Hi Everyone

Let me answer the questions above first:

[b]Test Results for the Following:
Ammonia Level? 0
Nitrite Level? 0
Nitrate level? 0 (usually 5, but did a 60% wc yesterday)
Ph Level, (If possible,KH and GH and chloramines)? 7.8
Ph Level out of the Tap? 8 <LI>Tank size (How many Gals) and How long has it been running? 10 gallons, running almost 1 year. <LI>What is the name and size of the filter/s? Top Fin 10 <LI>How often do you change the water and how much? 30% - 60% every other day, depending on water clarity.

How many fish in the tank and their size? [/b]2 Shubunkin goldfish. Smokey - around 4 inches, Dot around 6 inches.
What kind of water additives or conditioners? API Stress Coat
Any medications added to the tank? Salt at .2%
Add any new fish to the tank? No
What do you feed your fish? Omega One small goldfish pellets, peas once a week, bananas and oranges occasionally.
Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt", bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? Yes
Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, ect..? Yes


Smokey is having problems again. A few days ago, he had his dorsal fin down almost all day, but otherwise was fine. I figured I'd wait and see if anything developed, but the fin was up again later in the day so I thought all was well.

Last night he kept moving his mouth in an odd manner, and would just hover in the tank. While he was hovering, he would slowly drift down towards the bottom, then swim up and hover in the middle again.

While we were watching him, my daughter said "Is he missing part of his dorsal fin?" It looks like he lost the front part of it, because there's something there on his back. We thought that was where the fin had broken off. But I looked at older pictures, and that's what his fin looks like, but that black raised spot on his back wasn't there. His dorsal fin is shredding though, because a piece fell off of the back of it while I was watching him. My daughter took some pictures and a video.

Here is the video.. it shows the odd mouth movement.

Smokey video

I apologize for the blurriness of some of the photos.

Here it looks like part of his dorsal fin is missing. It looks like something is there.
Smokey pic 1

Here you can see a better size of the black spot on his back.
Smokey pic 2

Here's another. I hope you can make it out. Below the dorsal fin is a black marking - sort of in the shape of a V. The black spot is near the top left side of that V.
Smokey pic 3

Here you can see a few spots near the top and bottom of his anal fins.
Smokey pic 4



This morning he was at the bottom, but he moved when I'd go to the tank. He's not moving his mouth as much, but it's still moving. A few weeks ago, I had read a post by one of the mods or helpers mentioning something about a fish that looks like it's "talking" might be sick. At the time I read it, I thought "Smokey seems to do that a lot.".
He is swimming a lot in the video because he hates the camera. Before that, he was barely moving. His appetite is fine, and he's been a little bit more active since they've eaten.

I don't know what those spots are on his anal fin. They look different than the one on his back, and also different from the ones that Dot had on her tail. (Dot's spots are still healing, but look much better than they did! )

I'm afraid that the mouth thing could be the columnaris returning. It's just so odd looking, like he couldn't fix his mouth or something.

One last thing.. I don't recall ever testing my water for pH from the tap before. Is it more stressful doing big water changes when there is a difference like that in the pH? (Tank - 7.8, Tap - 8 *so you don't have to scroll back*)

That's all I can think of at the moment. If anyone has more questions, feel free to ask.
My poor Smokey…. I wish the big tank would finish cycling!!

Thank you in advance for your help and support!!

Debbie

Oh Debbie. I am so sorry. It does look like there is something bothering him in his mouth doesn't it and I would not be at all surprised if this was the columnaris returning

I do remember when he had the medicated food last time we were reluctant to use waterborn meds as you were cycling.

This time perhaps you should. Maracyn 2 is one that works very well and you should treat the whole tank and both fish in it after removing the salt as much a syou can.

I am also wondering if the chomping at the bit is a bad reaction to salt. I say this because I have one salt sensitive fish and he does the same thing It certainly seems like he is not happy with something. Check he has no gravel stuck in his mouth before getting onto meds though.

