So, I first noticed that my ryukin had ich only on her tail and was missing a scale. I treated with Mardel Maracide and it went away almost completely by the next day. I also added 1 tablespoon of salt per 5 gallons, however I normally do this. The area with the missing scale healed up fine. Though, now she has bloody streaks throughout her tail and tiny red wounds(burns, ulcers?) near the base of her tail. She is fairly active, though occasionally I'll look over and she'll be resting in the leaves of her amazon sword plant. I've been doing water changes frequently, too, always replacing the salt I took out.

I don't know the amonia levels, but.

Nitrate: Read under 20 ppm, it was somewhere above 0 though.
Nitrite: Read at 0
Ph: 6.8
My tank is 20 gallons and has been running for a little over 5 months
I change the filter in one of the power filters every 3 to 4 weeks.
I do water changes of 15% every day but lately I've been doing 25% and about two days ago I syphoned the substrate and did a 50% water change.

My fish has ich, ulcers, and bloody streaks. She still gets just as excited when she sees me and is normally active, however she hangs out in her amazon sword more than usually now.

I feed my fish sinking goldfish pellets which are soaked for around 2 minutes before, peas every few days, pieces of orange, and kale.

hi Earth Mother.
Is it possible your cycle has crashed and you have ammonia back? That would explain a lot here. The Maracide (Malachite Green) that you used recently is a very strong drug and apt to kill off the beneficial cycle bacs along with the parasites. I strongly recommend you get an ammonia testing kit soon as you can. Meanwhile the daily water changes are good.

When you are sure you have the ammonia reading at zero, you could try salting to 0.3% which would be double your usual dose and then wait 12 hours and add another same dose, to help with bacterial secondary infections caused by the ich parasites and the caustic effects of those meds. You should also keep an eye on your pH- it could be higher and that too may be an indication that your cycle is not quite where it should be.

Keep an eye on where you are with salting, its a good idea to keep a salt journal so you know how much has gone in and how much has been taken out (via water cahnges).

Thank you so much! :]
I woke up to notice that her fins are a bit frayed. I'm doing a water change now.
I have a bacteria supplement by Top Fin, but I don't want to over-medicate her tank.
It's been around 2 weeks since I changed her filter, should I leave it in, or do another change now?

As a side note, I'm not sure if I should treat her for a bacterial infection. Her condition seems to be deteriorating. I just did a 50% water change, and she is moving around a bit more... However she's spending more time bottom sitting. =/

I have packets of Maracyn-Two but I'm apprehensive about overmedicating. I'm just really worried about her. -sigh-

I will be picking up an amonia test later today, and I have water prepared for another water change later today.

Hello Earth!Mother and welcome!

Sorry to hear that your ryukin is ill. They are such beautiful fish. I have a question for you that maybe Trinket can answer. I noticed that you said you change one of the filters in your power filter every 3-4 weeks. If I've understood what I've learned here correctly, changing filters can throw your cycle out of whack, as it gets rid of the beneficial bacteria that the water needs to cycle. I have had 2 filters running in my 30 gallon for 3 months and have never changed them. I just rinse them out with the old tank water before I throw it out during a water change. They look kind of crappy, but thats actually a good thing.

A mod or helper will correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems that changing filters so often could cause a cycle disruption.

Good luck!

Updates: My fish seems to be doing worse. Now there are more pin-prick red "wounds?" on her abdomen, closer to her tail. Her tail is more red, and the ich is still present. I fed peas and she took them quickly, doing as she always does before feeding time, swimming to the top and showing off at the front until I drop them in. She seems to yawn more though. No gasping for air at the top.

Ammonia read at 0
Nitrates were somewhere over 0 but under 20
Nitrite was at 0
Chlorine 0
Kh - 40 (that needs to improve quite a bit)
Ph - 7.2

Should I treat for a bacterial infection? I'm out of ideas of what to do, and she means so much to me. =/
I can't help but feel like I'm not helping her enough.

Hi earthmother,
I'm sure Trinket will be on here tonight to check on you. Her time is upside down from ours, so its usually evenings when she's on here. If your ammonia readings are 0, then you should follow her advice on the salt. There is a thread on here about salt measurements, etc, but I'm sure she can walk you through it. My goldies have yet to have ich, but I have had tropical fish infected with them, and it seems that salt is the best cure. Trinket or another mod or helper can help you with the dosages and how to salt your water safely.

