I think my goldfish Fisher is on his way out. He hasn't eaten since last Wednesday and has been listless...I'm guessing constipation problem. I've changed the water, added aquarium salt, fed peas, etc. Last night he took a turn for the worse and just laid on the bottom, breathing with effort. I didn't think he would be alive when I woke up this morning, alas, he was, and was still struggling. I tried another pea and he freaked and ended up almost siezing upside down on the bottom. I righted him, but when I left the house he was just on the bottom, with minimal gill movement and almost twitching.

I'm really hoping Fisher died at some point today (I know that sounds awful! But I just don't want him in misery.) But if I get home and he's still alive is there anything I can put in his tank to ease his suffering??

I've read the fish euthenaisa pages, but I can't bring myself to any of those options.

Any suggestions??

I'm just heartbroken over the whole thing. Fisher is about 3 and a half years old, so maybe he's just dying of old age?

if u dont want him to suffer then try euthanizing him with the clove oil method, or some member put the fish in the freezer, soory to hear he isnt doing well. Can u answer the questions at the top of the page so mods could try to make a diagnosis?

Hi Hon, and welcome to KoKos! I am so sorry to hear about your fish. There is a white box at the top of this page. If you could answer all the questions you can, it will help a lot. GF, kept in the right enviroment, can live to be 20 yrs old and older. We need to get to the bottom of the problem and hopefully, be able to save your fishie friend. Hang in there and I hope Fisher hangs on, too, as there is always hope!!!!

Here are my embarrasingly novice answers:

I don't have any water tests.
My tank is 5 gallons.
I can't remember the filter, but it's sized for a 10 gallon tank. I put white "bio" bags in it.
I change about 50% of the water every 2 weeks. I clean the whole tank every 2-3 months. (Last cleaning was Tuesday night -- after which he perked up a bit.)
1 fish in the tank. He's about 4 inches, maybe?
Only "medication" in the tank is the aquarium salt.
I feed him the goldfish crips (they have a reddish tinge).
He's staying at the bottom, not eating, twitching, occasionally freaking out and seizing, during a transfer from the tank to a bowl he jumped and slammed his head on the kitchen counter -- he now has a red spot on his face. He's also losing scales here and there.

Hello uberleslie and welcome!

I'm sure a mod or helper will be along shortly to help you out. You don't say if your goldie is a fancy or a comet, but I think they will tell you that 5 gallons is insufficient to house your fish. The general rule of thumb here at Koko's is 10 gallons for each fancy and 20 gallons for each comet. I'd do a large temperature matched water change-80-90% as your water params may be high in ammonia, and I would not transfer him to a bowl from the tank. Right now especially he needs the room and oxygen.

Goldfish can typically live around 10 years or more if they are cared for properly, so I don't think its old age.

It would help them a lot if you could get a water testing kit and answer the above questions. That is something that is crucial to helping your fish and keeping problems in check. It will also help them diagnose what the problem is.

Good luck, and I'm sure someone will be here soon to help you.

Hi uberleslie!

If I might add my two cents here... If you don't have a test kit, you can bring some of your tank water to your pet store and they'll test it for free. Have them write down that exact parameters, instead of just telling you that they're good, fine, high or what have you. Just bring it in a small - very clean - jar or container.
You're tank is overstocked, and that is something you can deal with - with frequent water changes. My tank is overstocked as well, and I do 30% to 60% water changes every other day to keep the water clean for them. (2 fish in 10 gallons)
You said he perked up after your last big water change, so maybe good clean water (treated for chlorine of course ) can be a good start to his recovery!
Good luck with your fish!! We're all pulling for both of you!
Like everyone said, a Moderator or Helper will be here shortly to get more info from you, and give you excellent advice.