The black spots- well, honestly those look like normal shubby colring appearing to me. Your fish are babies still and the color changes so much on these calico or patterned type fish. Unless the color spots are raised you dont have to worry about them methinks.

Oh Deb! I sure hope Smokey gets better soon, Hon! Hang in there; that tank can't take too much longer to finish cycling!!! We are all here for you!!!! BIG HUGS!!!!

Gosh Debbie, I hope you don't have to wait much longer for the cycling. Poor little Smokey, he is just so cute!

I remember you saying a few times that he just doesn't seem to like the salt. I'd definitely take Trinkets advice and go for the Marycyn 2. You'll be moving them soon, and maybe you can get this cleared up before they get to their new home.

Big hugs for you and Smokey both!

oh no i sure hope little smokey is able to get better soon!! I hope so for you too, I know how hard it is when your fish are sick, so I hope that you are able to get him back to health as quickly as possible!

Thank you everyone, for your support and concern for my Smokey!

He's still the same. He'll come out for a bit, then go back to the corner on the bottom. His mouth is always moving, but not always as much as in the video. When I fed them tonight, he was doing it again after reaching for some food.

Trinks, while he was hovering last night, I could see inside his mouth while he was opening/closing it, and I didn't see any gravel in there. I would think the blue gravel would stand out inside there - and there was nothing dark.

I will get the Maracyn 2 in the morning. Does he need anti-bac food, too? Or is the Maracyn 2 enough? As far as medicating the tank, I'm sort of pleased that I only need to treat a small tank, instead of using a whole lot of it in a big tank.

The black spot I was referring on Smokey is raised. It's about 1/4 in directly in front of his dorsal fin. hmm. 6.35 mm according to google... (for metric folk ) It's not very clear in the pictures. At the time we took the pictures, we thought it was part of where his fin broke away. It sticks up off his back. It isn't huge - but it's visible.

I'm also wondering about the lines that seem to run along his sides. I had seen one before, but now they're on both sides. You can see those in the photos, too. (I forgot to mention them before) Maybe the meds would clear that up too, I was just wondering if it was something.

One plus to this, is that I will change the filter cartridge so it can absorb more of the salt, and I can put the one that's in there into the big tank. Maybe it'll give it a nice boost.

I'll keep you posted on his progress.

And Trinks - since I did my usual bouncing around of thoughts, I wanted to ask again if he also needs anti-bac food, or if the Maracyn 2 is sufficient.

Thank you all again SO very much! Hugs to all of you.

Debbie

Poor Smokey..

I definitely can't see any gravel in his mouth. I can see rather easily, since his mouth seems to be stuck open. When he first got sick back in August, it happened then, too. But it only lasted an hour or so. It's like he yawned, and his mouth won't go back to normal.

I got the Maracyn 2 this morning, but with hubby home, and today being our anniversary - he wanted to get a Christmas tree, wanted to have a bbq for lunch, so there were a bunch of things I had to do before I could work on the tank.

I did a good water change to get most of the salt out, like I was told. I took out 6 gallons, replaced it, then took out another 3, and added the Maracyn 2 when I replaced that. I also took out the old filter cartridge and put it in the new tank/filter. I didn't put a new cartridge back in, as the instructions said to remove the carbon if it was less than 6 (I think) days old. If it can go without carbon.. I'd rather feed the new tank with the old one.

I fed them their regular food. I don't know if he ate, since I was running out the door right after feeding them. He isn't "planted" on the gravel. He'll get up and swim occasionally - but then it's back to the bottom. I'm glad to see he's still moving around though. He also keeps messing with his mouth, like he's trying to close it.

I wondered if the columnaris could affect the inside of his mouth - so it "sticks" open? And maybe once the medication starts to work and it clears up, he'll be okay. He's still so little.. I don't think he's grown much since he got sick before.

Well, I'll keep you posted.

Debbie

aww, the poor little guy I really hope the maracyn works!!
You are right though, it is much easier (and cheaper) to medicate a small tank than it is a large one!!

poor smokey...i'll keep my fingers crossed that he gets better very soon

Thank you, Hon. You're so sweet.
With all the troubles you're having with your fish, and yet you check on Smokey.
You're truly a good friend. I hope you know that I wish the best for you and your fishies, too! I hope the Jungle food works quick for them!

