So we picked up a bottle of AmQuel+ to help protect our goldie during the cycle in our new 20 gallon tank. It bothers me a bit though because all of these conditioners say on the bottle that they should only be used in a well aerated tank. Now, the 20 gallon has 2 waterfall filters, and is a 'wide' tank (not tall one), so it has a decent surface area (see pic below).

But the AmQuel web page even goes so far as to say:

Source: http://www.novalek.com/kordon/amquel+/index.htm

As you can also see in the pic below, the larger filter creates bubbles that go pretty far down, so I feel we have good aeration (see comment later on this), but I don't know for sure. I guess that paragraph above is saying that its only a problem in an aquarium that's both overcrowded *and* only aerated by waterfall filters?

Is there any reason to be afraid of using AmQuel+ in our case?

pic link:
http://mysite.verizon.net/fredct/fishie2.jpg


P.S. The big waterfall we have now is nice, but its gonna drive us crazy because you can hear the sound of water tinkling all over our 1 BR apartment! Our bathroom has never gotten so much use . So I plan to add some more water to reduce the big drop. Are waterfall filters still effective when the drop is less and doesn't create a big bubble splash like that? On the flip side, is there any possible problem with a big bubble 'fall' under the water like that (just curious)?

I have never used AquaMel, so I can't help ya there. My tank has a waterfall type filter, too, and I have had it set up for almost 4 weeks. When I first set it up, the sound of the waterfall was very LOUD to me, LOL, but now, unless I am thinking about it, I can't even hear it.
I don't increase the amount of water to decrease the sound of the waterfall because I don't have an airpump or any bubble wands in my tank and the waterfall is the only way I have to add oxygen to my tank. As a matter of fact, I am going to buy another filter, bigger, with a waterfall to make sure I have enough oxygen in my tank. The second filter I am using along with my waterfall filter is a Whisper and it does not make ANY surface splash at all. Therefore, I believe I either need another waterfall filter, or a airpump and some bubble wands. It is really up to you as to how you want to set it up.
As far as water cond. are concerned, I have only used Nutrafin and Prime, both I like very much.

I really like your new tank! Congrats!!!!

I'm sure Amquel + will be just fine for you for now, but I think most of us use PRIME. Read up on it here: http://www.seachem.com/products/product_pages/Prime.html

No reason to be afraid Plenty of people use Amquel and Amquel plus just fine.

About the waterfall. I can't think of any detriment of having the fall except strong current. If it is very powerful your fish may avoid that area and not benefit from the full length of swimming space. On the other hand many fish really enjoy playing in falls and bubbles and currents. If you watch him your fish will show you which of these is the case.

As for oxygen - technically DO dissolved oxygen- it is extremely important yes but you will have plenty of DO in your tank for one fish only with just the smallest splash on the surface and can safely lessen that huge sound and fall if you wish to. Remember, oxygen enters the water at the surface only so only bubbles you can see on top of the water are able to create the necessary gas exchange to aerate the water underneath. As long as you can see some bubbles splashing the surface repeatedly on your 20 gallon long you will have enough DO entering for your one fish.

If you ever have to medicate your tank or if the temp of the water gets above about 72 you do need more aeration as heat and chemicals deplete DO.

He distinctly seems to enjoy it




Thanks. The only thing you said that's at all a modest problem for us is the temp of our tanks tend to be around 73 to 74. Should I take that to mean we should strongly consider an airstone/water pump, or only that maybe as slightly bigger-than-usual-waterfall (although maybe smaller than we have now) is maybe not a bad idea?

If you can stand the noise yes its prob a good idea to leave it as it is then. I'm sure that's plenty sufficient.

Most of the oxygen diffusion takes place at the surface (greatest surface area + largest oxygen concentration). But the diffusion of gas will occur anywhere if the physical conditions favor it (e.g. oxygen molecules within an underwater air bubble can diffuse into the surrounding water if there is "room," so to speak). If that weren't the case, then carbon dioxide diffusers for planted tanks would not work.