Debbie

Yeah I had my largest goldfish get sick really really bad. Nothing I did would help. So I did the freezer method. I have no problem euthanizing animals for some reason. I guess since I have watched many suffer before and would rather take care of it that way. I dunno.

just got home. he's still alive. his tank water is all cloudy. i didn't have enough bottled water on hand to do a water change, so i poured what i had in a bowl and put him in there. he's lying at the bottom on his side now...

and i think he's a 'common goldfish' - he's just a plain regular one

Just ran to the pet store...the water tested fine. The fish lady said he might have a parasite, because of the thrashing around. I got Parasite Clear (Tank Buddy) tablets and put 1/2 of one in the tank (it was 1 per 10 gallon). I put Fisher back in too with about a 30% water change.

I'm crossing my fingers now. Is there ANYTHING else I can be doing?

I never realized how much I cared for the silly fish. I swear, this is crazy. His original name was "Tester Fish" back 3 years ago when we had new more expensive goldfish die on us. We bought him from the el-cheapo tank for 60-cents, and he's the one that survived. We renamed him some time ago after Tester no longer seemed appropriate (he outlived a couple other fishy friends too -- both just died suddenly).

I'm really hoping he'll bounce back.

From all the thrashing, he's missing scales and has what looks like a blood-bruise on his forehead and upper lip -- are those signs of something or might they go away??

Okay, Hon, Good job!
I want to ask why you use bottled water? Do you have an water conditioner, such as Prime? If so, you can use your own tap water and use conditioner in it. I agree with everyone, as 5g is not big enough for your fish, BUT you can keep him in that 5g until you can get a larger home for him. However, you REALLY have to be dilligent about water changes.
Don't worry, we were all new here once and did bad things for our fish that we did not know was bad. I'm one of them!!!! I had two fish in a 2.5g starter tank!!!
If you want to be able to keep him in the 5g, here is what you need immediately:
A water test kit that test ammonia, ph, nitrate, and nitrite. Water conditioner, such as Prime.
You will have to make sure to change the water in his tank to keep the ammonia, nitrite, and nitrates down. I would change about 40-50% every other day at least. However, when I found out about my uh-oh, I did complete water changes three times a day.
Also, check out our food forum as it tells you about a bunch of yummy and nitritious food you can feed your GF as they need a variety to stay healthy.
I think the only prob REALLY is your water. Your fish is prolly suffering from toxic poisoning.
A mod will be on here real soon to check on this. If any meds are needed, they will let you know. Hang in there!!!

Ooops, you were posting the same time I was. If your water was okay, then it was because you did a water change. Believe me, every two weeks in a 5g is not enough for him. I am sure this is water related, but I want a mod to see it. Don't add anymore meds to the tank, okay? You don't want to do anything to make him worse.

Uberleslie, I'd like to caution you about one thing while we're waiting for a mod or helper to see your post. The people at the lfs (live fish store) don't always give the best advice. One thing is that they are there to sell a product. Its not a great idea to use meds on your fish until you are sure what the problem is as it can adversely affect your fish and their immune system.

I came here when my fantail developed a small growth on his back. The lady at the lfs told me it was fungus and recommended Jungle Fungus Clear after telling me to turn off my filter. The water turned green, my fantail turned black from ammonia burns and almost died as a result of being in too small of a tank with too few water changes, and toxic water from the meds. After I got them in a bigger tank and he healed up, it turned out that his growth is a cosmetic lesion caused by poor water quality and a too small environment. They will also tell you at the lfs that the rule of thumb for goldies is "one inch of water per fish." That is also incorrect. They aren't being malicious, but generally they don't know what they are talking about.

If a mod or helper doesn't see your post soon, one of us will pm one, okay?

ps-I pm'd Trinket for you. It may be later when she posts, as her time is upside down from ours, but I'm sure she will respond for you.

Fisher is still hanging out at the bottom, he just did a crazy thrashing about again, and ended up upside down. I swear I think he's having a seizure. I reached in and righted him and he's back at bottom twitching.

I'm now seeing where he's lost scales a bit of discoloration. Seems like it is inside of him -- like internal bleeding?!

