Now, I've read that, when feeding medicated food, you shouldn't feed your fish other food. Is this because the regular food will do something to the medicated food and make it not work or is this simply because the fish will go for the regular food over the medicated food? If it is the second reason, would it be possible to mix the medicated food in with a food your fish love to encourage them to eat the medicated food?

Hello

I'm not an expert, but when my Smokey was on medicated food, I asked if I could feed him some peas, too. This is what Jack of Hearts told me...

"By feeding both antibac food and regular food, you are actually doing more harm than good as you will create super bacterias that are immune to the antibac food."

Better safe than sorry, I say.

Debbie

ah ha! Okay. So, it does have to do with affecting quality of treatment (or in this case, possibly future treatments....) vs. just simply them choosing their favorite food over the medicated food. Thanks!

By giving other food in conjunction with med food you are diluting the dosage - it is in maintaining a constant level of medication that the bacteria is killed. A bit like if you took your antibiotics one-day-on and one-day-off you wouldn't get on top of the infection, because the level of medication in your blood stream would not be constant.

I don't mean to disagree with anyone because I do understand, fully, the arguments behind this and they make sense and I will attempt to follow them, but, my goldies just never did like pellets anyway and what if this one is just too sick to want to eat anything but the most tempting food, if even that? She almost completely ignored even the brine shrimp last night. Wouldn't it be worth "diluting" the dose or taking a chance of the possible creation of a stronger strain of bacteria by mixing the medicated food with tasty food if it's the only way to get the fish to eat it? I ordered medicated food and am having it sent overnight delivery, but last night, my poor baby has lost almost complete use of her left side, is listing to the right at about a 45 degree angle and, after 4 days in Maracyn-2, just seems to be getting worse, not better. She has reduced the amount she swims to just one short lap in a tiny circle only once in an hour or more and then she just lays on her side and she ate very little last night. I am all but certain now that it's an internal infection that's not being touched at all by the external medication and it's just getting worse. Since we should soak pellets first before feeding to allow for expansion anyway, I was thinking of soaking them in canned clam or tuna fish juice. This would give a tasty, tempting smell and flavor without diluting. Any thoughts?

Some medicated food tastes good(medigold) and some more stronger ones like metromeds aren't as appealing. Which medicated food are you using and what are you treating for? When my oranda Sash got dropsy, I fed both my goldies metromed exclusively for 30 days. Despite the fact that Sash had very little appetite, the little that he did eat started to work in only a couple of days. I rember a thread where a guy had a fish that showed the beginning stages of dropsy and I told him to get metromeds. By the time he got them, the fish got sicker and would not eat it so he(very smart of him) ground it up and force fed the metromed to his sick fish and the fish recovered within a couple of days.

Well, I did not buy a goldfish-specific medicated food because I wasn't aware of names/brands other than Medigold, which, after reading the ingredients, seemed a little, "tame," sort of holistic, if you will, with ingredients that just didn't seem like they'd do anything, and I felt like I wanted something stronger and I needed to buy something/anything ASAP, so I bought a food that stated it was "anti-bacterial." Let's see. It's Jungle Labs Anti-Bacterial Medicated Fish Food. It's medicating ingredients appear to be Sodium sulfathiazole-- 2.3%, Nitrofurazone-- 0.13%. Medicated Food Does anyone have any experience with this food or comments on the treating capabilities of the medicating ingredients ? I am worried, because of the listing and inability to stay fully upright, my poor goldy may have the beginnings, or threats, at least, of the beginnings of Dropsy and that scares me. But, maybe it's not because, either she doesn't have any bloating/swelling yet, or I just can't tell because she's a pearlscale, but then, maybe the swelling is just starting, i.e., the listing. Yeah? Anyway, I'm encouraged to hear that even when Dropsy has set in, even a small amount of medicated food will kick butt. I was going to ask about force feeding too. I would love to have a procedure for this.

Rick's formulas are tried and true, and I wouldn't use anything else. I've had the best luck with my sick goldies using ONLY Medigold or Metrogold, depending on the ailment.