There is one thing that I have learned here about ich, and that is it is almost always present in tanks, but only shows up when the fish's immunity is down or the fish are stressed. I THINK thats correct, and as I said before, a mod or helper will correct me if I'm wrong about that. I'm still learning myself, and there's a lot to take in, lol!

Hang in there, and I'm sure help will be here soon!

Thank you so much. :]
<3

As for the filter advice, I've realized that you are right, it does not make too much sense for me to throw out the good bacteria in the filter.
I'm so new to this, but I think I've become obsessed.

As for the salt, I'll be sure to double the dose tonight.

Vickie has given you great advice! Throwing the filter is not a good idea and this will be one of the main reasons the fish are getting sick. Please just rinse off the gunk on filter media, never replace them. You are not a bad owner at all, you came here to find help and that was the best thing to do. All the info is here on how to care for your fish.


Here is a link to salting that you should read and try to raise the salt in your tank slowly with 12 hour intervals from 0.1% as it is now to 0.3 % and leave it at 0.3% for 10 days to kill the ich parasites. These are making the red spots and the white spots. Salt at this level plus daily gravel vacs and water changes REPLACING EXACT amount of salt in the fresh treated water will kill the ich and its eggs that are hatching out in the gravel and around the tank. This is a parasite and it needs to be dealt with before any meds are added, ich is killed easily in salt and it does not hurt and infact heals fish so I suggest it a sthe best medication for ich. There are other ich meds but in an uncycled tank it is not wise to try those.

Remember-treat the ich first urgently and the sores will most likely clear on their own.

This morning after doing a 25% water change I added two tablespoons of salt. I'm hoping this helps. She's rumaging around her tank for food, however I catch her in a trance more often than not. She has more pin-prick red dots, and her poop is clear/whitish and stringy. I fed her peas this morning and she took them with great enthusiasm, its just that they're not coming out as a normal color or form.



The ich is still present, and now there is some on her body. Thank you so much for the advice and time. It is all greatly appreciated.

With ich, you have to keep the salt at 3x however many gallons your tank is/teaspoons. In a 20 gallon tank therefore you need 60 level teaspoons or 20 tablespoons to get the right amount to kill the ich. And that has to be left in the water for 3 days after the very last ich spot is seen and/or 2 weeks. Its hard work. You will need to test and monitor params daily for ammonia and nitrite will weaken the fish farther and make the ich worse. You need to gravel vac daily to remove all the ich microorganisms/eggs. You can raise the tank temp slowly to 80 for a faster ich cycle and speediest recovery.

Seeing ich in a tank means your fish has a weakened immunity and you need to feed him up now with vitamin C type foods and fresh quality pellet food or shrimp/krill etc, keeping a watch always on your water.

Okay. Sooooo! I have salted the tank, and the ich is gone. :]
I've been giving her 25% water changes, and syphoning out the gravel bed.
I recently acquired a 40 gallon tank and reallllllly want to put her in there, however she still has a few problems (which I worry may be fatal)


She is not bloated, however she sits at the bottom of the tank and lies over until I walk into the room and she can see me. When she does, she gets up, swims around her tank, then to the top and waits for me to drop in some food or feed her orange. She is eating a normal amount. The red streaks are still present, though the ones on her abdomen seem to be clearing up very slowly. She also has fin rot.

At this point I am very worried she has damage done to her swim bladder. :/

Thank you so much for the help and your help is greatly appreciated!

Hi! I just want to add that you must keep checking that ammonia.

It creeps up daily and 25% water changes will not be enough here if your cycle has had a crash.

With ich and salting, I find its easiest to do a 50% water change daily for the allocated period which is salt at 0.3% for one week after you see the last spots. So with a 50% water change in a 20 gallon tank you would need to replace 30 teaspoons (half the total salt) with the new water, dissolved first and poured into a well aerated area of the tank. Thats every day for 6 days after the last spot is seen.