Debbie

Poor little guy. It just seems like that darn columnaris won't go away, huh?

You're right that you don't need the carbon, as it would filter out the meds. Great idea to put it in the cycling tank! As you said, it may give it a boost!

Sigh. I guess its probably a good thing right now that Smokey is still in the smaller tank as the meds will work better and you won't have to use as much. I'm sure the Marycyn will work soon. Chin up, Debs...this will get better before you know it! Smokey is a tough little guy.

OH, I forgot to say:

HAPPY ANNIVERSARY!!!!

Debs, I think other diseases affect the mouth but columnaris type infections are one of the worst for it. When the bacteria levels are lowered that should heal up again. It did last time. I looked at that little top pimple and I think that is probably another of those little bacterial spots like Dot had but under a black pigmented area so thats why it looks black. There are really no other dangerous "black" spots of that size and type that I can find in any literature so that must be it.

The Maracyn 2 can be used alongside some foods. What can you get or what do you have? I tried to locate your last thread but cannot so let us know about that. Next time you do the Maracyn dosage, more of the salt should come out. I don't think Smokey agrees with the salt. I'll check back here later for updates, meanwhile don't worry & try and enjoy your anniversary!

Thank you, Vickie, for your continued support and friendship. I was thinking the same thing about using the smaller tank. It used 2 packets for 10 gallons on the first day, so I would have needed 10 packets if they were in the bigger tank - just for the first day! Then it's 1 packet per 10 gallons for the next four days.
He is tough. And so darn cute, too! I really need to post pictures in the "then and now" or "before and after" section (whatever it's called) I have a few pictures of them, and he's just so cute, and his coloring then was such a vibrant orange! I'll get to it one of these days.
Thank you again, Vickie! Say Hi to Moby and Florence for me!

Debbie

Thank you very much! It was rather hectic early on, but when our oldest daughter and son in law came, it was calmed down and very enjoyable. Today is their anniversary, too. My son in law is from Canada, and the INS (Immigration and Nationalization Service) requires marriage in a certain amount of time. They decided to share our's.
Thank you again for remembering!

Debbie

Thank you Trinks, for all of your help and support!! I know Smokey is in good hands with you guiding me!

I have Jungle Labs Anti-bac food that I gave him the last time, but mmm near me has the gel-tek brand - if one of those would be better. I could probably get it tomorrow, if you think it might be better. I actually have mmm, nnnn and Wal* Mart close by.

So I should do another water change tomorrow? (Maracyn 2 is added for 5 days) I had only put 16 tsps of salt in there, and when I took out the first 6 gallons - that would have removed 12 tsps (leaving 4 tsps in the tank)... then after replacing 6 gallons, I took out another 3 gallons. Would there be much salt left?

Thank you sooo much Trinks!! I'd be lost without your help!!

Debs

Not much salt left now then, I just meant don't add more, its too complex dosing with the meds and not needed with the Maracyn anyway.

As a little more powerful than the Jungle he had before- the tetracycline Geltek would be my choice here for a med food for Smokey. It is also bacteriostatic so it could be used with the Maracyn but if he starts to improve with the Maracyn you really do not need 2 lines of attack. I know its hard when our fish are sick, to ever imagine that they will heal up, but the truth is- as long as you are in control of your water and have learnt the basics of fish care, fish do heal remarkably well. They are always having ups and downs but they are programmed to survive So throwing too many meds at a time is not always necessary -or a good idea.

What I would be inclined to do is wait till the 5 days is up with the Maracyn. It is also antibiotic remember and very effective for external columnaris type infections and somwhat effective for mild internal cases too. Then, after the 5 days, if he is still bad try the Geltek antibiotic food (perhaps and hopefully by then in his new home

Meanwhile, keep going with the garlic soaking of food sometimes -that you do- and offer him a large variety of foods especially vitamin C type foods to help him recover from this.

