Hi Tazz and welcome to kokos.

What I am wondering is which commercial buffer you are using for your pH and why you are using it? You may be stressing your fish more by using a commercial buffer than not using one. Have you experienced pH swings from the tap? You say your pH is 8. Is that from the tap or the tank? Your KH and GH look strong enough to be offering sufficient initial buffering capacity. Is there anything in the tank that could be affecting alkalinity/reducing carbonates? Is it possible your tap water contains copper?

I use API proper PH because our tap water comes out at about 6.5, bit off for goldfish. I have to use it for my africans as well.
I tested for copper and a few other metals last night, nothing significant

The symptoms your fish experienced with the peeling slimecoat and the red burn make me wonder if your fish hasn't been exposed to dangerous acids in the water due to a plunging pH.

I've been watching the tank far more closely than any of my others, we test it daily, there hasnt been any significant swings.

The other thing is the medical history. That is a lot of meds to have used in this tank and on your fish in the 2 month time frame.
Medication when not precise or needed, weakens the fishes immunity and also plays havoc with pH and water quality.Some of the meds you mention are also more dangerous in soft water. The medications can kill your biofilter bacteria fast making resulting ammonia at higher pH more dangerous. Gill tissue is the primary target for acid stress and acid stress predisposes the fish to bacterial and other infections. Fish will hover at the surface, gasping as you describe when their gills are compromised in this way.

Only 1 fish of the group is having problems, the smaller ones have a few scales missing but thats about it. The biofilter must
be working still, the ammonia and nitrite/nitrate levels are all in good shape.

The other thing I notice is the undergravel filter. I think these are not very suitable flters for goldies personally. The gas produced by rotting waste is so close to the place where the fish eat and roam - and their capacity for biofiltration is very limited. They are better for tropical fish who produce less waste.

Did you see where I mentioned have 2 large aquaclears in there? I never rely on undergravel for anything other than a betta or
guppy.

In view of the fact that you have tried a whole spectrum of meds including those containing malachite green & nitrofurazone (strongly toxic in soft water), I would be tempted to focus on no meds now and daily monitoring of pH (a monitor is a wise investment) and ammonia/nitrite levels with the more frequent water changes.

I've been doing that all along. I've been cleaning twice a week.

I would focus on strengthening your fishes own immunity now with a variety of different foods including vitamin c items like orange and peas and giving them healing time in ammonia/nitrite free water with a stable pH.

were all just trying to help, and its not like we knew that u were some kind of professional, if u think u know better then why did u come here in the first place. If I were u i'd listen to what Trinket said.

Nickie beat me to it

Tazz- I did read your post extremely carefully. I read it at least 4 times and I thought very carefully about the advice I then gave.

I understand that you have been keeping fish for 25 years like myself but I do notice that those fish you have been keeping are tropical fish and tropical fish have very different requirements. Many people who switch to goldies find it alarming that goldies are so much more vulnerable to water issues and slight changes of any kind. I apologise if you think I was treating you like a beginner -that must hurt - but if you look carefully at the way I answered I did not treat you like a beginner. With a beginner I would never have mentioned drug ingredient terms for example. With the information that you provided for me in the box TWO things stood out for me. 1) was that you said the water was soft and 2) was the amount of medication that you had used in the last 2 months on yor fish.
If you go back and read your post from an objective point of view, I think you'll agree those are the 2 weak links in your otherwise good set up.

Ok, I mentioned the tap water being soft, however did you read the numbers I gave on PH? That water is not soft, because I
add stuff to harden it up- same way I do for my africans. I run a 125 gallon 'pond', where I pretreat the water that goes into
those tanks, so the water is what they need when they get it, no fluctuating. The meds, well, part of the problem is that not
all meds work on everything. Some bacteria are easier to kill, some need something more specific. I've got some pretty decent
experience in microbiology, especially in animals. When culturing isn't realistic, then you pretty much have to go at it until you
find something that works. I don't like it, but there isn't much choice. Thats why I'm looking for something else to try. I know
what I do with my water, so I know thats not the issue. I test the replacement water before I put it in, and with this tank in
particular, I've been testing it daily. The fish are my hubbies and I really do want to save them. I would have thought from
the readings I gave, it would be apparant the water they are in is fine.