You must keep the level at 3 teaspoons per gallon of tank water for the ich to be killed. After the adult parasite forms drop off the fish they reproduce in the gravel and around the tank. These encysted forms take some time to hatch out and when they do the cycle is repeated with the parasites re-attching to the fish...This is why treatmemt with salt must be continued for at least 6 days AFTER you can see the last spot.

This 0.3% level of salt will also help any secondary bacterial infections, parasitic puncture wounds and stress related finrot heal up. I shouldn't add anymore meds until the salt/ich treatment is complete.

Always make sure your water changes are matched for temperature (your little finger will do) and pH. A slowly raised higher temp nearer 80 will speed up the life cycle of the ich.

I'd like to thank you for all of the advice, first of all.
Second, this morning I did a water change of around 75% (I got a little carried away with syphoning out the collected junk in the bottom. >_>)
Though I added the salt back into the aquarium and she is doing MUCH better these last two days! I'm so glad she is getting better.
There is still no ich, she is no longer bottom sitting on the side, rather swimming around and following me back and forth as I walk by her tank, begging for food. :] <- she is definitely getting back to her normal self, and I can't wait for her to be put into the 40 gallon.

Also, can snails contract these sicknesses as well? My mystery snail has been acting normally, though he is in a quarantine and I'm not sure he or she would appreciate an addition of salt to his/her tank.

Oh and as for water params, they've all stayed the same. I had to go out and make an emergency pit stop at nnnn yesterday for more test strips.

It is so surprising how expensive these little fish and aquariums get, once you know exactly how much they need. It sickens me to think of the number of fish that I have subjected to painful deaths out of sheer ignorance. >_<!

I got a PH Up product too. I figured my water might be too acidic for her. However, it's still at our around 7 and I don't want to be messing with the PH so much that it stresses her out more.

Thanks again!

Hey Trinket, sorry to keep bothering you with this, I thought she'd be healing up nicely by now. Athena now has black "smudges" on her fins where the fin rot was and as well as on her abdomen where a scale was missing. I'm not sure what this means, though today after a water change I had an ammonia spike, it went up to .02, so I changed the water again and brought it back down to 0. The nitrites seemed a bit high as well at .5, so I brought them back down to between .5 and 0. Everything else checked out as usual. I've been doing these changes frequently, and she is not gasping at the top for air as she normally would when the water params go awry. She is healing, the red streaks are almost completely gone, her fin rot has stopped, and no ich (thank god). I thought about doing a salt dip, however I've tried this before and she always sits at the bottom of her tank right afterwards as if she is in shock, so I'm thinking of that as a last resort.

Thanks again!

You're not bothering that's what we are here for, trying to help.

If you have had any tweaks at all of ammonia however slight in a medicated/salted tank, ammonia burns can appear like this. Its a harmless pigment reaction. I wouldn't salt dip her as it can be stressful and isn't necessary if you can see she is healing. Your priority should be monitoring/testing the QT water daily, twice daily really to jump on any water problems as soon as they appear. It's almost always the case that if the fishes behavior does not get worse during salting and symptoms appear to regress that it is going to work. Try to be patient and trust that you are doing the very best thing for her.

Just a quick note on test strips. They are not as accurate as the drop kits. They'll give you a vague readng but it can be off as well.
Just to be safe I'd keep doing the water changes daily, adding back the correct amount of salt to make up the final 0.3% result, and try and get some drop tests (Tetra is a good one) when you can.

Ah, yes, these test strips are hard to read when they are between colors. On Sunday I'll be making a stop at a local store for more plants, so I'll pick up a master test (drop) kit there. That should be much more helpful in this. :]

I'm glad to hear that these new smudges are nothing to worry too much about. I have about 60 gallons of water sitting in my room right now in two huge rubbermaid tubs, prepared for as many changes as needed to keep this water clean. My mother was complaining about my use of the hose and how our water bill is going to be high this week. I told her that perhaps we should all cut down on the showers, after all, my fish have to -LIVE- in their water.

I'm so happy that Athena is finally getting better and the new pearlscale is not showing any signs of sickness so far. I'll have them separated for a good two weeks before they're together... but she has been alone so long, I'm sure they'll appreciate a large tank and each others company. They both seem to be pea-hogs, we'll see how this works out.

Good luck Kelly. You are doing good .