Is he still "chomping"?
edit I forgot to remind you: Maracyn 2 is affected by light- you will need to turn off the overhead light and keep lights dim for it to be effective.

When I went to bed last night, his mouth was still open - but not quite as much. I haven't seen it this morning. It's too dark to make out how it looks now. Dot was "sleeping", so I didn't want to turn on a light and disturb them. I could only see him move a bit - but he didn't come near the glass.
Thank you for the tip on the light. I did have it on last night - but won't use it again until the meds are finished. And I'll wait on the med food until after, also.

I have a question on the meds. Is there a "best way" to add it to the tank? The directions just say to add it to the tank. When I added it yesterday, I had dissolved it in some tank water first, then added it. It didn't mix easily, so I assume adding it directly to the tank (in powder form) is a bad idea?
I also hope having the light on last night didn't do too much damage to the meds effectiveness.

I'll go peek and see if the fish are awake... Jeez Dot is so frisky this morning! They're awake! The way Dot swims around this tank sometimes, I wonder if even 55 gallons will be enough for her!

Smokey's mouth is closed more this morning than last night. He's either still "chomping", or he's trying to get it to close. The mouth movements seems to coincide with his gill movements. Is that normal?

One thing I noticed today though, is that streak that he has going down his right side looked raised. I don't know if it was the lighting, or if it really was. He doesn't seem to like to be looked at, because the more I try to look at him, the more he'll swim around. Is it better to have him moving with the meds in there? Should I go "disturb" his bottom sitting from time to time, or is his occasional swimming enough? Maybe bothering him would just cause more stress?

I'll try to think positive. He has beat this before, so he can do it again. (I'm not a positive thinker in general - I tend to look for "Where can this go wrong?" )

Thank you again for checking in on him, Trinks.

Debs

Debs, ya've just got to relax,lol! I'm sure Smokey will be fine, but I worry about you having a nervous breakdown!

You called me the "Prime Queen", so I think I will call you "Ms. Murphy's Law" (whatever CAN go wrong WILL go wrong), lol!

The new tank will be ready before you know it, and I think that will solve a lot of your problems.

Vickie!!!!

The saddest part is that the name fits so well!!!

Smokey will be fine!!! No REALLY!!! In no time at all!!!

Vickie --> <--- Me

Thanks for giving me a laugh!! You're great!!


Debbie

Okay - okay, you can all get ready with the "I told you so"s.

His mouth is closed!!!!

I fed them food rubbed in garlic, and some without - in case Smokey would prefer it plain at the moment. The way he came charging at the food!!! Then he went back and sat on the bottom.. but earlier I had seen him swimming around.
I'm soooo happy!!!!!!! Can you tell that I love my li'l fishies??

Thank you all for your support!! I'm REALLY started to feel like he'll pull through this!!!

Debbie

See He's going to be fine. He was even better with the de-activated meds

Try to dissolve the powder in a little tank water first before adding and keep that light off. I think you'll need the shortest course only (5 days) and don't bother him if he's resting, the meds will take action if hes swimming or resting and bottom sitting time frame also lets you know how hes getting on so (less or more etc) not necc to disturb that.

Remember, these fish are shubs, they do need a lot of space- and they may feel stress about that. Very soon they'll be in the big tank and I think a lot of these issues will just go. If this comes back- you can use the food meds next time in the main tank without hurting the new cycle.

You're a caring fish mom and Smokey and Dot are very lucky to have you

Thank you Trinks
I feel very lucky to have them! While I was making rum balls earlier, Smokey came over to the corner and "watched" me for about an hour. He usually just sits in the back corner. Even when he's sick, he's adorable!!

The meds say to use them for 5 days, and could be repeated if necessary. I only have two lights on in the house right now. The small light over the stove, and a light with a dimmer - that's very dim. They don't get a too much light unless the kitchen and/or dining room lights are on. I have to go do a few dishes soon, but I'll probably put something over the tank to keep the light out.

I'll keep you posted!