These medications you used should have eradicted the problem, wether bacterial or parsitical. So I am left with only one diagnostic option- the fact that in some way your water softness or conditions have affected the efficiency of the medications you used. Please try to understand the angle I pursued and why. Read your post again from our point of view- what advice would you give? What areas of weakness would you find?

Secondly, I would like to point out in defence of all people giving advice on fish forums that while you did fill out the information requested, from this side of the table we really have very little information of a persons knowledge and background of fishkeeping unless you tell us. We do not know you- as a new poster -and we are therefore at a disadvantage when diagnosing your fish and understanding your set up. Sometimes it takes a whole thread of posting and replies to arrive at a solution to the problem. The first reply post is merely a first impression. It does not mean it is a correct diagnosis and therefore should be vehemently challenged as such. It means that the poster should listen -as Nickie kindly pointed out- to another person's viewpoint and then discuss some more, areas of that viewpoint that have been for some reason misinterpreted. By discussing and sometimes- tiresome though it can be -repeating information patiently you will get the best results.

Please remember this is a job of love helping on a forum and we do our best to try and help you but it is difficult and in fact impossible to be right every time.

I hope you'll think about this and post back.

as I am located in australia and we don't have access to the variety of ABs you do I am unsure of whether any of the said meds are oral. From your description it sounds like your fish have contracted an internal bacterial infection, most probably introduced from lice bite, this stuff I know you've probably worked out since you are an 'expert'. If you have tried oral AB's and they aren't working for you I suggest you investigate injecting. your thread has been highlighted for the moderators, someone might be able to help you with this.

Mads, I just looked up the meds used, and they were all liquids and powders that treated the tank. Should she try anti-bac food?

Most definitely! -Tazz, if you haven't tried, you should consider getting some food that contains ABs, I've heard americans on the board rave about Metromeds food (food laced with metronidazole, ormetoprim-sulfa and oxytetracycline) and Medigold (food laced with ormetoprim, sulfadimethoxine, kanamycin and oxolinic acid) for treating internal bacterial infections. You say your fish are still actively eating so feeding them these foods shouldn't be a problem.

You say your fish are hanging round the surface, what does their gills look like? Just trying to work out what the cause of this is, as koko is suggesting, perhaps it's the temp of your tank, as you know, less O2 is dissolved in warmer water, I know you've mentioned your air wall, but lowering the temperature if it's too high might help your fish's breathing. On the other hand it could possibly be another symptom if your fish does indeed have a bacterial infection, but it is also possible that their gills were damaged as a result of the treatments they have been subjected to.

I have another suggestion for you. fish flakes/pellets as a staple food for goldfish is often not enough when they are sick, it would benefit them to feed them orange for vit C and garlic as an immune booster, also fresh, blanched greens (like kale/spinach/sprouted alphalfa) is a good nutrient kick to help them fight what ever infection has got hold.

im very worried about that UG, is the powerhead pushing air into the UG or is it sucking from the bottom.....

There is 4 stacks to the UG, 3 have air pushing in, the powerhead circulates by drawing out from
the bottom. When I do water changes, I concentrate on the gravel, it gets a twice over each time,
more if its grungy. I know goldfish are dirty, thats why the 2 big AC's, and when it comes to air, the
more the better. Undergravel is ok if you maintain, I've seen alot of people who don't. I get very
little grunge buildup

Temp is good. Water is good.

I also wonder if you can get a pic of this fish so we can see it? The only way to get it to show on here is from photobucket or something like that.

I'll try to get a pic up tomorrow.

trying to help

is there other fish in this tank?

First thing I would like u to do is a water change, then add some aquarium salt to the tank one teaspoon per 5 gals for now. Also do you have some peroxide if you do, to help them for now is to get a q-tip dip it in the peroxide, hold the fish so its gills are still in the water and gently clean the sores on the fish with it. place the fish back in the tank and do the same to any other fish that has sores.
Please don't get this in there gills or eyes.

how are we doing today?