I am currently cycling a 30 gallon tank for tropical fish. It is about three days in, and the pH is off the scale at over 8.4 somewhere, and the fish I want to get have an average pH tolerance of 7.2. Is there any way beside commercial treatments to lower the pH? I know that books say that the pH shoudl even out in about three days, but mine has not. My total hardness went from first day very hard to third day very soft. Same question there too: can I alter any of these conditions manually?

And also, to complete the Nit. Cycle, do I have to introduce hardy fish into the tank to produce ammonia in a couple days? Because I have no idea what to do with a few common goldfish, etc. when the tropicals come.

Which fish do you want to get? Many tropical fish can adapt to a high pH.

You definitely need a source of ammonia to start your cycle. Some tropical fish are even better than goldfish for cycling a tank. If the fish you want aren't very territorial, you could just add them slowly, 1 fish at a time even. If they're schooling fish, add a few at a time, so they don't get stressed out.

I guess I can't really tell you much more unless I know what kind of fish you're getting.

I really like Characins, I am gettimg some Neon Tetras, Phantom Tetras, and some Zebra Barbs, and a kind of loach. That is another problem. I can't decide on a loach.

And another problem, I was wondering if the cycle would still work if I have a Bio-Wheel on my filter (Penguin 170). It zaps Ammonia and Nitrite, and those are supposed to climb to start the cycle.

Can you also give me some compatible suggestions to those fish? I nned help with that.

Bio-wheels do nothing to ammonia and nitrite. The bio-wheel provides a wet, well aerated space for good bacteria to grow, which is exactly what the cycle is all about!

Most tetras might have a hard time in that high of a pH... I know people who do it, but you'd have to keep all the other conditions perfect, so I wouldn't recommend cycling it with them. I don't know anything about zebra barbs, but my cherry barbs are fine in 8.2 pH water.

I forgot to ask, what is the pH of your tap water? KH?

I hope someone else will come along with more experience with the fish you mentioned.

The pH of my tap water is 7.6.

And the Hardness won't go down.

Something has come up.

I have dumped some fish ideas and got some more ideas: tell me if they will work.

In the next few days I might go to a store and get some pH minus stuff. I am thinking of getting:

Butterfly Cichlid x2
Cherry Barb x3
Neon Tetra x8
Dwarf Loaches x4

So, how do those sound? I saw the Butterfly Cichlid and instantly wanted him, but I needed to dump the very active Zebra Danios.