Debs

Hello

Well, Smokey doesn't look any better today. I didn't see him eat anything when I fed them earlier. I also haven't seen him swim yet today - although he's been in different locations in the tank.
I'll be sure to take more time to watch and see if he eats later. I had fed them between getting Hubby his lunch and ironing his clothes for work, so I didn't stand and watch after the food went in - but he didn't swim out for it like he has been.
Could he be affected by temperature change? We had a cold snap come through last night. The house usually stays at 80º, but today it's 72º. It may have been colder in the morning. It was 72º around noon. (Outside was in the 30's this morning )
I've been keeping the lights off in the tank, and the lights down as much as possible in the house. I covered the front of the tank with a paper bag last night when I washed dishes - so they wouldn't get much of the light in there.
Most of the time when he's sitting, his dorsal fin is still up a bit. About half of what it normally is. I guess that's a good thing, right? Better than clamped? Sometimes it is, but mostly it's up halfway.


Well - I have to turn into a cookie factory.. but I'll be back to check in.

Thank you in advance for your help and concern!!

Debbie

I sure hope Smokey gets better soon, Deb! You are doing a wonderful job!!! Hang in there!

Thanks Nickie!

We posted at the same time! I hope you're hanging in there, too!!

Debbie

Haha, making cookies in the dark will be fun! Are you a dedicated Mom or what?!

And be happy for morning temps in the 30's Deb! It hasn't even gotten that high here yet, and its 5 pm. 30's would feel downright spring-like right now, lol!

If your tank doesn't have a heater, the temp drop could've made Smokey cold, also. I haven't used a heater in Moby and Florence's tank, but I may have to consider doing that in January or February when the temps really sink down and stay there. Right now we're sort of fluctuating, so they seem ok.

Hi Vickie

I'd do anything for my fishies!! I had a light behind me, so it wasn't tooooo dark. I just kept putting a shadow over everything - but that's okay. Everything keeps taking longer than planned - and I only managed to actually bake two batches of peanut butter cookies - although I made gingerbread cookie dough this morning and it's in the fridge. I have to make those after I finish up here. I'm hoping to finish in time to send cookies to the family up North. We'll see...

Smokey has been sitting at the bottom all day. He'll move a bit, but not far. He watched me make cookies again. I have two more days with the Maracyn 2. But even before, he got worse before he got better... so I'm still hoping. I'm not as positive as I was yesterday.. but I'm trying to be!! I keep telling him that he's my fishie boy, and he'll get better. Okay - I'll admit it.. I tell him I love him too.. Poor Dot - just swimming around in the dark.

I hope it's okay, but I give them a bit of light when I feed them. It's not shining directly in the tank, but I figured they need to see their food, no?

Well, I need to go post my non changing results of the 55 gallon in the Tank and Equipment section.

Take care!

Debs

Debbie, temperature does affect fish. A drop might have made Smokey bottom sit if he wasn't 100% to start. I am sorry the meds dont seem to be doing their job fast enough. I would still finish the course and see from there.

A little dim light is okay when they eat but no bright or direct light or this particular antibiotic wont work well.

Don't worry. We still have another trick up our sleeves if these meds dont work (the food) so be positive. Smokey has always been a sensitive one and may just be adjusting to the new 'tasting' water I hope he will eat something soon.

edit because I thought he had eaten...my fried brain...

Hi Trinks

I never did see him eat today. When I fed them tonight, he just looked at it fall. I dropped some near him to see if he'd go after it, but he didn't. Unless he eats when I'm not looking. He used to do that with peas.
I'll finish the course of meds for sure. I think I'll test the water tomorrow and see if it should be changed. I don't know if it's from the meds, or if Dot is taking all the food - but she pooped a lot tonight. Two strands within half an hour that were about 2 inches long. That's pretty unusual for her. Her poops are usually about 1/4" long - and come right out. It almost looks like food pellets. It must look like food to her too, since she... you know.
You're right.. Smokey has always been sensitive. And so many things at once, all while he's not well. The salt came out of the tank- and he would always bottom sit when I did that, then the new meds, then the change in temp. So maybe I'm worrying needlessly. (Me???? )
Anyway.. I'm exhausted - so I'm heading to bed.
Thank you for your help, Trinks - as always.