I'm now keenly aware of my small tank problem and I promise to rectify if he pulls through. I keep telling him if he gets better his house will double as incentive! I just can't spend a ton of money on a big tank if he's on his way out anyway.

And the lady at the pet store seemed knowledgeable. She actually couldn't find the parasite product at first and was giving me directions to a competitor's store...then she found the product misplaced, so I think she really did have good intentions.

Yes, some lfs ppl do TRY to give the right advice; God love them cause most them just don't care about anything but the ALL MIGHTY dollar! LOL! BTW, if Fisher pulls thru, you can always home him in a Rubbermade container, say 10-20g with a filter that turns over 100-200gph until you can get a bigger tank. A Rubbermade will only cost about 10.00 and you can get a Tetra Whisper 10-30 filter that turns over 150gph for 12.00 at Wally-World. That is IF he pulls thru. I am praying for ya and for him!

a secondary question i have now is now long do i leave out the carbon filter?? i was supposed to take it out for the parasite tablet, but when do i put it back in? (it's been about 3 hours)

How long are you supposed to leave the meds in the tank? Do the directions say? When you put the carbon back in, it will filter the meds out of your tank (well, most of them); that is why they say to take it out. I would say put the carbon back in when you are finished treating with the meds, but I REALLY don't know as I have not had to use meds that treat the water yet; KNOCK ON WOOD! I have only had to use med food. Hang on and lemme see if I can find a mod...

Edit: I Pmed Fishmerised for ya...

for parasites i generally treat week 1 and week 3 if needed then i do week 5 i don't use a filter as it is a qt tank and i do daily waterchanges which is why i don't use a filter i provide plenty of aeration as well as the meds take the oxygen out of the water. keep the carbon out for as long as you are treating with meds (this can be anything from 1 week to more than a month) as the carbon removes meds from the water. Generally carbon is not needed i replace it with other bio media

the package (and website) just say leave out the carbon filter while treating. not helpful!

so i'm guessing i should at the very least leave it out for the night and maybe next few days (if he hangs in there?)

I would leave the carbon out until a mod gets on here. Normally, if you are treating for parasites, then you need to treat more than one day. Also, like Dan said, you need oxygen in the water as meds will deplete the water of oxygen. Do you have an airpump or something to put in there. Also, get a water test kit asap.

no i don't have an air pump. i could get one tomorrow, but i think everything's closed for the night. i don't even think my tank has a place to put one! i'm realizing more and more i'm not a good fish mom...but i want to help him any way i can.

he's still on the bottom. the water is pretty cloudy too. so frustrated...

Don't get frustrated, Hon! You are doing what you can right now. You are not a bad fish mom, either. You just didn't know, like most of us who came on this board did not know. You will learn and you will be embarrassed by the mistakes, but PLEASE, always be honest here so everyone can help as much as they can.
I made SO many mistakes when I first came here and I didn't want to say what I did because I thought everyone would jump on me. This forum is like a second family for me now and I have learned SO much! YOU WILL, TOO! Just hang in there...

hang in there, uberleslie. i really feel for you, i'm going through the same thing right now.

Hello there uberleslie and Fisher,

I am so sorry to hear about your problems!! It is very upsetting having a sick fish- sometimes its the very moment when we realise how precious our fishpets are!

First of all I'd like to say it is very difficult for us to make a clear diagnosis without some information about the levels of ammonia and nitrite in your tank. Also how often your water changes are- your pH or water source...do you always use bottled water? When the fish store checked your water, they should have written down the exact numbers for all these. We need to know those numbers.

I find it quite unlikely that your fish of 3 years has suddenly come down with parasites despite the good intentions and concern of the fishstore person.. Parasite incubation period is much less than 3 years and parasites have to be introduced to the tank via a new fish or contaminated plants or cleaning equipment. The only exception is the white spot parasite called ich. Can you see any white spots on your fish? Any other signs of disease like red spots or just the unusual stressed behavior?

