Breeders have made such beautiful and diverse kinds of goldfish. I was just wondering if there were any goldfish that were bred to be small.
Full Version: No Such Thing As Miniature Goldfish?
Generally, ping-pong pearlscales are smaller than average compared to almost all of the breeds. Good care and feeding could still produce tomato-sized specimens though...
QUOTE(Man Yu @ Feb 6 2008, 12:13 PM) 
Generally, ping-pong pearlscales are smaller than average compared to almost all of the breeds. Good care and feeding could still produce tomato-sized specimens though...
Ping-pong pearlies are smaller? Well, they seem that way, but their body mass can rival that of a fish twice bigger, so in terms of waste produced then it's not miniature at all
The only mini goldfish I think the Siamese Doll, and runts/rejects.
total length-wise, of course Riz...
Though of course not everyone equates pudginess to small size so... meh.
Though of course not everyone equates pudginess to small size so... meh.
QUOTE(d_golem @ Feb 5 2008, 08:16 PM)
QUOTE(Man Yu @ Feb 6 2008, 12:13 PM)
Generally, ping-pong pearlscales are smaller than average compared to almost all of the breeds. Good care and feeding could still produce tomato-sized specimens though...
Ping-pong pearlies are smaller? Well, they seem that way, but their body mass can rival that of a fish twice bigger, so in terms of waste produced then it's not miniature at all
The only mini goldfish I think the Siamese Doll, and runts/rejects.
Whats a siamese doll?Can you post a pic?Rejects a bit harsh dont cha think?LOL
"culls" almost certainly equal to "rejects" in a breeder's point of view, so the question of "harshness" over terms isn't really that big a part of the equation anyway...
for all of those that do not know what Siamese Doll Goldfish are check this link out
http://www.kokosgoldfish.invisionzone.com/...showtopic=63892
http://www.kokosgoldfish.invisionzone.com/...showtopic=63892
QUOTE(dan in aus @ Feb 6 2008, 01:41 AM)
for all of those that do not know what Siamese Doll Goldfish are check this link out
http://www.kokosgoldfish.invisionzone.com/...showtopic=63892
http://www.kokosgoldfish.invisionzone.com/...showtopic=63892
That is a very nice fish. Interesting look to it.
QUOTE(d_golem @ Feb 5 2008, 08:16 PM)
QUOTE(Man Yu @ Feb 6 2008, 12:13 PM)
Generally, ping-pong pearlscales are smaller than average compared to almost all of the breeds. Good care and feeding could still produce tomato-sized specimens though...
Ping-pong pearlies are smaller? Well, they seem that way, but their body mass can rival that of a fish twice bigger, so in terms of waste produced then it's not miniature at all
The only mini goldfish I think the Siamese Doll, and runts/rejects.
Runts/rejects? Ooooo that hurt!
that may sound hurtful, but in the large scope of things - it is a fact. MANY fish (as well as other creatures on this Earth) are simply "put together" wrong when they are hatched. Within a single spawning you can get fish whose digestive tract is in particularly GOOD working order, whose fins are just right to give them great swimming ability, and whose eyesight, etc. are great. These fish will naturally grow more quickly than their counterparts who may have one or more "handicaps".
All too often these "handicaps" will cause the fish to be "less than" its brother. That is where fish sort out in "quality" - size, health, strength, etc.
A breeder, interested in the best, strongest, and healthiest will not use the "less than" fish in his breeding program. Most people would not choose to raise a sickly, stunted fish - and breeders generally do not have the room to waste on ones that may or may not even grow to adult size - much less a fish that cannot be sold, shown or bred. They are culled.
Nature culls a lot of them - there are distinct die-off periods in a young fish's life. I think these are times when the fish's size finally outshoots it's ability to cope with it physical problems - and it dies.
In places that bring you fish at very cheap prices, the fish are raised for numbers, not quality. Any fish that makes it to a certain size, regardless of physical presentation, is sold. You CAN find ones that will only be 1 inch at several years of age. But that is not necessarily good. It means that the fish has not had good food availability, good water perhaps, or perhaps has immunity issues or is dealing with parasites or disease or genetic flaws.
