Hi all I'm new!

My Big Plans are that I want to get a 45-gallon (US) tank in the near future (after the kitchen renovations, groan) and I've been longing for goldfish for ages. I'm so glad I looked up information online before buying them, or I'd probably have three in a 10g or something.

Right now all I have, fish-wise, is a 10g (some sparkling gouramis and a wee ancistrus) and a 5g (some ADFs), but for goldfish I'd like to get a really nice big tank so I can have a few, and have them be comfortable there their whole lives (we live in a condo, so there will not be any room for upgrades). According to what I've read, I should be able to house three or four in a 45g, right?

I know about cycling, and I do it fishlessly, though for one of that size, even if have some media from the 10g to kickstart it, once it is established, is it better to add one fish (or maybe two) at first and then the rest later? Or does it not matter?

My general plan for the tank was to put river stones on the bottom, and try and get some fast-growing plants, hopefully some duckweed, to throw in as well. Is dwarf anubias okay for goldies? I like having that stuff just hang out and float, but it's tougher than the average water plant, so maybe it's not good for them, or maybe non-tropical tanks are bad for the anubias, I dunno.

I'm trying to settle on which kind of goldies I'd like to have... I like the black moors a lot, and the orandas and lionheads, though I admit to some heartache when I think how I could rescue some little feeders instead (except they're commons, right? Which go best in ponds?), and I like the shubunkin ones (but again--those are more pond fish right? God, I want to buy a house!)... the day I finally get to set up the tank is going to be great.

As well, is it true that ancistrus cats (not the big plecos) are okay in goldie tanks? Like a bristlenose or something? I'm quite fond of the tiny fellow in my 10g--he's some kind of relatively unknown white-tipped variety, and is only two inches long, even after a year!--and would give up a goldfish slot if I could fit an ancistrus in!

(Oh, and does anyone know why I couldn't make an intro post in the members forum? Said I wasn't allowed to access it.)

It matters.

Welcome by the way! Congratulations for doing your homework!

The easiest and safest way to go when adding fish, is one at a time, approx. 4 -5 days apart to keep an eye on cycle bumps. Honestly, I wouldn't put more than 3 in that sized tank....otherwise you're going to max out your room, which could cause a lot of extra work in keeping nitrates down. But if you don't mind several WC's per week, go for it! Personally, I like to let mine have the maximum space for swimming, as they can grow quite large.

Again, welcome!

Hello and welcome to Koko's!

I don't keep plants, so I can't offer any advice there, but good job looking into getting fish before becoming overstocked like many of us have!

Three or four fish in a 45 gallon would be fine! Comets and Shubunkins can be kept in aquariums, but they should have 20 gallons to themselves - where the fancy goldfish need 10. The slimline single tailed need a lot of swimming space.

I have flat marbles on the bottom of my tank, and a few clear rocks. Many go with river stones or river rocks as well. Barebottoms with the larger stones are less hassle to clean than having gravel.

With the fishless cycle, you don't need to put the fish in until the tank is ready. That can save you from having to do more frequent water changes!

I wish you a lot of luck with your aquarium and future fish! You seem to have a handle on everything! I'm sure more will chime in with a higher level of expertise than I have, but feel free to ask questions! This is a wonderful forum full of very knowledgeable people!

Debbie

I agree, three fish in a 45g would be tops for me. That way, they have more swimming and growing room. I have a 29g and I only have two fish in it. Welcome to KoKos!!!!

Some areas require a certain number of posts before you are allowed in - or allowed to post in there.
Ask lots of questions, and I'm sure you'll be there in no time!

Debbie

Hey there Tonko, welcome to Koko's! Sounds like you'll have fun with your 45gal (after your renos )

My advice would to be to add your fish one at a time with a couple of weeks inbetween each introduction. and yes up to 4 short-bodied goldfish will do nicely their whole life in your 45 gal. Bristlenoses go well with goldfish, but I'm personally a purist, I don't like anything other than goldfish in my tank, it helps if and when my goldfish get sick, I don't have to consider having to give less effective half doses of medication/salt because of catfish/snails etc, but I understand each to their own. I'm not sure what others would say, but if you were to have 4 goldfish and a bristlenose in the 45 it would be fine, but I'd limit it to one bristlenose max you're at the upper limits of your tanks capacity.

Hmmn, -if you were hoping that duckweed would remain in your tank with your goldies you will be disappointed, I actually feed my goldies duckweed, I buy bags of the stuff and throw it into my tank, it will be gone as quick as pellets or flakes! Anubias is good for goldfish as the leaves are tough the goldfish wont really be able to eat it, if you're wanting good plants that goldfish wont eat you could also add some javafern, goldfish find this unpalatable, as for fast growing plants that goldfish like to eat, you can't go past val or anarchis/elodea...

If you like shubunkins because of their colouring, and you like black moors beacuse of their eyes you could always consider getting a calico demekin (these have the same colours as a shubunkin and the same eyes as a black moor)... Single tailed/streamlined goldfish do go better in ponds, I know what you mean about wanting to live in a house and have your own back-yard! sigh...

I can never remember which forums newbies do or do not have access to, but I'm assuming that you should have access to the new members forum don't know what's going on there...

Wow, that was fast and very thorough!

Thanks everyone. I really like it here!

I'm thinking I will probably stick to three fish plus possibly a BN then--if I end up with three goldies that happen to grow larger than average, I'll be better off with the extra space for them to move in.

I'd never heard of demekins, Mads, thanks for the information

I did know that duckweed would be made into lunch, but not quite that fast maybe I'll add it to another tank for growing purposes, or just buy it as a snack from time to time. I'm glad the anubias will be okay though.