Debs

No change in Smokey today. His dorsal fin is down most of the time now, and he looks so tiny in there.
He's moving his mouth quite a bit, still - and his gills seem to move along with his mouth movements. Is that normal, and I didn't notice it before? Or does it mean he's breathing faster?
I didn't see him eat anything earlier today. I'll feed them again later, and try to hand feed him.
Well, one more day on the Maracyn2, and we'll see how it goes.

Debbie

aww, the poor fella! I sure hope he eats something to keep his strength up! Hopefully the meds will start working their magic soon! I'll keep my fingers crossed for him, and for you!

I'm a little surprised the Maracyn hasn't helped. He may not like it. The chomping is either something to do with gill function or infection in the mouth. If you move your jaw you can feel your ears move? So the same with fish if they move their mouth their gills (not ears but similar location!!) move..it helps with osmoregulation I guess. If hes not eating I am wondering if the bacteria is not in his mouth again making eating uncomfortable..Is the tank still dim lit with no bright lights? Maybe thats affecting his spirit too.

Very soon the course will be over. I really hope the new tank will be ready very soon. We still have the medicated food route if we can figure a good way to get him to eat. He ate the med food last time he had this didn't he?

Fins crossed for improvement

I'm very sorry to say that Smokey passed on last night.
He had started swimming around - so I thought he was getting better. For a second - it looked like he got stuck on the filter intake... so I went to wash my hands to get him off, and hubby said he got off himself.
I peeked in later and he was on his side - his little bottom fin sticking up. I nudged him to see if he could correct himself, but nothing happened. I nudged him again - and he was facing the glass. No gill movements and his mouth was in a very small "o" shape. There was no doubt that he was gone.
Of course - I'm me - and over attached to living beings - I started to cry. Hubby - being true to himself yelled "Oh for crying out loud, it was just a fish".
I took a small Ferrero Rocher container and put some silk fabric in it, and laid him in there. We're going to bury him this morning.
When I took him out, I noticed two things. On his left side, he looked gray instead of orange... then I turned him over and he had blood spots along that streak on his side.
(Also as I was taking him out, Hubby said -in his "this is pathetic" voice - "Make sure you wash your hands really good - I'm surprised YOU haven't gotten sick from putting your hand in there.". True compassion.. He made me feel stupid all night for being upset about my poor Smokey - which only made the pain worse.

I want to thank you all for all of your help and support. We tried.. I think this round of 'whatever it was' just escalated so fast. I was just telling hubby last night that trying to diagnose a fish this way was like going for a doctor visit over the phone. So much is trial and error, process of elimination, etc.. I know that I had the best help available for Smokey. I have to believe that it was meant to be.
I had even put an angel decoration on a shelf above the tank last night. I told hubby that the angel would watch over him. I hope it made his passing easy.
Poor Dot - every time I look in on her, she's swimming over where Smokey was last.

Um.. I'm going to finish up the last dosage of the Maracyn 2 anyway - so that no "super bugs" can develop. I hope it's the right thing to do.

Thank you all again.
Baby Smokey... you will always be greatly loved, and sorely missed

Debbie

oh no Debbie, i am so sorry
I am so sad that he died. I thought for sure he would pull through. But he was lucky to have such a caring owner. You did all that you could for him

little smokey

I'm also sorry that your husband isn't very understanding...but don't take that personally, most are like that. The fish aren't THEIR pets, they don't care for them the way that the owners do. Just know that everyone here understands, and we feel the same way that you do!

Oh Debbie, I just got home and read this and I am so so sorry. I am so sad for you. Poor little Smokey fought as hard as he could, but you could be right that this last bout was just too much for the little guy. I have been so worried about him since you mentioned his lack of growth compared to Dot.

Hon, he couldn't have had a better "mom". No way. And try not to hold it against hubby. Many people feel that way about fish. I know my son does.

Once again sweetie, my heart hurts for you. Its so hard to lose a pet. Little Smokey the Shubunkin will be missed by all of us.