Please do as Vickie said, another very large temperature matched water change in case this is ammonia related and post back with answers to the questions in the box as soon as you can.

I forgot to get the levels from the pet story lady. I'll try to test again on my work lunch. I always use bottled water (drinking water) to change his tank. My last tank cleaning and about 95% water change was about a month ago and he was fine until he stopped eating. Now all of the craziness has ensued.

I did about another 30% water change (all I have on hand other than tap) and put the carbon filter back in. If it's not parasites, I don't see what the point of keeping it out is.

Also, the pet store lady reconnemded "Cycle" (Nutrafin). Should I put some of this in now?

here is his side - you can see the missing scales. other than that, there are no white spots. he is losing color though - he's more white all over than ever...


here is his face - you can see the red spots (bruises?) from darting around. they're on his forehead (the first to appear), lower lip and cheek...


this is kinda what he's been doing since wednesday night now...

Oh dear, poor baby. But this does look exactly like water problems to me.

It means the solution is inexpensive and right nearby you. Another water change, 100% immediately.

Let me just explain a little more about water and water changes. Bear with me. A fish lives and breathes his water, and is constantly excreting poo and body waste into that same water which passes through the filter but is not completely cleaned by the filter. We still need to renew the water partially every few days. You can read up about the cycling process of a tank here on the forum -which is the process of building beneficial bacteria in your tank to make it safe for the fish via regular water changes. These must be done every day or few days at a minimum 50% until your tank is "cycled". Only when the tank is fully cycled can we slack of with those water changes.

I think you are making a lot of work for yourself with the bottled water. Fish need the minerals that are found in regular tap water. Bottled water does not contain the necessary trace elements vital to a fishes health. The only thing dangerous about our tap water usually are the chloramines and chlorine in it that can be perfectly neutralised with a product like Prime or Amquel. Water conditioners. I think you should buy some Prime and begin to use your tap water. Meanwhile, please do another huge water change. Believe me this is all that is needed here but done daily for quite some time to get back on track.

A water problem is the scariest thing to me because it's going to take SO long to fix, and I'm SO inexperienced with testing ammonia/nitrates and all that...I'm trying to read up and educate myself quickly.

I'm at work now and hoping to sneak out at lunch to buy a testing kit. Should I buy a new and larger aquarium NOW? Should I start from scratch -- new rocks and all? I now know the 5-gal is WAY to small for Fisher... But would installing a new tank help or make this situation worse? I'm almost thinking it can't hurt...the poor thing has been struggling for a WEEK now.

Aw hun , we all started here and I do know how you feel and how bad it makes you feel too...

Heres what I'd do. Get a bottle of Prime in your lunch hour and get your fish into clear tap water treated first before you add it.

Then look around for a 20 gallon tank and a filter. then you'll have two -always good. The water is urgent, the tank and water testing kits can wait a few days.

okay. i'm attempting the water testing. the lady at a different pet store gave me some strips for free, but i bought the kit too.

here's where i am:

old water - strip tested (haven't used the kit yet)
nitrate - 20
nitrite - 1.0
hardness - 75/100-ish
chlorine - 0
alkalinity - 120
pH - 8.4

new water - strip tested (about to put him in this water in a bucket, so want to be sure it's okay)
nitrate - 10
nitrite - 0
hardness - 25/50-ish
chlorine - 0
alkalinity - 0/10-ish
pH - 6.8/7

and i did an ammonia test with the kit so far:

old water - 1.5/2.0-ish
new water - 0

so is this an ammonia problem? is the new bucket water safe?

edit: i also put Prime in the new bucket water, a bit of aquarium salt and tiny bit of Stress Coat...

okay, i just put him in the new water. i couldn't stand seeing him in the tank shoved under the filter.

he's thrashing about in the new water. and he's now bobbing to come up for air. is it just the shock of the new water? how long will it take for him to start perking up?