I've seen that black appear overnight on my white fish once when I wa sdosing at 0.3% salt. It disappeared as soon as I brought the salt back down. It can also happen with any medication as well as the classic ammonia related.

Tell your Mom its not much longer,promise a shorter shower and you'll help with house chores to make up or something

Hi Trinket, I thought I'd give you an update on her condition. :]

The tank waters are perfect again, no rise in ammonia; I'm averaging a 40% to 50% water change a day. The black on her has not gone away, though I read that it may take a week or so to go away, perhaps longer. I also read that it is a lot like a scab? Anyways, I went to the petstore and they did not have any master test kits in stock, so I am going again today to check back. (And because I could not leave without buying anything, I bought two gold mystery snails for the 40 gallon >_>)

Thanks for saving my lovely fish! I enjoy her more and more each day.

O___O

My eyes are about to bulge out of my head! My poor little pearlscale has ich! I removed all snails from the tank and rose the salt to .3% in the 40 gallon! I think I'm about to pass out. He and Athena have been separated by 20 feet of carpet! I'm thinking it could have been an infected net? I'm not entirely sure. UGH. I feel so bad for him. I'm thinking his bottom sitting is not due to the new addition/stress of the new bubble wall (I even turned down the setting so the bubbles are very slight), but to this ich? He will not eat either, he had a hardy appetite before, but now won't even touch his peas.

Any advice/thoughts?

Thank you so much, Trinket. >_<! I am almost in disbelief.

It's just so easy to pass ich form one tank to another. Even with care, it happens. You will have to treat both tanks. When you are all done and the fish recover you'll then need to disinfect all the syphons and buckets that you use with a solution of bleach. You can read how in the water forum.

I'm sorry your pearlscale is now sick. The stress may be from the parasites on him and he should regain his appetite when the salt gets to work. It does work and it works fast and well if you can mantain the correct dose -adding back the correct amount with your w/cs that are taking care of any water issues.

Be careful using a net. They can scratch and traumatise fish. I threw away all my nets many years ago after a small fish got stuck in the corner of one and nearly suffocated A fish feels safer and less stressed being transferred in a large plastic cup pr small plastic bowl where water is all around him, however small an amount.

Bubbles/aeration are very important with salting and with ich too so I wouldn't do away with the bubble wand. His appetite should return as soon as the parasites have fallen off in afew days. Perhaps try and tempt him daily with food but remove it if he desn't want it and try again another time.

How is Athena doing now?

I'll throw out the nets, then! I'd rather not stress them out even more, ah. :]

I'll also label who's siphons, cups, and other stuff is who's until they are both well and healthy (and in the same tank).


Athena is wonderful, the black is no longer on her abdomen, now just on her fins. She is currently chowing down on some orange and being pretty enthusiastic with her ripping!

Little guy is still not eating, I'm afraid he will starve. What should I feed/how should I? I'm afraid he'll starve to death or the lack of nutrients will hurt him even more. I have also not seen any poop and he is breathing heavily. D:

The ich is slowly going away...

Water params are good on this tank. It is cycling and I'm adding lots of plants, but I'm keeping the ammonia levels at 0. Does this compromise the cycling? I'd rather have him safe and healthy, though. <3

Never mind the cycle when you have a sick fish. New treated( salted )water changes daily are your priority.

Try and offer some different foods. Skinned pea, shrimp piece, new pellet food, really offer a variety, something may work and anything is better than nothing.

Fish can last a week without eating so don't panic just yet - keep at it

Hope you disinfected those plants/removed any tiny snails. I'm glad to hear Athena is doing well .

Yes the plants were disinfected, I did not check for snails but I did give the plants a once over and know I would have noticed (unless they were microscopic or eggs)

The little one is now listing to the side, still won't eat. I attempted to feed him some peas, his regular food, and orange. =/ He won't even acknowledge that they are in the tank let alone right in front of him. The ich is gone, I'm doing 40% water changes, and water params are nice. I feel so sorry for him, he's just so-so-so tiny.