Oh Debbie, I am so sorry about Smokey!!

After all this time, it felt like he was one of my own fishes. He will be missed by all of us. It didn't sound like he suffered too much.

Rest in peace Smokey.

I'm so sorry, Deb. But you did all you could for him and gave him a loving home with a wonderful fish mom! Also, an angel was watching over him last night and I am sure she thought that Lil Smokey had suffered enough and it was time for him to be at peace.
Don't be too upset at Hubby. As the others said, some people just don't understand that fish are our PETS, not a decoration for our homes. We love ya, Hon!

Oh Debbie. I cried I am so so so sorry Nickie was right, an angel took your sweet little baby because it was time. Smokey, never was a fish loved so much as you- he knew that, he did. Debbie you did everything for him.

Looking back, please remember Debs, that Smokey came to you sick. He was already very sick when he came home to you. The stress and disease in fish stores is hardest of all on the little fish like him. He was small, he never grew- I find that an indicator of internal problems already- he was so very sick when you fed him the med food that first time and he had another extra several months with you -you gave Smokey some very happy time with Dot in a loving home. That's a wonderful thing hun

I am so sorry about hubbies reaction. Try and understand he cannot understand this. My hubby is the same I am afraid to say. Dont hold it against him, he was stressed from work no doubt and he was not the one who invested his love and time in this fish as you did.
Members here know how you feel now. I know well how this hurts.

Now you must look after Dot. She is going to live long and strong in his memory and in a way, Smokey lives on in her.

Sending you hugs and comfort and love and I am personally so sorry I couldn't have helped him more. Be strong. We are all here for you

I can't thank you all enough for you outpouring of love and caring for Smokey.
While I do miss him terribly, I know he's not suffering anymore. I'm glad he went quickly.

Nickie, I also felt that the angel helped Smokey on. I admit, at first I thought "Is this an angel of death?" but then the senses kicked back in, and I believed it gave him peace.

While it's sad to see the tank without him, I was mentioning to someone earlier that at the same time - the worry and fear that has been on my shoulders (and in my heart) is gone. I'm trying to feel peace for him, instead of sadness for myself.

Trinks, you did all that you could. I know that you have always given your best to Smokey. I appreciate it more than words could say. You and JoH found what was wrong with Smokey the first time, so you both are the reason that I was able to have him this much longer.

We had a funeral for Smokey yesterday, and hubby dug the grave. Afterwards, he took a piece of a branch from the orange tree and laid it on the grave. That really touched me, and I told him so and thanked him. I also told my cat (I lost her in March) to watch over him and not eat him. Smokey is also with his brother, whom I never met. He didn't survive Christmas Eve.

Dot is doing fine. I don't know if she's just used to him not swimming - or if she's looking for him. Maybe both. I will take good care of her. I adore both of the fish. I loved Smokey's personality, and I love Dot's beauty. Like children - you love them the same, but you admire the different traits in them.

We have talked of getting a tank mate for Dot once the tank is cycled. Hubby wants to find one that looks like Smokey - but I'd rather not do that. Right now, I'd rather get one that looks more like Dot. Once Dot is in the big tank, I can use the 10 gallon to quarantine whatever I may decide to get. I think hubby is hoping to pick out a fish of his own this time. We have until the tank is cycled (and the pH steady for 3 days) - so we'll see.

Thank you again for all of your kind words. You have all touched my heart and greatly helped to comfort me.
I thank God for Koko for starting this website, and all of the wonderful people friends that I have met here.

Debbie

You know Debbie, thats something I hadn't thought about. When "hubby" picks out his own fish and learns how to care for it and gets attached to it, he may feel differently about how they are "just fish".

You know, I reread your initial post about Smokey's passing and your hubby's reaction, and it really is kind of typical. Sometimes men just don't know what to do when their significant others get upset...the fact that he helped you have a funeral and put an orange branch on his little grave shows that he does care about how you feel. So maybe give him a pass on his initial reaction?

This could turn into a case of little Smokey still causing good things to happen even after he is gone.