he's looking worse for wear too -- a bit of blood between some of his scales.

christ, this is so frustrating...i don't know how to help the poor guy. (side note...any way to tell if he's a male or female, i always just assumed, but...?)

here are the water readings from the new water (tested using the kit, not the strip)...

nitrate: 0
nitrite: 0
pH: 7.6
high range pH: 7.4 (how is this different from pH? - confused on this one...)
ammonia: 0

i'm also seeing some bloody lines in his tail. and i think a little bloody stool (which i haven't seen ANY stool for days now...but it's hard to see with my rock color).

don't know if it's useful, but here are the stats on his tank water (which was changed 100% on tues night, 30% on wed, and 30% on thurs)...

ammonia: 1.0ish - a little darker, but not quite 2.0
nitrate: 5.0
pH: 7.6
nitrite: 0.25

more pictures. he's in the bucket still...

missing so many scales now! (just on this one side though)


streaks in his tail

can a mod rename my thread? i haven't had any replies in a while and i wonder if it's because of the title -- i'm more on a rescue mission now and not just giving up on him.

and update: tried to get him to eat a piece of food and a pea. he took some in, but then spit it out. it's been a week without food now.

The readings from your new tested water in the bucket are fine . You are using Prime so that is good. The Prime will actually BIND with the ammonia and nitrites and make them NON-TOXIC for fish up to .75 (ammonia). The Prime must be replenished every 24 hours to be active. The main thing you want to try and do is keep the nitrites and ammonia as low as you can. The nitrates aren't so bad as a fish can live in nitrates as high as 40, but keeping them under 20 is better. You ph is fine.
My guess, after reading your post where you stated you changed 30% of the water on Wed, Thurs, and Fri, you still had over 1.0ppm ammonia, 5.0 on nitrate, and .25 on nitrite after the water changes, is that your water (before all these waterchanges you did) was VERY toxic. I believe your fish will pull out of this but you have to try and keep his water as pristine as possible. With clean water, I think those red streaks (which are usually caused by toxic water) will go away. You might want to get some medicated food, but WAIT on that until Trinket sees this.
Just try to keep the ammonia and nitrite levels as low as possible as this is what really kills fish. I would do a 100% wc in his tank, then add Prime, then put him back in with his filter. Before you do that, have you ever cleaned the filter in his tank? If not, then what you may need to do is take some of his old tank water and put it in a bucket, then take the filter pads out and give them a good swishing around in the tank water, then put them back in the filter.
After that, do a 100% wc, then add Prime and put him back in.
Make sure you keep a close eye on the params. I would check them twice a day at least.
After he gets better, then you can shop around for a bigger tank and filter for him. Don't worry, Hon, you are doing everything right! Keep up the good work!!!
I am sure Trinket will be on later to look at this. For now, just keep up those wcs and try to feed him a little every day to see when his appetite comes back.

i will def keep checking the water. i'm so paranoid about putting him back in the tank. i cleaned everything on tuesday night -- rocks, treethinggies, filter holder -- and put in a new carbon filter. i cleaned the tank and the lid -- everything.

my mom had the fish for awhile (while we moved from orlando to atlanta) and she put the tank on a cookie sheet (because he splashed too much -- read: she overfilled the tank). but there are now rust stains on the bottom of the tank, and they won't come off. (the tank is acrylic.) should i try to put the filter in the bucket?? (the bucket is 2.5 gal).

Hi. Sorry I couldn't get back- on adifferent time line. Thanks Nickie...

Yes I agree some medicated food would be wonderful. Well done about the bucket but the tank with its filter is really best. I should prime water in the filtered tank, get the filter up an drunning and get him back in soon as thats ready.

Can you get him some Geltek medicated food- try Neomycin or tetracycline one. And start feeding that to deal with the bleeding.
He may need a few days in perfect water before his appetite comes back. Try hand feeding a teeny piece of pea meanwhile. Dont force him or he'll get stressed. Primed water will give him a few nutrients form the minerals in the tap.

