfish can get so large. I never knew. My granddad had a goldfish for as long as I can remember. The goldfish is still around, but I say "had" because my granddad isn't. It's about seven inches long. My mom told me that before I was born, he had three goldfish, but two of them died. I think the one that is still alive is 20 or 22. Either way, older than I am. It's only 7 inches, but I guess that could be because of its tank size cramping its style. It's been in a 10 gallon tank my whole life, and I'm assuming its whole life, too. Still, I'd like all four of my fish to live, not just one, and so if a bigger tank is the way to go, then a bigger tank is the way to go. I'll make the transition as soon as I can. If you guys can suggest how to keep them healthy between now and then, that would be great.

7 inches at 20 years is severely stunted I am afraid. But kudos for 20 years indeed! Anyway sounds like you are on the right track re- looking into a tank upgrade. The first year of a fishes life is crucial. This is the year that fish develop their inner organs and immune response system and if the first year you can provide large space, good nutrition (including number one variety) and good water they have agood chance of longer, happier lives with less disease appearing and of course impressive growth and great color.

Salt is a great tonic for beginning probs of all kinds. Good idea. Click on the link in my sig to talk you through which salt and how much

Well you've already learned a lot! including that the test strips are not to be trusted. Aquarium Pharacuetical (API) test kits are usually available at the local pet shops. Minimum would be ammonia, nitrite and ph..better yet to add nitrate and kh.