Okay, background:
Day 41 of trying to get my tank to cycle. No nitrites or nitrates at this time. Many suggestions have been made on how to get nitrites to show up. My ph is between 7.2-7.4. My temp is stable at 75 degrees. For the past 4 days, I have been trying to let my ammonia rise to get nitrites started. This morning, it was at 2.0. I did a big wc then, to bring it back down. Using Prime and Stability. Been using Stability for 11 days now.
Some have suggested using a heater, but I am so scared of them that I have not tried. However, if no nitrites by Monday, will consider this option.
My tank is a 29g tank with two fish. A fantail that is aprox 3-4 inches and a moor/demekin, that is aprox 3 inches. This is w/out their tales.
May have to get some Bio-Spira, as well.

My thoughts are that ammonia needs to spike at 1.5ppm - 2ppm over 2 weeks to trigger nitrites. But you already know that. I hope other people will respond with their cycling logs to help you.

Day 42:
Ammonia last night was at 1.0. I added some Prime, but did not change the water.
This morning, ammonia was at 2.0, did wc and added Stability and Prime. No nitrites. May add heater tomorrow to bring temp up to about 77-78. Temp is at 75 now. Any suggestions?

How is your pH? Higher the pH and the temp, the more dangerous ammonia is at 2.0. I suppose Prime "locks" in the ammonia? I have never used Prime so I can't comment on it.

My ph is still stable; in between 7.2-7.4 as it always has been. I know that higher temps can cause damage with high ammonia. I just don't know what to do anymore.

Right. Her fish are staying safe as long as she redoses every 24 hours, since that is the lifespan of the "locking" mechanism.

Does prime inhibit the growth of the ammo eating, nitrite pooping bacterias?

Where have you been?

Water check tonight:
No nitrites (BIG SHOCKER THERE)
Ammonia: .50

I am about at my wits end...

Monday morning, Dec. 3,
Ammonia this morning is back up between 2.0 and 4.0! Am going to do a wc pronto. No nitrites.

Day 44: Ammonia has been rising from .50 at night to 2.0 by the time I get up and test in the morning. Was the same this morning. Ammonia was at 2.0 and no nitrites.

Grrrr!!! Where are they hiding??? Have you forgotten to send them an invitation?
I'm sorry - I shouldn't laugh when you're so frustrated.
I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you!!


Debbie

Oh Nickie hon, hang in there! I do know how frustrating it is, as I just went through this a couple of months ago. No nitrites...ammonia rising every day...water changes out the wazoo...

It WILL come together, sometimes it just takes time. After going through all that you have gone through, now my ammonia stays at 0 all the time. I do 30% water changes once a week, but it still stays at 0. It makes you want to pull your hair out, but it does even out in time.

Crossing my fingers for you and here's a big hug!

Thanks to both of you. I just thought by now I would be showing something besides ammonia!

Day 44: Tuesday night:

I did a big wc today because this morning, my ammonia was at 2.0. I just checked my params and my ammonia is back up to 1.0! Also, my nitrites are 0, PH is between 7.2-7.4 and it LOOKS like I may have some nitrates??? The water is not yellow, but not orange, either; sort of in-between??? The color is closer to .5 than to 0 on the nitrate card. I would appreciate ANY help that ANYONE can give me!!! My tank temp is 75 degrees.
I am going to add some more Prime to my water now.

Edit: Hubby says nitrate color looks yellow to him??? That would mean no nitrates...I'm not sure.

yellow means no nitrates with the API Tests

Nickie, when the new tank was cycling, I thought I had an inbetween number too, but then figured it was wishful thinking. The next time I tested, I had both nitrites AND nitrates... so maybe it's a good sign!

Keep us posted!!

Debbie

Yes, I know, read my post above...


I will, Debs! Thanks!

Day 45, Wednesday, Dec. 5:
Ammonia was back up to almost 2.0 this morning. Did a wc. No nitrites.

ur tank is taking forever to cycle! If I could i'd send u some seeded media but the bacteria would die before they'd get to u

Thanks, Shamu! I appreciate the thought!

I sent you a PM earlier, but just as an added thought - per Daryl, putting your media bags ON TOP of a bubble wand or wall so that the oxygen flows through it should help. I do this in my media tank. Yes, I have a tank just for cycling media.

Day 47: No nitrites this morning. Ammonia is still climbing very high, very quickly. I did a big wc yesterday; checked ammonia last night and it was almost a 1.0. Added more Prime. This morning, ammonia was over 2.0. Time for another wc...

Day 47; That night:
I did a big wc today because the ammonia was at 2.0 this morning. I just checked the water again and ammonia is back at 1.0 again!!! Also, my tank has a strong smell to it, not unlike the regular smells that tanks have, just a lot stronger than it was. I wonder WHY my ammonia is climbing so high, so quickly? I did an 80-90% wc this morning...

Still no Nitrites?

Could be good news. Could mean nitrites are on their way!