As so wisely stated here - the PingPong Pearlscale is a shorter fish than the others - but it makes up for it in MASS. It can be only 5 inches long, but carry the mass of a longer, more streamlined fish like a Comet of much great length.
Goldfish are larger tank fish. They get much bigger than people are used to thinking. I guess what I am trying to get to is that you need to just assume that any goldfish you get - if it is healthy and raised well - will get BIG. That is the nature of the creature. If you want a smaller fish, get guppies.
I love 'em BIG!
All too often these "handicaps" will cause the fish to be "less than" its brother. That is where fish sort out in "quality" - size, health, strength, etc.
A breeder, interested in the best, strongest, and healthiest will not use the "less than" fish in his breeding program. Most people would not choose to raise a sickly, stunted fish - and breeders generally do not have the room to waste on ones that may or may not even grow to adult size - much less a fish that cannot be sold, shown or bred. They are culled.
Nature culls a lot of them - there are distinct die-off periods in a young fish's life. I think these are times when the fish's size finally outshoots it's ability to cope with it physical problems - and it dies.
In places that bring you fish at very cheap prices, the fish are raised for numbers, not quality. Any fish that makes it to a certain size, regardless of physical presentation, is sold. You CAN find ones that will only be 1 inch at several years of age. But that is not necessarily good. It means that the fish has not had good food availability, good water perhaps, or perhaps has immunity issues or is dealing with parasites or disease or genetic flaws.
As so wisely stated here - the PingPong Pearlscale is a shorter fish than the others - but it makes up for it in MASS. It can be only 5 inches long, but carry the mass of a longer, more streamlined fish like a Comet of much great length.
Goldfish are larger tank fish. They get much bigger than people are used to thinking. I guess what I am trying to get to is that you need to just assume that any goldfish you get - if it is healthy and raised well - will get BIG. That is the nature of the creature. If you want a smaller fish, get guppies.
I love 'em BIG!
QUOTE(daryl @ Feb 6 2008, 10:52 PM)
I love 'em BIG!OOOO YEAH! BIGGER IS BETTER
But isn't mishapes how we got out beloved fancy goldfish in the first place?
True, but there's a sorta unconscious barrier that separates "good misshapes" and "bad misshapes".
If u want to raise a breed of goldfish with crooked spine, misshapen mouth & a twig-for-a-tail, then be my guest
If u want to raise a breed of goldfish with crooked spine, misshapen mouth & a twig-for-a-tail, then be my guest
I was kind of hoping that someone out there had done some breeding selection for a smaller size. I think the goldfish are so friendly and nice to have around, but the truth is that you really need a very large tank to keep them well them indoors. I suspect that if someone bred for a particular kind of smaller goldfish, a lot of people would be able to keep healthier, happier goldfishes, because not everyone can have a 50+ gallon tank. And for me - I love goldfish the best.
QUOTE(daryl @ Feb 6 2008, 05:52 AM)
that may sound hurtful, but in the large scope of things - it is a fact. MANY fish (as well as other creatures on this Earth) are simply "put together" wrong when they are hatched. Within a single spawning you can get fish whose digestive tract is in particularly GOOD working order, whose fins are just right to give them great swimming ability, and whose eyesight, etc. are great. These fish will naturally grow more quickly than their counterparts who may have one or more "handicaps".
All too often these "handicaps" will cause the fish to be "less than" its brother. That is where fish sort out in "quality" - size, health, strength, etc.
A breeder, interested in the best, strongest, and healthiest will not use the "less than" fish in his breeding program. Most people would not choose to raise a sickly, stunted fish - and breeders generally do not have the room to waste on ones that may or may not even grow to adult size - much less a fish that cannot be sold, shown or bred. They are culled.
Nature culls a lot of them - there are distinct die-off periods in a young fish's life. I think these are times when the fish's size finally outshoots it's ability to cope with it physical problems - and it dies.
In places that bring you fish at very cheap prices, the fish are raised for numbers, not quality. Any fish that makes it to a certain size, regardless of physical presentation, is sold. You CAN find ones that will only be 1 inch at several years of age. But that is not necessarily good. It means that the fish has not had good food availability, good water perhaps, or perhaps has immunity issues or is dealing with parasites or disease or genetic flaws.