Dont worry about rust on the outside of the tank.

Please DO NOT add any water medication to his water. It will push this fish over the edge.

You are doing good.

thank you both SO MUCH for your help. i've been so stressed the past week because of this. i swear, i never thought i would get this worked up over Fisher. if he just died, that's one thing...but to see him suffering at my inexperience is just awful.

i'm off to the pet store to buy the medicated food and a new filter. i'll try to do a tank cleaning again and get him back in there tonight.

Great! Keep us posted!!!

just got back from the pet store. they only had tetracycline as a powder (which i bought and then realized was a medication for the water, so i took it back!). the only anti-bacterial medicated food they had is "Anti-Bacteria Medicated Fish Food" (Jungle) sodium sulfathiazole2.3% and nitrofurazone 0.13% -- is this okay to try to give him??

i'm doing a 100% tank cleaning right now (rocks, trees, filter, tank, everything) and will add his bucket water + new (treated) tap water.

gah...yet another question. i just tested Fisher's bucket water again and the ammonia is between .25 and .5 -- and it was just zero a few hours ago. is the fish causing the ammonia level to go up?

I'm not sure about that medicated food. I don't want to tell ya the wrong thing. I would wait for Trinket to tell ya on that.



Prime can cause a false reading in ammonia. How long ago did you change the water in his bucket? Either way, the prime will detox up to .75ppm of ammonia for 24 hrs, so if you changed his water today, the ammonia will not be toxic to him up to .75ppm until 24 hrs after you changed the water.

I can't swear to this, but I think that Trinket liked the Jungle Medicated food. Either way, if thats all you can get your hands on, I think it will be ok.

Just remember to be diligent about your water changes and testing the params. How is Fisher doing today?

We're all keeping our fingers crossed for him...and you of course!

All of us started out inexperienced. That doesn't make you a bad "fish mom" so please don't beat yourself up. Fisher is a fighter and so are you!

i just put him back in his tank. i prepped the water in advance with prime, stress coat, and aquarium salt. i used about 20% water from the bucket. he didn't flash around when i transferred him, which he's been doing for days now. don't know if that's a good or bad sign. he's just laying on the bottom on his side now, his gills are going...but not really strong.

i guess all i can do is check/change the water in the morning. can i prep more water tonight for a 50% change tomorrow -- or should i prep in the morning?

With Prime, you don't have to prep the water, Hon. You just add it to your tap water when you put it in the tank. Just make sure the tap water you are adding is the same temp as the water that is in the tank. BTW, have you tested your params of your water straight from the tap? If so, what are those readings?

testing water straight from the tap:

ammonia - 0 (maybe a trace, it's a bit of a deeper yellow than the card, but no green tinge)
nitrate - 0
nitrite - 0
pH - 7.8+ (it's brighter blue than the card)
high range pH - 8.4

if i let the tap water sit overnight will the pH drop a bit - it seems too high, right?

Yes I am afraid so. He excretes ammonia.

Thats okay- double the prime in the new water and make it 90% new water and just add the fish in a cup with the old water.
This is why daily water changes are so important till the "cycle" is finished.

What is the pH in the water hes in now?

The tap water is not too high. Mine is that high. The problem with pH is mainly if there is a difference between water pH in tap and the water hes in.

The med food is fine.

what about the medicine i got: "Anti-Bacteria Medicated Fish Food" (Jungle) sodium sulfathiazole2.3% and nitrofurazone 0.13% -- is this okay?

Its not the best food but it will do...

Did they not have Geltek?

nope. the only tetracycline they had was a powder. and i wanted to avoide medicating the water and screwing that all up again!

Okay then, it is second best and it will do. Not technically "antibiotic" but definietely anti bacteria so it will be fine- if he eats it.

How are you with the water now? How is Fisher?