Well, I just read more info on Medigold and it says that it has three medications in it, but only lists the tasty stuff like brineshrimp, krill, etc. This wasn't the same ingredient description that I read before, but still, maybe because no one is listing the specific meds, is why I was assuming it didn't have strong stuff in it. Does anyone know exactly what meds are in it?

Sulfadimethoxine, Ormetropin Sulfa, Oxolinic Acid, & Kannamycin.

Thanks Jack! I wish the sites I'd looked at would've said that. I would've bought the Medigold... ######! Well, so, I'm stuck with this other food, which, with the overnight shipping, cost a small fortune. So, does anyone have comments on the treatment success of the medications in that product?

Here's the thing - the Jungle food, from what I remember, prevents bacteria from progressing, but doesn't actually kill it like medigold or metromeds. I hope someone will jump in if I have this wrong.....
I think at this point, that worrying about the taste of the food is not important - your fish's loss of appetite is due to illness, and often offering something 'tasty' won't make any difference to that. The best way to deal with feeding in this case is to lift your fish gently just above the water line - the fish naturally gapes when it hits the air and you can either drop a pellet (softened in tank water) into the open mouth or use a small syringe.
I'm wondering what the others think about the possibility of parasites in conjunction with bacteria?


PS BTW - I just noticed that your reading for nitrate earlier was zero. This doesn't sound right in a cycled tank. Can you think of any reason for this?

Shoot! It figures that I'd buy something that doesn't do the full job... shoot.... of course, preventing spread is, at least, something, I guess... then I can get the good stuff... I wish someone had answered this question when I first asked it before I bought the food... Thanks for instructions on force feeding... I'm thinking that's what I'll do in the beginning. Make sure to get that food in and not take chances on her doing it on her own. Then when she starts feeling better, I can trust her to eat it on her own....
Parasites? Well, I'm pretty sure there is no external parasites, but internal... it could be.... Now, I ordered only anti-bacterial food, but does the Medigold treat parasites, or do I need something else for that?

Re: nitrates at zero... I just assumed that all readings are supposed to always be zero, so I make sure that this is where they're kept. Am I not supposed to be keeping nitrates at zero?

Jungle anti-bac food contains sodium sulfalhiazole (an ingredient in the Trisulfa antibiotic mix but not on its own antibiotic) and nitrofurazone. These ingredients are bacteriostatic prohibiting the growth of bacteria but not killing them. Medigold as JofH listed contains Kanamycin which is bacteriocidal meaning it kills the bacteria dead. The inclusion of oxolinic acid in Medigold and medikoi is also an added good healing tool.

The thing with the bacteriostatic drugs is that they rely on the strength of the fishes remaining immunity (phagocytic cells) to pick up where the drugs left off. So those bacteria that are rendered inactive by the Jungle meds for example then have to be processed out of the fish via the kidney. This is extra work for an already sick fish. That may be fine but if the fish is really very sick it may not have this ability in good control. This is when medigold/koi containing kanamyci can be most useful. As a bacteriocidal drug it kills the bacteria so that they can pass through the fishes system effortlessly.

Thanks for the explanation Trinket! Where were you before I bought this dumb food?! Why oh why would anyone put a medication in something that only does half the job? Rhetorical question, but still..... pointless. Also, I'm coming to find out that none of my LFS don't seem to carry Medigold. Is this one of those specialty things that can only be ordered online?

I was just picking up on what Pixiefish pointed out. But bacteristaic drugs are actually not bad at all. They encourage the fish to use its natural immunity. bacteriocidal drugs kill everything in their path so good bacteria too. Its really a case by case rationale. If your fish is not very bad I'd go with a bacteriostatic and if the fish is seriously ill then the other. Everything is the owners choice. We cannot see your fish and after gathering the evidence, hearing the options you make the choice for your patient

www.goldfishconnection.com

Yes, it's good to shoot for zero nitrates, but usually impossible to keep at on a normal, everyday basis. If your cycled tank is staying "close" to zero nitrates, what's your secret? Even after large water changes, I never see Nitrates below 5.0.

