Hi All,

I've been gone for quite a while from Koko's, hope everyone had nice Holidays and all is well.

Now for you help, I have a (i think about a ) 400-500 gal pond outside in So California. The 12 fish in it are hibernating
since it is cold.

They other day it was warm and sunny so we got to see some of them and I noticed Pumkin looks funny. One eye seems to be larger than the other, and it looks like something is chewing away near his mouth.

Then I got a good look at Tangerine and I clearly see what looks to be a piece of cotton hanging from his mouth.
Isn't that a fungus?

Most of the others are hiding for hibernation so it's hard to check them all out. Do I treat the whole pond? What do I use? I do not have a place to take the two of them out of the pond. The water testing comes out good.

Thanks for your help.

here are a few more pics to go with the other question. see the cotton fuzz? what do I do?

sorry to hear that ur fish r sick, how many of them r sick? I dont know if u should treat the whole pond or not, I guess thats ur only option if u dont have a qt for them, maybe try pm'ing a mod they'll b able to help u

Nice to see you back here, Bluiis!

How cold are we talking about here? The lowest temps at night. Are the filters all shut off, or are they running? Do you still feed your fish every now and then? Is the fuzz somewhat stringy? What is the pH reading?
Its a bit tricky to treat a pond that is hibernating at the moment, especially with beneficial bacteria not in full power. Those things hibernate during the winter as well, so to speak. Thats why temperature is so important - the colder it is, the more the bacteria is effected. You don't want to destroy whatever little is working at the moment with some medicine. Plus the fact that hibernating fish don't have their immune system fully working either.

So lets see about the few questions I have, and we'll go from there. Oh, btw, I combined both of your threads...

If you have TWELVE koi in a 500 gallon pond, you are WAYYYY overstocked. Ulcers and problems like you describe are an ongoing problem in overstocked koi ponds.

With that being said, what are the sizes of the koi in your pond? What have the temperatures been? Is your filter running or not? Have you been feeding the fish during this cold spell??? When was the last time a water change was done on the pond?

sorry I haven't answered, having computer problems.

The whole pond was cleaned July 07, which I now found was not good to do because it took all the good stuff out too.

Yes we know we are over stocked but there was no way around that.

Since my last post we have lost 3 fish. Tangerine died i think from shock when we attempted to seperate him.

Hubbie found our pumpkin floating just after my post.

Belitta became very ill and didn't make it.

We first treated the whole pond with Melafix and salted.

We brought water and scale samples a week later to the Koi man and have just finished our third treatment for Flukes. In addition to doing water changes.

Balboa is the only one with the ulcer and it looks like it is starting to heal. We put iodine on it.

We have just started to feed twice a week now that the weather is getting warmer. The fish are getting very active and are acting normal. I hope the Fluke treatment is the answer.

My only goldfish has now developed SBD. I read some old info about it here and saw it might be because of the Flukes.

QUESTION
Is there something I should do for her SBD?

The old post I read said it might go away on it's own after the Flukes are dead.

This has been a horrible experiance but a learning one. I can't help but think about the cycle of life. Last summer I felt so lucky to find 3 babbies in the pond. I tanked them to grow and added them to the pond just befor winter. Now I lost 3 of my older fish.

Thanks for your help

All water parameters needed to be given, but it sounds like you are getting some help.

What was used to treat flukes? There is one treatment that cannot be used with goldies present in the pond.

Does this pond have rocks on the bottom? bottom drain? I guess the question maybe really should be what IS your filtration? Cleaning a pond out never removes the "good stuff" if it is properly filtered. Any cleaning would I assume remove any junk off the bottom of the pond which it shouldn't have anyway.

"Yes we know we are over stocked but there was no way around that."
Sadly the fish will not ever give much of a choice when overstocked..as they will die or you need to re-home some. At this point I would really suggest all of them or get out your shovel and start digging. A 500 gallon pond would be great for goldies, even 12 of them, but it is a death trap for Koi as they just grow to big to fast.

If you can state your filtration we might be able to give you some assistance in building up your filtration..but if you don't cut back the fish will do it for you.. Rather they be alive and in someone elses bigger pond than fertilizer in the garden, Don't mean to sound harsh..but if it does it's because the lives of your fish are at stake.

sorry i don not have the exact parameters to give you, but when I brought the water in the said it was perfect.

We treated the fluke with Fluke-Tabs by AP pond.

yes the pond has large rocks on the bottom our filteration is an eco system with an auto fill.

when the pond was cleaned the fish were removed and the air blasted all the pond. It looked brand new, which is why I feel all the good stuff was removed.

we rescued some of the fish, but will not buy any. I hope to have a freind build a pond soon so they can take a few,

thanks for your help all is needed.

Do you do regular water changes in the summer time? How often do you clean your filters? Both should be done on a weekly basis. Used de-chlor if you have city water and check with them for chloramines as the de-chlor you use will depend on if there is or isn't.

