• Test Results for the Following:
  Ammonia Level? 0
  Nitrite Level? 0
  Nitrate level? 20
  Ph Level, (If possible,KH and GH and chloramines)? 8.2 KH 7 drops, soft-GH 13 drops, hard | Red Sea KH/GH test kit
  Ph Level out of the Tap? 8.0
  
• Tank size (How many Gals) and How long has it been running? 20 Gallons running since December 26, 2007. Fully cycled
  
• What is the name and size of the filter/s? Penguin Biowheel 150
  
• How often do you change the water and how much? Every 5 days, 50%
  

How many fish in the tank and their size? Chubby is 4" Booger is 2"
<li>What kind of water additives or conditioners? Amquel+ and NovAqua
<li>Any medications added to the tank? I'm at 0.2% salt right now, no other meds yet.
<li>Add any new fish to the tank? No
<li>What do you feed your fish? Pro-Gold, Hikari Gold, peas, flakes occasionally
<li>Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt", about three missing scales. Booger is fine and acting normal.
bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? No
<li>Any unusual behavior like staying Yes, video attached.
at the bottom, not eating, ect..? Crazy wild swimming, upside down, sideways, butt in the air...I fast my fishies once a week.


In this video you can see him floating at the top, in a butt towards the sky manner -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67fJrhdPYnw&feature=user


This is how he acted when I literally scared the crap out of him while he was floating -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-qaMCrJ6WM

I recently cleaned a bunch of algae from the tank, I left algae on the ornament and rocks only. My nitrates have gone up considerable since doing so.

Please, someone help...Chubby would be sorely missed by a lot of folks if he were to pass.

I am so sorry this posted twice, I went back to edit it and was interupted by a salesperson, forgot where I was and made a mistake. So Sorry.

I fed Chubby some peas and now he has a long streak of clearish white poo coming from him, here is a pic-

Hi luvbender I can't help in diagnosing but I just wanted to tell you that the second video keeps saying it's unavailable..sorry to here about your fish I hope he'll get better soon ...

I saw the second I found it through the first one ....she does seem to look as if she can't stay close to the bottom..

In the first video, I snuck up on him while he was just floating in the top corner of the tank. Head down, tail up, perfectly still. When I reached in to rouse him, he went berzerk.

Here is the video link to his floating -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67fJrhdPYnw&feature=user

Hope it works this time and I hope a Mod comes along soon. I'm really worried.

I deleted the other thread, it's OK.
I don't know about the fish though, is he flashing?
My fish flash sometimes, but if the fish flashes again and again
something could be wrong, like parasites.

That's what I was thinking (parasites) which is why I've started a salt regime. Yes, he was flashing so I did a big wc. During the wc, I cleaned most of the brown algae out. My nitrates have risen (from 10 to 20) since removing the brown algae. But like I said, he was flashing before the wc.

The amount of time he spends floating in the top corner is really freaking me out. If I leave the room for a while, then come back and peek at him, he is usually floating.

Hi luvbender!

Chubby is a gorgeous fish! I'll pm somebody for you. Help will be here soon!

Just wondering about how long this has been going on hun? I do remember you treated your fish intensively for parasites and I would be inclined to think that with it only being Chubby and the head down tilt he is suffering from something in his tummy. That could be something as simple as overfeeding or it could be egg absorption (my female with egg impact issues floats in a similar postion top corner of the tank before eggs are reabsorbed and exited through her poop) or it could be some infection inside..

The white clear poop is free of bubbles (that might indicate digestion probs) but the color shows that either she is stressed from something or her white cells are fighting something. Its not a bad thing in itself, its a warning, its something to keep your eye on. How many days does this kind of poop last? A week like this? A few days? Is there any normal poop in between? There's a difference. Her immunity must have a go first at fighting off whatever it is before meds.

I would start with trying to eliminate possibilities. How much do you feed? How often? Does fasting help?Have you fed live foods recently that could have been contaminated?

Individual fish have individual sensitivities. We have to get to know these. Some fish are salt sensitive, some are nitrate sensitive etc.
How is your pH? Stable? Temperature? Have a think about what is different now from when he was swimming well and not at the top. You have a lot of ornaments in the tank and sometimes these can harbor all manner of secret pockets of bacteria. Its a lot more work having these in a tank. They need weekly taking out and cleaning down and the tank bottom scrubbed where they sat. Bacterial overload will make a fish flipover and float and act as if the water is "thick". A little more info on all that and I'll check back later.

