As some of you know, I got a used 50 gallon tank from Hyakamooks. I also adopted her shubunkin Moby. Moby is currently in the 50 gallon by himself. I also have an oranda Sosh & ryukin Jack in a 20 gallon which is fully cycled and have been their home for the last 3+ years.

I used about 15 gallon of the old water, the rocks, & the bio media but lost the cycle on the 50 gallon. The current reading is Ammo: 0.375 & the Nitrite still at 0. Once the tank is fully cycled, I am going to move Sosh & Jack into the 50 gallon with Moby.

Moby seems very healthy but I am feeding him strictly Medigold(which he loves) for a minimum of 14 days. I am planning to do a Prazi Pro in the 50 gallon with Moby also.

My questions are:

1. I should let the tank fully cycle before doing anything else(such as Prazi, salting, etc), correct?

2. Should I salt the tank also, if so, how much?

3. What else should I do to the 50 gallon before moving Sosh & Jack into it?

4. Should I do anything to the 20 gallon with Sosh & Jack also before moving them in with Moby in the 50 gallon?

Thank you so much in advance.

After a week, the ammo is at 0.375, and the Nitrites is 0. Should I do a water change? If so how much? Since there is only one fish in a 50 gallon tank, I would think that only a small water change would be necessary? I don't want to change so much that it will never cycle......

As you know, it's dependant upon what you're comfortable with. Are you using something to neutralize that ammonia so that it doesn't hurt Moby but can still be used by your BB's?

No should I be using such a product? The ammo is still unchanged at 0.375 with no Nitrites. Should I do a water change? How much? The ammo is very slow to rise compared to when I cycled my 20 gallon with Sosh & Jack becaue it is so understocked.

As you can see, one fish in a large tank is not going to overwhelm your cycling process (knock on wood).

I personally would use Prime or Amquel+ to keep that ammonia from hurting Moby, but I'm not going to tell you that you have to. That's your call. Daryl has said she likes to keep ammonia and nitrites at or below .25ppm if she is stuck cycling with fish. But you also know it takes longer the more you do WC's, so that's why there is no right or wrong thing to do right now.

Good luck, Fumi!!!!

It's really amazing the difference between a 50 gallon with one fish and a 20 gallon with 2 fish. I think if I kept the Ammo under 0.25, I'm afraid the tank will never cycle. I want the tank to cycle as soon as possible so Moby is stressed as little as possible and Sosh & Jack can enjoy the bigger tank.I think the Prime or Amquel may be the answer. Which do you recommend and can I buy it at the LFS?




Thanks Nickie! How is your tank coming along?

You can get Prime at Pet*Smart. Not sure about Auqa Mel. My tank is the same. No changes...yet! I plan on putting the coral in this wkend.

Hi JoH

This may be a stupid question.. but I was wondering if you have taken any media - or anything - from the 20 gallon to help with the cycling of the 50?
You probably have... but it wasn't mentioned.

Debbie

Yes all the rocks from the tank was left intact along with the uncleaned filter with tons of bio media. Victoria even gave me about 15 gallons of he tank water that she had syphoned out that morning. I still lost the cycle.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding... but all of that came from the 50 gallon - correct? And the cycle was lost.
So have you taken anything from Sosh and Jack's tank to help the 50?

Debbie

Well I thought about it but wanted to see if the 50 gallon would hold the cycle and if not, whether it would cycle really quick like Shamu's buck n a quarter did. I have some noodles in the filter from the 20 gallon. I should put that into the 50 gallon tank, huh? Should I take some water from the 20 gallon too? What do you think?

I think the noodles would be a good idea. If you put them near the media in the 50, it will transfer onto that quicker, too. (If there is room)
As far as the water goes, that's up to you. I have read that the bb's aren't so much in the water as in the filter, on walls and whatever you may have in the tank. That's why water changes shouldn't affect it much - except - that you need the ammonia in there to make it cycle. You take out the water, and you lessen the amount of ammonia to feed the nitrosoma bacteria.
The noodles definitely wouldn't hurt, and hopefully it'll go quicker!


Debbie

There is no more room in the filter housing. The sponge-type filer is on the bottom and there are two bags of bio-medias on top of it.

So should I put the noodles from the 20 gallons directly into the 50 gallon tank?

or

Remove one of the bags of bio media, put that into the tank directly and put the noodles from the 20 gallon into the filter housing?

I think that's your best bet! That'll put the good bb's right into the 50's filter!
If anyone else thinks something else might be better, I hope they chime in, but that seems best to me.

Debbie

Yeah that's what I thought too. OK that's what I'm going to do unless someone has a better idea.

That almost seemed like a post from the A or B thread didn't it?

Yes it did!

One other thing... when the 50 gallon cycles, it will cycle for the one fish. When you add more fish, the bb's will have to grow to match the new fish.
I think I have read that you should add fish one at a time to make it easier for the bb's to grow... but I could be wrong.