Now I'm going to lurk in tank design threads and change my mind ten million times about how I want to set mine up

what are the dimensions of the 45 gallon?? My guess is that it is one of those taller type tanks. You might do better in a 55 gallon which is longer and lower in height. The 55 gallon will provide more surface area for your fish along with more room to grow. Even in 45 gallon I would not have more then two adult size fish fancy goldfish. (3-5 inches in lenght) Remember when dealing with goldfish you have to into account the mass of the fish as well as the length. A 4 inch Ryukin is a long as is deep in body. Do not subscribe to the ten gallon rule per fish. Goldfish have a much higher bioload then tropicals or salt water fish

If you want a goldfish that loves attention and gets real happy to see you when you come home from work, get an Oranda. Mine is like a big bubbly water puppy. He wiggles and bounces, he likes to kiss my wrist when I do water changes and even allows me to handle him occasionally. Moors are great companions too, I wouldn't know about any other goldfish, moors and Orandas are all I've ever had.

Stay away from hollow ornaments, I've recently learned that they can harbor stagnant water and hide waste. When my tank gets cycled, I plan on removing some of my gravel too. I'd like to go almost all barebottom, use gravel only in the pots the plants are in. There are some great pics of members tanks in the tank pic section, I've been searching for decor ideas all afternoon.

Welcome to koko's, this is the best place for new goldfish keepers!

Spider man:

I don't have a tank now so I don't have any dimensions to give you. If I can squeeze a 55-gallon into the space available, I definitely will, though.

I know the rule for goldies, or at least, what I've read has said it's 20g for the first fish, then 10g more per additional fancy, and 20g more per additional common/etc. Seems to be what most people do at least.

luvbender:

I am really leaning hard towards Orandas, I was totally enamoured of one at a pet store I visited recently. He was a big (really big, five inches long or so) chubby guy, a lot like you describe, a bouncy pup. He was calico and really gorgeous. I put my fingers on the glass to say hi, and he came right over to say hi back! Truly, an ambassador for his particular breed.

Thanks for the advice about hollow ornaments--it makes a lot of sense. I thought about bare-bottomed, but for me it's just a bit too... bare, I guess, (har har), so I want to do river stones (not gravel, I'm paranoid about my pets swallowing anything since I had a frog die from doing just that), and maybe some potted plants.

Here's a pic of my tank before I removed the ornament.

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb202/t...er/100_0728.jpg

I was thinking of pulling out some of my old martini glasses for decor, once the gravel comes out. I think the different styles and sizes would make a great contrast.

I've seen people use glasses before! A lot of bettas make nice caves out of shot glasses, and glass is often just plain pretty. I'm really fond of chunky quartz rock too, though that's generally full of sharp edges, so I'll have to keep that to my tropical tanks where the residents are less liable to bump into things

I just wanted to say that I have 4 large goldies in a 45g. rubbermaid right now (that will be transferring over to the 125g. eventually), and I have to do 50-75% WC's every 3 days to keep nitrates below 40ppm. Nitrates are a huge problem in some people's tanks, especially when you have large fish competing for room.

If I had 3 fish in this tank, my WC's might last 4-5 days instead.

It's all in the work you're willing to put into your tanks.

Yes, our goldfish friends are cumbersome! That's what makes them soooo charming though!

That often eh? Well, I don't actually have the tank yet anyway, so it's not set in stone that I'll be using a 45g--someone elsewhere mentioned that 45g tanks are also often taller rather than long, and that a 55g would be a better idea. I don't offhand know the measurements of the space I have available to stick the tank (at work now, can't check), but I'll be getting the biggest one I can. Since that tank will be the only tank, if I am restricted to 45g I might keep it to three, but it's good to know that I could manage four if I just kept up the water changes.

Man, I wish I had space for a 125g. But we're on the third level of a condo building, so I'm not going to put that much weight on the floor, and also if an 125g burst, that'd be a LOT of water.

Once you get up to something like 125g, you're probably not looking at manual water changes anymore - unless you use a python pump maybe. A co-worker of mine has 125 g (tropicals, I think) - as well as other tanks - and on his biggest tank(s?) he has a setup where it constantly rips fresh water in from the pipes and extra water drips out. A small constant water change.

Oh, now that is just awesome. I'm no plumber though, I'm not sure I'd dare to try that, however I do know a guy who is a constrction contractor so I bet he could help.

In like ten years when I NEED that help. Man, I want to do that right this second!! ::grabby hands::

But yeah, pythons sounds like really useful things. The place where I want to place my future tank is actually not that far from the kitchen sink, so I might get one then.

The only concern I'd have with a python is making sure I knew what to do about the fact that the water you're adding in chlorinated. Is adding a full dose of conditioner sufficient before you start it? Should you drip it in along with the new water? I'd probably want to overdose a bit to be very sure I got in right in a situation like that.

Well, the bottle of dechlorinator I have tells me how much per gallon to put in, so I'd try to do a rough calculation of how many gallons I was removing by the drop in water level when siphoning out and measure out the right amount of conditioner beforehand. Then as I'm refilling, I'd add the conditioner, a splash every few seconds or so. I too would probably want to OD a bit just be safe.

I use Prime and the thing about it is that it loses its effectivness (sp?) after 24 hrs. Therefore, as long as I wait 24 hrs between wcs, then I know I can redose then. What I do is add the Prime to the tank right before I add my new water in my python. I usually double the dose. I have been doing this since I got my tank and it has worked fine for me.