OK, the temp of the tank is 71 which is normal. Before I cleaned the tank he was flashing which is why I did a huge wc. 50% or more. The nitrates in the tank "before" the wc were lower than they are now. But, like I said he was flashing prior to the wc. I haven't fed any live foods ever, haven't ventured that far yet. The flashing started on Monday, I fasted them on Tuesday, did the big wc on Thursday night. If anything, Chubby eats less than Booger. Booger is fast and can hold a load in his tiny mouth. I have to hand feed Chub's sometimes just to make sure he gets fed. Yes, I've seen normal poop. Short strands that are the same color as the food. However, there have been long stringy poos too which is why I fast them or feed peas only for 3-4 meals. I think it's SBD but the flashing has me confused and thinking it's something else...internal parasites? If it were flukes again, Booger would have them too...right? I mean really, he acted like a wild maniac the few times I roused him out of floating position. Darted and zoomed all over the place. The ph is stable. I haven't gone to 0.3% salt yet and I'm willing to take a go without harsh meds for now.

I'm sorry that my writing isn't very organized but it's late and I just got home from work, I hope it makes sense for now and that I was able to answer all your questions.

If it is SBD, will he have it forever? Do you think I should allow more algea to grow to keep the nitrates down? I only allowed a large amount of algae in my tank for about 2 weeks, could he have adapted to the low nitrates and now the high nitrates aren't agreeing with him?

Good night for now Trinket, thank you for coming to the rescue. My family would be crushed if he died, none of them have ever known a fish that could have so much personality.

Thank you vickie!

He's not going to die but his behavior means something is up. The flashing especially is not normal. It means something is irritating his slime coat and I am wondering what that is

Did you take out the ornaments yet and cleared any debris under there? It is amazing how a small amount of hidden poop or food that has not been sucked up by the filter can breed thousands of nasty bacteria. How are your filters? Has the media had a good rinse recently? If the rinse water for media is dark grey, very cloudy or middle to dark brown, those rinses need to be more frequent.

Nitrates can have a big impact on some fish yes. They can affect balance by interfering with the vasodilation of the thin capillaries in the walls of the 2 air sacs- the swimbladder. These can be blocked and inflamed by high nitrates, preventing correct flow through of gases that maintain balance, so yes, high nitrates can certainly play a part in flipover/bouyancy problems.

As well as temperature change and pH change, some kinds of plastic and leeching metals can make a fish flash. Anything new like that?

Bouyancy issues are complex and certain fish are more prone and will always be prone to them. Once it starts it will probably return with bouts of normal swimming in between. Given the right sustained conditions the normal bouts can be increased and maintained but when anything lapses, the fish will flip or get floaty again.

Good morning.

When I woke up this morning he seemed OK. I tested the nitrates and they are at 20. The nitrates out of my tap are at 10. So frustrating! And the only thing that will get rid of them is an under sink filtration system for RO. #1. I can't afford one. #2. This is not my house. I live with my mom right now. My nitrates were the best they've ever been when I had all the ugly algae. I have to imagine that the algae couldn't all be gone completely, there must be some residing in the filter. My water was green after the last cleaning. I'm going to vacuum the tank today, remove the ornament (it has a lot of algae on it and I'm reluctant to remove it for that purpose). As I'm sitting here typing, Chubby is floating. Booger is trying to nudge him and he won't move. I fed them peas this morning, nothing else. I added a capful of Amquel+ and some NovAqua to the water. I'll add a bit more once I do a vacuuming. I won't add anymore salt. Should I get some Medigold? I'm going to order some today. There have been no new additions to the tank ie. plastics or metals.

You know how when you submerge a rubber ball, it floats abck up to the top and bounces. That's what Chubby is doing when he tries to dive deep, floating back to the top and bouncing. It's like he's just given up on swimming.

Poor Booger, really wants to play and Chubby just sits there. Chubby yawns a bit more than he used to too.

Thank you Imogen...hope to hear from you soon.