I still think you could try a combination of several things: add heat, feed every other day or every 2 days, add extra bubbles under media bags, check GH/KH, raise PH with a little baking soda

I have had tanks that take up to 8+ weeks to cycle. BUt the majority of the "cycle" time was spent in getting the obnoxious BB that process nitrite into nitrate to work - not the ammonia ones!

As far as color on a color chart - if your hubby is like mine, yellow is yellow. There is no such thing as Yellow/orange or "peach" or "red-orange". He sees red, yellow, green, blue and purple. That is IT.

I do not know what Stability has in it.... I will have to research that. Could it somehow be inhibiting things? IF I recall it is one of those "miracle" products that supposedly gives you a cycle..... I have never met one, with the exception of BioSpira, that actually does. I wonder what is IN Stability......

I see nothing wrong in what you are doing. You might want to feed more lightly or every other day or so..... less in means less out and the ammonia will not climb so fast. I usually limit my fish's intakes rather dramatically when a tank is bumping or cycling. I prefer not to stress the fish with constant ammonia and I prefer not to stress my muscles with any more water lifting than absolutely necesssary.

I just reviewed the topic.... what sort of filter do you have on the tank? How many gph? What sort of media?

Not yet. Sigh...



Yes, there are a lot of things I could try, but it takes money to buy an air pump, you know how I feel about heaters , and I guess I could try raising the PH, but what I don't understand is that there are ppl with lower ph than mine and their tanks cycle????




Yep, my hubby is also blind in his left eye, so he really can't see that well! LOL! My two filters are a Tetra Whisper and an Aqua-Tech and they produce 300gph together. The Tetra is a submersed filter and the Aqua-tech is a hob. Both filters have two filter pads. One holds carbon and the other is a black sponge-type that is called the bio-pad. I also have bio-stars in one of the filters and a bad on the tank floor.
I am definately going to start feeding every other day. It is hard to do, as both of my fish love to eat and hard to resist their little faces, but with the way the ammonia has started to climb, I am going to have to start doing that. I mean, the wcs I do don't seem to bother them; in fact, Hammy loves to play in the bubbles when I am pouring the fresh water in, LOL! However, the wcs are taking a toll on me! LOL!
The Stability is from Seachem and if you ask me, it does not help produce any BB's like it is supposed to. This is what it says on the bottle:
"Stability will rapidly and safely establish the aquarium biofilter in freshwater and marine systems, thereby preventing the #1 cause of fish death: 'new tank syndrome'. Stability is formulated specifically for the aquarium and contains a synergistic blend of aerobic, anaerobic, and facultative bateria which facilitate the breakdown of waste organics, ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate. The bacteria employed by Stability are non-sulfur fixing and will not produce toxic hydrogen sulfide. Stability is completely harmless to all aquatic organisms as well as aquatic plants, thus there is no danger of over use..."

If you ask me, it was a waste of money! It may have helped some people, but didn't do anything for me and I stopped using it as of today.

Nickie, I never used Stability, but I did use Cycle. It also was supposed to help, but I honestly couldn't say if it did or not, and probably with as many wcs as I had to do, it was just money "down the drain", literally.
I also haven't changed my filters, just rinsed them out in tank water, since the tank cycled. I had so much trouble getting it cycled that I'm afraid to do anything at all to upset the balance!

Now my water is cloudy again! AARRGGHH!!! I am SO TIRED OF WAITING ON THIS TANK TO CYCLE!!!!

Okay, I feel better now!

Nickie is the water going in the same temperature as the3 tank water? I presume so but I do know that bbs just drop back in a sudden cold dip. Gradual they cope but..all the w/cs might produce some fluctuations?

Otherwise, I can't think why its taking so long. It seems so much harder to cycle a tank with fish in.

Nickie, I think you're almost there! I went back and looked at my journal when I was cycling, and that was the last thing before the cycle settled. The cloudy water, that is. You could hardly see the poor fish, and I remember my son and his wife came over and he asked what was wrong with the tank. I tried to explain, but ...you know...its hard to explain to somebody who thinks his mom is off her rocker when she feeds oranges to fish.

My tank stayed cloudy for about 10 days, and when it cleared VOILA! it was cycled! I also cycled with the fish in the tank.

Keeping my fingers crossed for ya!

Yep, Imo, I always make sure the water going back in the tank is temp-matched to the water that came out or is left in the tank.

Vickie, you know, I went thru the "cloudy tank thingy" before. Weeks ago, my tank water was cloudy, then is cleared up. Now, it is cloudy again. I am not sure what it means. Day 48 now and ammonia has jumped back up to 2.0 this morning and no nitrites...

I'd forgotten that Nickie. But, you see, it was too early for your tank to have cycled then. Now, you said the water has that "smell" its supposed to have. I don't know, Nickie. Everything you are doing is right. I think the only thing that I did differently was when the ammonia started spiking late in the cycling process, instead of wcs every day, I dosed the water with Prime one day and did a big wc the next, keeping an eye on it carefully, though. I remember thats what I didn't like about Prime, was that even when the ammonia was detoxified, it would still read when you tested it. It made it very tricky as I would have to be sure and write down when I added the Prime so I wouldn't let it go over 24 hours.

