I didn't know debates weren't allowed. I think as long as we keep it a debate and stick to the facts, as opposed to an argument where it just becomes personal attacks, no harm should come. I think it is important to allow constructive debates. Some of the best improvements in my fishkeeping have come because of debates.

What I mean by water changes and filtration affecting stocking capacity is that if you have the filtration to keep the water clean (removes particulates and gets ammonia to nitrates), and enough water changes to keep nitrates down, stocking capacity can be increased. There is a limit to this though. Most stocking 'rules' are at best loose guidelines. I don't go by any gph guides, I go by what the filter claims it can handle. I cut it in half and do even more filtration than that. Filtration does the job if the particulates are removed, the nitrifying bacteria are doing their job, and I do my part by removing nitrates with water changes. All those 10x per hour, x many gallons per_____, etc. are all guides. They help people figure out how to get the results needed. But that doesn't mean they are the only way to get those results.

I should have addressed this before. My combination of axolotls and goldfish does go against general recommendations, but I gave it a shot and it has worked beautifully FOR ME. This won't always be the case and I am by no means suggesting such a combination. Please be assured that the goldfish have never once left a single mark on the axolotls, nor been observed doing anythinng that could harm them. What little the axolotls have done (a grab here and there that led to a torn fin once or twice), healed quickly. This combination works for me with my fish, it doesn't mean anyone should add axolotls to their goldfish tank or the other way around.

I am curious as to what you mean by the guppies, goldfish, and axolotls having different needs. Their temperature ranges overlap, they are all doing well in my untreated tap water (well water), and all of their dietary needs are being met. Please explain what you were thinking of when you said that. Thank you. I hope we can both keep this friendly and helpful so any possible benefit will be achieved.

okay i did not mean to start an argument. it is clearer to me now. what you were telling me was kinda different to what you are saying now. I am not going to harass you about keeping axolotls in with goldfish i was just saying they should not be kept together. Axolotls are carnivorous and there for can feel that the guppies and goldfish are a food source even if they are bigger than the axie. I understand what you are saying that they are just guidlines but generally the guidlines are right and should be followed.

sorry if i made you feel upset you or anything this is a great site

Glad to see you all can get a long. You guys are great and are admired members of this site.

Faust,
We are just like any other family. There are times when we disagree on things, but we are still family and eventually, all is well again! LOL!

Yes, I suppose it does happen. But as long as we all get along that is all that matters. Besides, we all share the same passions. I have tons of friends and they don't love goldfish like I do. Sometimes I feel funny talking to them about my fish, because I can tell there is no real interest. Sure they like to look at them, but that is a different story. Anyways, I like everyone here. Now I must prepare to go bowling and dominate with my skill. You all have a great and fun evening.

I know what you're talking about there. It's weird sometimes.

When adding things to setups like these sometimes you have to assume some will end up as food. In this case I was expecting the guppies to be food, but hoping they wouldn't. Turns out they should end up with a stable if not growing population in there. I started with just feeders, but have now added three fancy females. I started over on caudata.org which is really good. They said then, and still say, that it is not a good combintation, yet mine are prefectly fine. There are always exceptions and compatibility can be affected by other factors too. For example, growing them up together keeps them used to each other (whether it's goldfish and axolotls, water turtles and other water turtles or fish, or different types of fish). In addition to this, never feeding live foods also helps reduce aggression. I have observed this in all types of animals. It doesn't mean they are happy and loving to all animals, just less likely to be aggressive than if they are fed live food.

The goal of filtration is to remove the particulate matter, and allow for enough nitrifying bacteria that ammonia and nitrites are removed fast enough to not show up in any tests. If your filtration does this then you have enough, even if it doesn't fit the usual recommendations. Sometimes you need more, sometimes less. Those recommendations were developed to give less experienced people an idea of what they will need to achieve that goal of clean water.

well i guess so i just watch them carefully hopefully we can get along and be friends

Trust me, I love these animals. A few years ago I had to get rid of most my stuff. That included the axolotls I used to have. Those were the one thing I missed the most. More recently I had some fancy goldfish. One went from about 1.5" body length to about 3.5" in about three months. That was an oranda and his wen was at least as big as a golfball. I have an avatar with a pic of him, but apparently this site doesn't allow those until you have more posts. I gave them to my cousin for his ponds, but things went bad.

So when I got these guys I was glad I finally got have two of my favorite aquatic animals again. They are very important to me and the most important thing is their well-being. However, I am not one of those people who is extra super careful about their animals. To me that is like the parent who keeps their kid locked up in the house all day, afraid they might get a skinned knee. So I will take carefully thought out risks that I believe will not be a problem, not what others have found is risky. Almost all of the time I am right and they are fine. Other times I have to split them up again, leaving me where I started.

i dont think anyone is saying you dont care about them or your goldfish, We are just worried thats all. This site is a goldfish lovers site and if we see something that puts them in harm we just try to let the person know. No one is trying to pick on you or anything, just worried about the goldfish and the other guys... Peace.

But rather than discuss it the thread was closed. To me that means no one can gain anything, myself included. And since I can't private message I can't even keep a conversation going with anyone that is not in the thread. I personally understand closing thread where it simply becomes an argument, straying from the facts or filled with personal attacks. But I think a thread that is simply a debate and sticks to things that could help others is a good thing and allows both sides to grow.

Well i closed it for a good reason, it wasnt debating it was plain to me that you have your thoughts on what can be with goldfish, it was one sided.
PM's are and have always been a thing to earn here, im sorry u dont like it but its been that way for years.

Even very strong willed people can see the opposite side when good facts are given to them. So frequently what seems like two people who will not give an inch can end up with both of them displaying on the forum all the information for each side (something helpful for anyone reading it), as well as both finding that there is acceptable gray area that they did not see before. I failed to explain that I do not suggest this combination, something that should have been discussed in the thread.