Goodmorning luvbender,

If you want to try medigold go ahead. But remember this. Medigold and antibiotic foods contain antibiotics which means they only work against bacteria. Water based problems that cause sbd symptoms are actually much more common and will be unaffected by medigold.

And the kanamycin in medigold affects the kidneys so repeated doses of medigold weaken the kidney which is the very organ sbd fish need to be in excellent health because it osmotes poisons from the fish and when damaged is responsible for abnormal fluid retention. Many older fishes that are up the top in the corner permanently unable to get down owe that condition to overuse of aminoglycide type antibiotics of which medigold is the most popular. A malfunctioning kidney causes kidneyboat/dropsy.

Not wanting to put you off, just giving you the facts. Every fish can manage medigold once or twice in its lifetime but effects may be reduced each time so it is best kept for when it is truly needed. If Chubby was showing red streaks and bacterial sores as well as this condition I would definitely suggest medigold. Without, well it is still possible he has an internal bacterial infection but less likely. It's your call

I do understand you want to be doing something. How long has the salt been at 0.3%? Perhaps you should take it down to 0.1% now.
Take out the algae ornament and vacuum in there. The algae will survive if the ornament is submerged in water while you work on that.
I'm sorry about the tap water, that's a real bummer with fish. The only way round tap nitrates seems to be sitting out the water with nitrate zorb puches, it's a lot of work.

Can you have a close look at Chubby and see if there are any other symptoms at all. Flaring gills, any small red spots, fin probs? Anything? Could the flashing have been irritation at losing balance? How is his poop and appetite now?

I don't want to butt in here as Trinket is doing her usual brilliant job, but I just wanted to suggest that you keep all the green algae you can in your tank. If it grows on the glass, many people just wipe it off the front and leave it on the sides. The algae that you don't want is that cruddy brown stuff as it promotes grossly bad bacs.

Right now I (again) have green algae growing on the glass under my light. I just let it grow, and it sometimes hangs into the water. Silly Moby will literally jump up to get a bite of it, lol. He thinks he's a trout or something!

Good Morning Vickie and Trinket,

Thank you for spending time with me and Chubs.

When I woke up this morning all was well, Chubby was at the bottom of the tank in his usual rest spot. I did notice a chunk of regular pea colored poo that had a loooooong thin white stringy thing, and a strand of just the white stringy stuff. I fed both of them defrosted cooked shrimp and peas, they really enjoyed it. Yesterday, I removed the ornament and vacuumed really well. I put a new filter cartridge in with an old one. My salt only ever went up to 0.2% and I did not replace salt when I added fresh water. I only changed out about 10% of the water, but added a full cap of Amquel+ and a nice splash of NovAqua.

My algae is brown. The tank sits in direct view of the one window in my room. It doesn't get direct sun ever, but does get whatever light comes in. This is what is confusing to me, my nitrates were perfect when I had the brown algae growing. I would be happy to let it grow back. I hear that sometimes it will even turn green? But Vickie, you say the brown is bad? Is there anything I can do to grow good algae? I think that is my best hope for controling nitrate.

I am going to order Medigold just to have it on hand. I think Chubby can overcome whatever is ailing him since it's not causing any fin probs or other symptoms. He has three missing scales right now, two have been missing for a while, one is a new loss. Happened on Wednesday. The only other odd activity was longer than normal yawning, I've taken to calling him liver-lips now.

Thanks again Trinket and Vickie, looking forward to your reply. Have a good day.

HI luvbender I read that only blue algae,red algae and a few others were bacteria based not brown .I also have the lovley brown stuff and became concerned about it.

You know, when I cleaned it all off the glass it turned my tank water green. I wonder if it was green algae in the making? I'm going to try and grow it again. I left it on the rocks, so I have a start.

maybe a few plants if your fish can keep there lips off of them

I have two beautiful Anubias in the tank and my fish don't touch them. Even the flowering sprouts (like a spider plant) are left a lone. I just read an article on algae that was interesting. It said that if you leave a small amount of algae in the tank, like on a rock, it won't come back as fast because it has to compete for the nutrients. Haven't been able to find an article about green vs. brown algae that suits my needs.

Been Googling all morning!