Debbie

Yes that's true. Lola warned me about that too.


I haven't done a water change but I measured the ammo today and it actually looks like it went down ever so slightly to just slightly above 0.25, down from 0.375! Is it possible that the 500gph filtration in a 50 gallon with one fish is more efficient than the production of ammo?

There was room in the side to put the noodles so I took all the noodles out of the 20 gallon and put it in the 50 gallon. I also added some buff it up as the pH had crept down to 7.0 from 7.2.

Anything else I should be doing?

Sounds good so far Fumi. Are you keeping the temp up some?

I wanna see pictures.

I don't have a heater in there so no. Basically fluctuates from probably about high 60s to about 70.

Well, ya know BB's love high temps. So it'll likely go a little slower for ya. You should keep a heater in your arsenal though. JMPO.

Are you interested in adding something like "Stability" or "Cycle" to help the process? Daniel is having success with his tank using it.

I dumped the noodles into the filter so let's see how that goes. I also leave the shades open so it gets sun from every angle.

I hope it cycles soon for ya!!!!

I have not done any water changes but in the last three days the ammo has gone down from 0.375 to 0.250 to 0.125!! Is it possible that I am so understocked that the filter is getting rid of the ammo quicker than it can get produced???

What are your other readings? Are you sure there are no nitrates/is no cycle? You should be able to transfer enough media to support one fish rather quickly I would think

Ph: 7.2
Ammo: 0.125
Nitrite: 0

I haven't tested the Nitrated the last few days but it was 0 before. I don't see why it would be otherwise as the Nitrite has never appeared...

No water changes at all and now the params are:

Ammo: Zero!!!
Nitrite: Zero
Nitrate: Zero

It has been a week now since the last water change and instead of the ammo climbing, it has gone from 0.375 to 0.250 to 0.125 to 0.00!!!

Yes the fish is being fed well and he poops.

What is going on? Is it possible that a 50 gallon tank with a 500gph filter is more efficient than the waste production of one fish???

When should I do a water change?

Is this a planted tank?

As the ammonia disappears, it becomes nitrites and then nitrates. However, if you have plants (or a large amount of algae), they will consume the nitrAtes back into nitrogen gas and stuff. If you have a good number of plants, that could be why nothing it showing up. Otherwise, the ammonia really should be going *somewhere* (nitrItes or nitrAtes).

No plants and very little algae. It was an established tank in another home, I bought it use a couple of weeks ago and used some of the water/filter/bio meda from it and the bio media from my established 20 gallon tank. It did not keep the cycle and the ammo slowly climbed to 0.375. Now it is at zero with no Nitrites and Nitrates! ????

Just wondering - is it exactly zero, or a bit darker than zero?
While it's great that you have no ammonia or nitrites, having no nitrates is curious, isn't it?

Debbie

Debbie don't you have the same setup as this tank? One Shubunkin in a 55 gallon? The only difference is that yours is cycled. Do you have 0 Nitrates?

No - but I never got them down to 0. I got them down between 5 - 10, and that's where they are every time I test. I do two water changes a week, between 12 - 24 gallons. (I'll do 12 a few times, then do 24)
I test every 4 - 5 days. Ammonia and Nitrate always zero, of course - and pH is always between 7.8 and 8 - so, 7.9.
I haven't tested the nitrates after a water change since I'm running low on the test kit, and still keeping the 10 gallon going for a future fish QT.
How big is Moby? Dot is a little over 6" now.

Debbie

Moby is about 4" body + 1" tail.

I guess you'll just have to do more waiting to see what's going on.
Maybe the nitrates will start to show up in a few days. I'll keep my fingers crossed!

Debbie

Yeah I'm actually looking forward to doing the tests tomorrow. I can't wait to see what the reading is in this crazy tank tomorrow!

I hope your nitrates are gonna kick in for ya!!! At least there is no ammonia and nitrites!!! Maybe it is closed to finishing the cycle!!!! Fingers crossed for ya!!!

I got Nitrates!!!!

The params now are:

pH: 7.2
Ammo: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 2.5


The mystery is that the Nitrites never appeared & where did the disappearing Ammo go?

Here is my theory...

1. The tank was destined to cycle really fast because I used some of the original water, the filter, & the bio medias.

2. The day that the ammo started to go down(about the 10th day or so.), I also dumped all the noodles from the 20 gallon into the filter housing of the 50 gallon. This must've kicked the bacs into full throttle and the transition from ammo to nitrite to nitrate must've happened practically overnight.

Does this make sense?


So this brings up a whole new set of questions....

1. When should I do a WC and how much? Believe it or not, I have not done one yet(2 weeks) as the water params have been "perfect".

2. I want to do a prazi pro treatment, when should I do it?

3. Should I do an Anti-bac bath?

4. Salting the tank?

5. What other precautions before I move Sosh & Jack into their new home with Moby?

If you have any answers/suggestions to any of the above, please let me know!