If something doesn't happen soon, I'd think about getting the Biospira if I were you, although I'd bet its kind of expensive. This has got to be getting on your last nerve.

Jeez, Nickie...

You're trying to GET nitrites... and I'm trying to get RID of them!! What a pair!!
I can't believe how the cycling just stopped. It's like someone put a stick in the spokes of my fishcycle, and it came to a screaming halt.
It's worse for you, though, since your fish are in there - you have to watch all the levels so carefully, and you have the major task of all the frequent water changes.
Well, I'll keep checking in on you to see how things are (or aren't )progressing for you. I hope you get some good luck with it soon!!!!


Debbie

Thanks Vickie and Deb! I prolly will have to get some Bio-Spira or something. Oh well, I guess I must be doing something wrong or I would have had nitrites by now you would think. I actually DREAM about wcs now! LOL! Last night I had a dream that I had forgot to change the water and my fish were at the surface gasping for air. I actually got out of bed and ran into the study to check on them; then realized it was a dream and was actually 3:17am! Lord, help me!

Oh you poor thing!! What a nightmare!!
I don't blame you for getting up to check on them after that!
Once you have the tank cycled, the weekly wcs will be a dream!!

Debbie

Yep, if I ever get to that point! LOL!

BioSpira has some downfalls with it, too, though. It is a slurry of BB - a slurry in liquid. As you add the BioSpira, it will start to process the ammonia/nitrites even as it floats around in your tank's water, but the bacteria it contains do not necessarily attach to your filter media (and other places) immediately. It takes TIME.

Now that time is not very long - a week or so, but during that time, if you change out your water, you will be dumping that expensive BioSpira slurry down the drain. If you do NOT change out your water, your fish will be injured or killed.

Tough call.

I love using BioSpira in a fishless tank. Drop it in, drop in the ammonia and monitor. It does the job in a week or two. TEst the cycle out and go for the fish.

In a stocked tank, particularly one in which you have fish that are already, possibly, demonstrating injury and damage from cycling, it is not a good idea to expose them to even more. Cycling a tank the "oldfashioned way", with fish, can take upwards of 8 -10 weeks...... At 5-6 weeks, and no nitrites yet, you are a little behind in normal development, but still within belief that all is still working for you - just more slowly that average.

You do have a couple of options..... you could put your fish in a temporary container and run it on Zeolite - no cycle. With careful changes, monitoring and perhaps some Prime, your temporaryquarters can be kept at zero ammonia for the duration with little actual work. Then you can do a fishless cycle on the tank - eliminating the need for daily (twice daily?) water changes. If you do happen to find and use BioSpira, you can also just add it into the fishless cycle - and all should work within a week or two.

Haha, not so silly Nickie...when Moby was so ill, I actually slept on the couch to be in the same room with the tank so I could keep an eye on him. I think my son truly thought I had lost my mind, as they are "just fish" to him. Thankfully he doesn't live here so I don't have to hear that often, lol.

Maybe you could consider Daryl's idea of doing a fishless cycle to speed the process up a little if you have a QT tank? I think it would relieve some of the stress on you.

You know, that is a good idea. What I may do is this:

As we are moving at the end of this month, I might just buy a QT tank and order some zeolite to use in it. I don't have a lfs, so I would have to order it. I have never used it before, though, so will have to read up on that. Once we get moved, I will check the water at the new place as it is a well, not city water like I have now, and see what different params are in water as far as PH, ammonia, nitrate, etc. Then, I will set up the QT tank, will have to get a pretty big one as Jaws and Hammy can't be kept together, will have to divide it, then put the fish in it and do a fishless cycle with some Bio Spira and ammonia. I will have to read up on a fishless cycle, too, or ask Deb how to do it.

Today, Day 50:
Last night, before I went to bed, ammonia was between .25-.50. I only fed the fish once yesterday around 5:00. This morning, ammonia is back up to 2.0!!!! AARRGGHH!!! Will have to do another big wc in a few mins. No nitrites, but I swear, the nitrate is showing at .5! I was not imagining that the other night as this time, I checked the color in very good light and it is at .5. Not sure what that means????

Day 51:
Last night, ammonia was at .50 around 10:00pm. This morn, ammonia at 2.0 again.

Lots of good advice in here. I hope something works soon for ya Nickie. I've done a lot of reading up on fishless cycles, and plants are supposed to help push it along, so ya might want to consider that if you decide to go that way.

I guess I will have to wait and see what happens before making any decisions. There is also the money problem. I can't just go and pick some off the tree in the backyard, so right now, we are tapped and I guess I will just have to wait and keep doing those wcs...

This post has gotten long, too, and I am sure you are all sick and tired of hearing about this topic, so could a mod please close this? I am not going to reply here anymore and promise not to bore you all with my cycling probs anymore.