So this is what's been happening lately. I fed shrimp and peas yesterday. I wasn't home long enough to observe Chubby to see if he floats still. This morning I woke up and he was being very aggressive towards Booger. Actually, I had to reach in my tank and move Booger to get him to wake up this morning. When the lights came on I observed very aggressive behavior from Chubby. Booger tried to sit in a corner and Chubby rammed, and nipped and pushed. Chubby chases Booger everywhere, it used to be the other way around. Chubs was trying to bite Boogers butt. Is this from the shrimp I fed? Is my fish a cannibal now? I tested the water and came up with-

Ammonia - 0
Nitrates - 20
Nitrites - 5 (how can this be?)
ph - 8.2
Temp - 71

I did change out one of the filter cartridges in the tank, it was torn and ratty looking. So now there is an old and a new cartridge in the Penguin Biowheel 150. I did a 25% wc this morning, I was on my way to work and did not have time for any more than that. I put the ornament back in because I want to give Booger a hiding place.

So my question is...what's up with the Nitrites, did the new filter cartridge do that? What's up with the aggressive behavior?

I have breeding stars on Chubby, and eggs in the tank. I think that might explain a lot?

Well first of all the nitrites explain the being at the top. Nitrites in the water affects the red blood cells ability to transport oxygen so the fish will try to find a place where there is more dissolved oxygen, usually at the top. Nitrites can have a bad longterm affect on gill function so watch them like a hawk from now and get those to zero via as many partial w.changes as it takes.

Salting the water to 0.1 or 0.2% helps minimilise the stress and bad effects of nitrite tweaks.

No, your fish are not sudden cannibals. They are excited by the shrimp probably. And stressd somewhat by the nitrites. The new filter cartridge may have tweaked the cycle yes. Add more media the filter box to compensate if you can. Literally as much as you can pack in without affecting flow. The bbs will soon re-colonise.

Edit: Just read your last post. Breeding behavior then!! CONGRATS!!!!!!

As I said earlier, hanging at the surface with her head down is how my female behaves when she has eggs coming!! So that will explain a lot yes

So, luvbender, maybe "Boogerette or Ms. Booger" would be more appropriate?

Seems like you're going to be a grandpa, lol!

congrats !!!!!!!

Helloooo, I'm a female! What's with the "grandpa" reference? I really can't stand any of you right now, you're having waaayyyy too much fun at my expense...

And for the record, Booger's real name is Shinju. We're going to start calling her Ju-Ju.

Somehow I had a feeling you were going to ask me to get more media. I bought a "Bio Max" filter insert. It's for an AquaClear filter, but I have room in my filter for it, do ya think it'll work? If so, I will put it in.

I'm still at about 0.1% salt from the last time I salted to 0.2%. My recent water changes have prolly brought it down to 0.1%, so bravo!

Thanks Trinket!

Oh gosh I don't know what I was thinking, um...GRANNY!!

I guess its as easy online to get confused about males and females sometimes. Just like fish, lol!!

I apologize. Its not funny.

Actually it is!! Fish and owner gender mistake rolled in one

sorry to laugh luvbender . I'm so pleased we've solved Booger's mystery problem though

You ladies are having far too much fun here!!
You know, luvbender, at least she lived up to her nickname.. "Why you little booger - you went and dumped eggs all over the fish tank!!! "

Congratulations, Granny! You ladies best behave yourselves, or she'll hit you with her cane!

Debbie

You're all gonna get it...may the poopers of a thousand female goldfish dump eggs in YOUR tanks!

Hmmm...I THINK both of mine are male.....

Of course with fish its just as hard to tell as with some humans, lol!

Seriously luvbender, I'm very glad that you and Imogen have gotten some of the fish troubles figured out. Its unbelievable how attached we get to the little guys, or gal in your case.

I have a guy and a gal, imagine that! It's my guy that has been giving me the problems, the baby girl has always been steady and healthy. Never gave me a moments worry. I can be a drama queen sometimes, but I do have my moments when my worries are justified.

How are things, Luvbender?

It sounds like a swim bladder problem. Did you try fasting him for a couple of days before feeding the peas? I am new to all of this, but have been researching for a long time now. That's what it seems like to me. Mine has just developed a little bit of the clear / whitish poo also. I just posted to try to find out what that is. He is swimming fine though. Good luck with your fishie!