I know you have probably been told that those rocks in the bottom are part of your filtration, but those rocks in the bottom harbor all kinds of junk and could easily have been a big part of the problem. Better to have a clean bottom pond (preferably with a bottom drain to get ALL the crud out of the pond) and build walls of rock along the edges to give the look of rock in the pond, but not where it's gonna trap the crap. If you keep the rocks they should be cleaned at least twice a year in spring and especially in fall right before going into winter. Many will keep up water changes during the winter as well.

You need to get your own test kits at least for ammonia, nitrites, PH and KH. Good to add nitrate kit too, but the first are essential. The water parameters should be checked in general on a weekly basis and even with the fish load you have now, possibly bi-weekly. The kits aren't that expensive and are easy enough to use if you can follow directions. What a lfs may call :normal" parameters may be indicators of a problem they have no clue of. They have no clue because the don't know any better. If you have a PH of 7.0 and a low KH, both can be considered normal, but may be the beginning of a PH crash, where the ph drops VERY low and kills fish.

Your filtration is not really adequate for the fish load you still have. If you would like some help with that, post exactly how your filtration works, from how it gets out of the pond, the filter(s) it goes through and how it gets back in. There are some simple DIY filters that may be easy to add on that will help your fish try and survive the pond.

I won't interrupt the good advice you are getting on pond maintanence and care as I don't know the first thing about it but I will say Bluis that your fish are suffering from columnaris, a bacterial infection and in this case I dont think parasites are first up for treatment.

The fish wih bacterial problems (the white stringy stuff, the chewing mouth, the fish in the pic and the fish with the one popped eye=bacterial disease) these fish need to be treated in a tank inside where you can keep a close watch on them. Looks like they need some perfect, bacteria free water and a course of medicated food for starters.

Good to see you back around and I'm sorry its under worrying circumstances!!!

Good call Trinket. I don't think medicated food will work well on the koi. For some reason it usually doesn't. Better than not trying anything. Most people don't have glass tanks big enough to hold a koi. Needed is a minimum 100 gallon stock tank that can be set up somewhere where it can be protected and heated. 300 watt aquarium heater would do a 100 gallon tank that was inside. Wrap with foil bubble insulation helps too.

Look up the American Koi Club of American online, find their list of KHA (Koi Health Advisor) graduates and find one close to you and call them. See if one is willing to come out and help. They are volunteers so no charge except for paying for any medications you may need for these guys.

If they have bacterial infections watch for pineconing/dropsy in the fish.

thanks everyone for all the great advise. your right frloplady, I do not have tanks that I could put the Koi in. I have to treat them in the pond.

Do any of you have suggestions about the SBD?

so sorry the pond is 1500 gal. does that mean we are still over stocked?

Yes koi need 1000 gallons each yes a thousand.

Bluiis, the goldfish with the SBD, is that a fancy goldfish, or a single tailed? Is he in the pond as well with the koi, or does he have its own housing somewhere?

Usually with SBD, I would suggest to fast the fish for a few days, which of course is a)nearly impossible in a pond with algae coverings all over the place, or b) maybe useless, since a lot of fish fast during the winter anyway, and don't have much in their stomachs to begin with.

Andrea, she is my Telescope, thats her in the pic to the left. Even tho we do not have alot of algea in the pond she is always eating and my what big poops she has. We have only been feeding once every 7-10 days because of the winter. The weather is warming up now so we have doubled that.

yes she is in the pond. I had a 10 gal tank for her when the turtle ate off her tail but broke it down after she recovered.

Yeah, I figured it was your telescope. What kind of food are you feeding the fish? Floating or sinking? Does she eat the koi food also, or is she having goldfish food?

That is one problem with fancy goldfish in with koi - they gobble up the koi food (of course ), and it isn't all that good for them. It just isn't formulated for a fancy goldfish with its rounder body shape and the more cramped intestines. My hubby feeds my goldfish his koi food every now and then, and I have to remind him not to do it all that often. My wakin and shubies are fine, but I'd rather not have him feed my orandas and ryukin with it. Its not a bad food, I am sure - its just not meant for the body shape of the fancy goldfish.

Of course, its also almost impossible to fast a fish in a pond - if you don't feed her, she just turns around and eats the growing algae instead. I bet she is laughing in you face too... "HA! Tricked him!"

i set back up my little tank & my goldfish is on a fast. I ftried for 2 days and then fed her peas. All went well so the next day I gave her a little medi-gold and she started the floats after a few hours so she is back on a fast Thought I would try for 3 days this time- think that's enough, she is hungry.

uh..not quite. A rule many follow is a minimum of 1000 gallons for koi at all. Very few koi keepers have their stocking at 1000 gallons per fish. Some are at 500 gallons/fish, more are closer to 250/fish. Some are less than that but that is what many say the minimum is. SO a 1500 gallon pond could have 6 koi with excellent filtration and regular water changes. Water turn over in a smaller pond should be 1.5 - 2x's hour. There is lots of DIY filters that can be added to your pond system that work and are not expensive to do and will give much healthier fish.

Get the pond bottom cleaned out asap.

thanks will start working on it.