To the OP, there's nothing wrong with the splashing at the surface and the ensuing bubbles, but the primary function of the filter in increasing dissolved oxygen levels is circulation. Raising the water level in the tank will not likely adversely affect circulation. In fact, raising the water level might increase oxygenation because the flowrate through the filters will increase.

As far as I know the only 2 ways for oxygen to enter water are via photosynthesis or diffusion of atmospheric oxygen. I'm not sure what you mean by "room"except that it is true that oxygen can be held in the water until supplies are exhausted. It cannot without plant life be replensihed from under the water. In a pond without surface splash the algae and plant life produce enough oxygen in the day time to maintain oxygen sufficiency through the night. At night the oxygen levels decline because of the cessasation of photosynthesis. Oxygen levels in such ponds are at their lowest just before sunrise. Carbon dioxide diffusers work with the plants or algae's photosynthetic oxygen production.

Diffusion: "the spontaneous net movement of particles from an area of high concentration to an area of low concentration."

The area of low concentration has "room" for the molecules.

Therefore, if you have an oxygen rich air bubble surrounded by oxygen deficient water, there will be a tendency for the oxygen to diffuse into the water from the bubble. The water doesn't know that one area of increased oxygen concentration is the surface, and the other is a bubble... it's all physics.

Also, plants will also use oxygen during respiration. Photosynthesis is used to store energy from sunlight, respiration is used to make use of that stored energy. So, at night, plants can also release carbon dioxide as a byproduct of respiration.

Yeah, diffusion does happen but the amount of oxygen that is diffused from a regular airstone is minimal. The major benefit of the air stone is to agitate the surface (for oxygen exchange) and to keep the air at the top of the water fresh, particularly if the tank is covered and that restricts regular air flow.

Fredct, I think your filter provides adequate oxygen for your tank and your fish and it would not do any harm to increase the water level a bit if you wish to decrease the noise. Your tank is not overcrowded so I don't think that Amquel will lower your oxygen to dangerous levels.

I just took a look at the OP's tank pic, and he appears to have a common/comet goldfish. If that's the case, a 20 gal tank is nowhere near big enough to adequately house that fish. In optimal conditions (i.e. their natural habitats), goldfish grow VERY quickly, and can increase 6+ inches in length in just a few months time. And they will eventually grow to more than a foot in length (see video).

Large comet goldfish caught by fisherman

Granted, that fish can very well survive for 20+ years in that tank. So if that's the advice you want to give (that 20 gals is enough to keep the fish alive), then so be it. But saying that it is "not overcrowded" is an outright lie.

And for the record, my goldfish are kept in two outdoor ponds (one ~5500 gallons, the other around ~8000 gallons). And I only keep commons (and some comets). In my opinion, most other types of goldfish were bred only for their retardations.

"And for the record, my goldfish are kept in two outdoor ponds (one ~5500 gallons, the other around ~8000 gallons)."

That's fantastic that you are able to provide your goldfish such an excellent environment, however two large ponds are beyond the resources of most of our members. A 20 gallon tank is adequate for fredt's fish for the moment, granted fredct may find that his fish grows more than he anticipated in which case it would be necessary to rehouse it. Not all commons and comets grow humungous, a lot is dependant on their genetic heritage.

"And I only keep commons (and some comets). In my opinion, most other types of goldfish were bred only for their retardations."

Of course they are bred for their "retardations" as you call them. They are selectively bred to accentuate mutations such as wens, deep bodies, telescope eyes, etc. What is the point of your statement? If you are trying to rubbish other varieties of goldfish then you are entitled to your opinion, you might also want to consider other peoples feelings when you call their fish retards. I hope you are not trying to be contriversial.

"But saying that it is "not overcrowded" is an outright lie."

Are you calling me a liar? Once again please be careful with your choice of words, it is my opinion that fredct's tank is not overcrowded, obviously you do not agree but lets not get nasty about it.

Finally Yer, please take a moment to consider what you want to gain by participating in a forum like this. We like to be friendly, helpful and tolerant whenever we can but we won't tolerate continued rudeness.