Oh dear, the ich has affected him badly. Poor little poppet. When did he last eat? I wish we could get some medicated food into him now. Do you think you could get him to eat some medicated food?
I'm just wondering if those pin prick red spots which can be caused by ich have not been the gateway for some bacteria to enter inside. Can you see any more red spots? How are his fins? Can you describe how his body looks now? I don't like to medicate the water with a fish very weak like this but medicated food would be a good idea if you could get him to eat. The idea being that perfect water on the outside heals him outside>in and the med food heals him inside>out.

How many days since the last ich spot was seen?

There are no red spots on him, just the white spots from ich. Something is different here from what it was with Athena, he has no red streaks like she did. I do have antibacterial food, jungle labs.

Antibac. food

I'll force feed it to him if need be. >_>

I will also be going to the store later today, so if anything is needed I can pick it up then.

He last ate Dec. 31st. His body looks as it did when I bought him, fat. No more fat, no less. There is no dropsying(knock on wood!!) The ich has been gone since the 2nd, but the last spot seen was on the 1st. The salinity levels are still the same. His fins look fine, no fin rot.

I see. I was confused about the symptoms. Athena had the red spots and she seems much better now. So your little pearl has really just been carrying the parasites. They are external so the salt should have helped. That salt needs to stay in till the 6th or 7th of Jan then.

But dont go over 0.3% with so tiny a fish. If you are doing 50% water changes and replacing 1.5% salt each time its going to be alot of salt and a lot of careful measuring. If you see her choking at the surface you should maybe transfer her to a rubbermaid with matched temp and pH , treated water salted to 1.5%- half the dose in the 40. Then reduce that the next day. The 40 will have to be still salted till the 7th. Are there any other fish in that tank?

Meanwhile try and make sure everything (water params, air etc) is spot on for him so he's comfortable. I don't think honestly that you should feed antibac food now with no symptoms except ich. This is all about ich. Try instead either; some new food (it has a stronger smell when the packet is new and just opened and is therefore more appetising or some freeze dried bloodworms/krill/shrimp protein food with a strong smell. Remember, antibac and antibiotic foods will rid the healthy gut flora and antibodies that your fish needs now so better not to use them unless there is evidence of bacterial infection. This is how fish behave with ich and/or salt sensitivity.

I won't feed the antibac. However I'll attempt to find the smelliest food possible at the store today and drop it infront of him. Hopefully I'll find something he will -really- love and atleast take a nibble at.

There are no other fish in the 40 gallon. The only fish which has ever been in there is the pearlscale, and 3 mystery snails. The mystery snails were removed and placed in a rubbermaid with a few plants for them to munch on as well as an algae wafer here and there.

Thanks Trinket! You're wonderful with this. :]

Hello Trinket.
I came home at 5:30 today to find my little pearlscale had passed away during the day. His ich was completely gone, water params fine. I had bought him some brine shrimp too (which Athena is now chowing down on).

Any suggestions on where to go from here, as far as disinfecting the tank?
Thank you so much for all your help, it is greatly appreciated. <3

Oh
So sudden. You did what you could . There is no alternative but to medicate with ich. Whether with salt or OTC medication. I still feel ich medication is harder on the fish than salt, so I really believe this was all that could be done for your little guy.
little pearl

Disinfecting? Yes you should start another cycle I think. You can use some of the media from Athena's tank when you get set to speed things up a lot and meanwhile take the tank down and use bleach to disinfect. That's what I would do, there are several ways. Non soapy household bleach at 1 to 20 strength or 1 to 10 even will kill most everything and then you will need to rinse very thoroughly until you cannot smell any bleach at all. I should chuck all the filter floss and media from that tank.

Should I bleach the gravel too? I assume so. I have potassium permaganate for the plants, that is fine, right?

Should I give the filter a bleaching as well? And I'll throw out the media and get new stuff. Ahhh. XD The people at pets*mart must think I am INSANE.
I really wish I could have seen the little pearlie grow, alas. D:

Thanks for suggesting brine shrimp too. >_> I got the frozen meaty nasty cubed kind and she goes crazy! over it.

I'm so sorry that you lost your little pearlscale. It can be so hard when they go so quickly.
I hope you'll feel better soon.
So good to see that Athena is doing so well. She can be the sunshine to get you through your sadness.

Debbie

Ah, thanks. :] Athena is definitely my sunshine. I love her to death.