Congrats. Sounds like you have yourself a tentative cycle. Remember the first few weeks to check daily with a transferred cycle. I had the same with my fry tank. 000 and then 002-5. Then, every time I did a w/c I got a bacterial bloom as the bbs were flustered! I ended up having to do tiny w/cs more often rather than any too big w/cs. I'd start small..

Keep an eye on things...but well done!

Are you doing prazi for just the new fish or all 3?

You can do 0.3% salt with that.

Why do you need to do antibac bath? Does he have any symptoms? Bacterial infections are treated when they present usually. Treating with no symptoms weakens the fish.

So when should I do it and how much?




I was just thinking of Moby and the 50 gallon. Sosh and Jack got prazi pro back last summer when I was treating Jack for his illness.




Is this necessary or recommended? And if so when do I do it?




No he seems to be the picture of health. So scratch that idea. This is precisely why I asked so I can get expert answers like this.


Thank you so much Imogen! How long should I wait before starting Prazi & Salting(if necessary). Any thing else I need to do before moving in Sosh & Jack?

Congratulations on the cycle!!
Personally - I like to keep adding fresh water to the tank, so I opted to do them twice a week. At least 25%, so it would be 50% per week. I'd like to get another fish one of these days, so I figured I'd start the routine early.
If you want, maybe wait a day or so just to see how the nitrates change each day with one fish. But then I'd start them so nasties don't have time to start building up.
I'm no expert like Trinket is, but I would think that once your sure everything is stable, you could start the salt.
I can't think of anything else - other than what you have already thought of.

Congrats again! They're going to love their new home once Moby is ready for them!

Debbie

Yeah I was thinking of the same thing.

Debbie, do you think I should salt as a part of the quarantine or is that not necessary if I do the prazi pro?

Congrats!!!! I am so glad the nitrates showed for ya!!! Soon, the tank will be ready for Sosh and Jack!!! I think I would wait for a couple of days before doing the Prazi, just tomake sure the cycle is stable. Same with the wc.

I would definitely salt along with the prazi. While it does work on some parasites like the prazi, it can also kill many bacteria.
Watch for sensitivities, though. Dot didn't take .3% salt well, so I could only bring her to .2% when she needed it. You can always do a water change to take it out - if needed.
Moby may not have anything contagious - but if he's a carrier, it's safer for Jack and Sosh if you cover everything you can in the QT - without having to go with ab meds.

And by the way... we're still waiting for pictures.

Debbie

"And by the way... we're still waiting for pictures. "

I say AMEN to that! However, as we love ya, Fumi, we are waiting patiently!!!

Glad to hear things are working out for ya hon!

Don't forget..WC's add back in oxygen depleted throughout the week, so don't go strictly by low nitrates. What I wouldn't give for that problem though.

Yes I agree with Fishy fish on 25% being a good start. Watch for bacterial bloom (cloudiness after the w/c).

Remember you can always do those twice daily if a larger change out is needed. BBs bounce back in several hours.

Try the first w/c and see. If all is well. Do another- later. It is important to have fresh water/minerals in the water-those get used up. Fresh water is good

Then, maybe after that, tomorrow? you could start the prazi and salt. If you add the salt very slowly...over a few days it will not damage the BBs at all. The prazi wont either. See how the fish are. Some parasites and bad bacterai are eliminated in just 0.2%. If there is no fashing I'd think you could stick at 0.2%.

PS. The reason you don't need to do an antibac is because fish are covered in bacteria - all over (like you and me) and tehse are protective and helpful bacteria. Medication cannot differentiate so bacterial meds should only be used when we see the bad bacteria have got hold in huge numbers - the good ones can no longer cope- and so the fish can no longer protect itself.

Thanks guys!

I'll check the params tomorrow morning and if all is well, I'll do a 25% WC tomorrow night.

I also need to start removing the rocks from the bottom of the tank to get it ready for Jack.

I have been doing a 5 gallon(10%) WC daily and the params have been:

pH: 7.2 - 7.4

Ammo: 0

Nitrite: 0

Nitrate: 2.5

The Nitrate will climb to a high of 5.0 but after the daily 10% WC, it goes down to 2.5.

I have done my third and last dose of 0.1% salting and now am at the 0.3%(actually 0.31% as measured by the API test kit). Should I maintain the 0.3% for several days or should I let it go down to 0.2%? Moby shows no sign of any illness whatsoever.

The Prazi pro should be coming in the mail in a few days so I will start that also.

I can't wait to move Sosh & Jack into their new home!

It looks like things are going smoothly for you with the new tank!
I'm not sure how long you should keep the salt up at .3%, but I would think for a few days, anyway. If it's not bothering him, then it shouldn't hurt anything.
It won't be long now! Have you been telling Jack and Sosh about their new home?
We're STILL waiting for pictures!!!

Debbie