As so wisely stated here - the PingPong Pearlscale is a shorter fish than the others - but it makes up for it in MASS. It can be only 5 inches long, but carry the mass of a longer, more streamlined fish like a Comet of much great length.
Goldfish are larger tank fish. They get much bigger than people are used to thinking. I guess what I am trying to get to is that you need to just assume that any goldfish you get - if it is healthy and raised well - will get BIG. That is the nature of the creature. If you want a smaller fish, get guppies.
I love 'em BIG!
All too often these "handicaps" will cause the fish to be "less than" its brother. That is where fish sort out in "quality" - size, health, strength, etc.
A breeder, interested in the best, strongest, and healthiest will not use the "less than" fish in his breeding program. Most people would not choose to raise a sickly, stunted fish - and breeders generally do not have the room to waste on ones that may or may not even grow to adult size - much less a fish that cannot be sold, shown or bred. They are culled.
Nature culls a lot of them - there are distinct die-off periods in a young fish's life. I think these are times when the fish's size finally outshoots it's ability to cope with it physical problems - and it dies.
In places that bring you fish at very cheap prices, the fish are raised for numbers, not quality. Any fish that makes it to a certain size, regardless of physical presentation, is sold. You CAN find ones that will only be 1 inch at several years of age. But that is not necessarily good. It means that the fish has not had good food availability, good water perhaps, or perhaps has immunity issues or is dealing with parasites or disease or genetic flaws.
As so wisely stated here - the PingPong Pearlscale is a shorter fish than the others - but it makes up for it in MASS. It can be only 5 inches long, but carry the mass of a longer, more streamlined fish like a Comet of much great length.
Goldfish are larger tank fish. They get much bigger than people are used to thinking. I guess what I am trying to get to is that you need to just assume that any goldfish you get - if it is healthy and raised well - will get BIG. That is the nature of the creature. If you want a smaller fish, get guppies.
I love 'em BIG!Oh, I do agree with you, I prefer BIG as well. However as a sensitive person I tend to feel all creatures have a reason or purpose, understandly not the standard of some. Survival of the fittest has its value in society however when a handicap becomes an asset it can be very enlightening.
(Whoa, entirely too deep here)
QUOTE(d_golem @ Feb 6 2008, 09:35 AM)
True, but there's a sorta unconscious barrier that separates "good misshapes" and "bad misshapes".
If u want to raise a breed of goldfish with crooked spine, misshapen mouth & a twig-for-a-tail, then be my guest
If u want to raise a breed of goldfish with crooked spine, misshapen mouth & a twig-for-a-tail, then be my guest
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder isn't it? Also the acceptable level of the compromise of the goldies well being.
For example I think bubble eyes and pearlscales are adorable. However I will probably never own one as I think we humans have gone over the line on those in terms of sacrificing the well being and comfort of the animal for the sake of aesthetics.
Speaking of crooked spine, ranchus have them. Their vertebrae is clearly distorted to give them that curve that we all find so cute.
Orandas are on of my favorite goldies. However there are many people who find the mutation cruel as they are severely top heavy and in some cases completely hinder their vision.
Most goldie hobbyist find Orandas adorable. However if you ask the member of the general public, many of them will tell you they are ugly mutations.
Like I said, beauty is in the eye of the beholder....
Oh come on now i was just playing.lol. But i would like to tell you they prefer to be called size impared. 
That yellowish siamese doll is Beautiful!What a pretty little girl she was.I too prefer my goldfish big.There's nothing more beautiful than a big healthy goldfish.If it takes both hands to hold it,they really get my respect.But you have to admit it's hard not to fall inlove with the little stunted sick guy you see in the pet shop.
But i would like to tell you they prefer to be called size impared. That yellowish siamese doll is Beautiful!What a pretty little girl she was.I too prefer my goldfish big.There's nothing more beautiful than a big healthy goldfish.If it takes both hands to hold it,they really get my respect.But you have to admit it's hard not to fall inlove with the little stunted sick guy you see in the pet shop.
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