I couldn't say for sure, but my guess would be that I'm so paranoid of high readings and toxicity and sickness (see what good all that worry has done! my fishy goes and gets sick somewhere else anyway! lol!) that I way understock. I only have three small goldies in a 60 gallon and do 30% weekly water changes. I don't even give anything a chance to even register I think! :rofllol!

So, goldfishconnection.com is the ONLY place a person can get Medigold? This Rick needs to get our LFS to start selling it! Well, I need to call them first thing in the a.m. to see if I can get them to overnight the Medigold. I don't think my poor baby can handle much more of this. Every day so far this week, I've been sick at heart all day long while at work worrying over whether I'll be going home to see her floating. It's killing me and I just want this thing fixed whatever the cost!

Rick will hook you up. He is wonderful!

I'm certainly hoping so Lola! Thanks! I am really appreciative of all the information and advice everyone has given. I feel much better armed now to deal with this situation. I just hope my poor Apricot has the strength to see this thing through!

Lynda,
Where are you from?

I, first, wanted to thank everyone who took a valuable minute of their time to help me with my problem and answer my many questions and educate me just that much more in the successful keeping of our beautiful goldies. And, almost more importantly, taking a few minutes to hold my hand, give me a shoulder to lean on and a kind ear to listen to my worried concern. Just knowing that I have someone who understands and cares is so important. For those of you who took the time, Fishyfish, Pixiefish, Jack of Hearts, Lolafish, Nickie and especially Trinket for her wonderful, detailed explanation of different anti-bacterial medicated food, thank you so much! Second, I have my Medigold on its way via overnight (not cheap, but aren't our beautiful friends worth it?!), assisted in my choice by Rick, who took all the time necessary, listening to all of Apricot's symptoms, to help me decide between Medigold and Metromed. Apricot is such a strong little soldier, still fighting this thing with everything she's got. I am, by nature, a pragmatist, expecting and being prepared for the worst and pleasantly surprised when better happens, but, between Apricot's strength and Rick's wonder food, I am cautiously optimistic at beating this thing. I will keep you informed of the progress.

Lynda,
I am sure your fish will be fine! The reason I asked where you were from is because I have some medi-gold and I was gonna send some to you. However, you have already ordered some from Rick, sooo...LOL! Medi-Gold is good for 6 months and it is always good to have on hand for when these nasties pop up with our fish. I had to feed my fish medi-gold for a bacterial poo problem they were having and one of my fish also was having a fin problem, red streaks in his tail fins, broken tail fin...I'm not sure how his tailfin broke. Anyway, his red streaks are gone now and both my fish's poo is back to normal. I wish you and Apricot the best of luck!!!

Oops! Sorry Nickie! I missed this reply somehow. I'm in Los Angeles, West LA, to be specific, and no matter whether you are close or whether I've already ordered something, your offer is so generous and appreciated, but as I have ordered something, we'll see how it goes. Thanks again!

Hi Lynda

I spell my daughter's name the same as yours. But that's not why I'm writing.
I have the Jungle Labs Anti-Bac food, and I used it when my Smokey had Columnaris. I found it to work very well for him! He was on death's door when I came to Koko's. But JoH and Trinks came to the rescue and he's fine now!
So, in my opinion, you didn't get "junk", because it worked for me.

Debbie

Fishy, was that all you gave Smokey, just medicated food, or did you use a medication in the water as well? Because, if it's all you gave him, then I would be more heartened, but, if you also used meds in the water..... but, nevertheless, the Jungle Labs is certainly a good start in the right direction until I can get the Medigold. If I can't kill it, I'll settle for stopping it in its tracks, at least. As the saying goes, "it can't hurt to try it."

If you have a few hours to spare , you can read Smokey's thread and see what else was done. http://www.kokosgoldfish.invisionzone.com/...showtopic=62690
Before I found Koko's, I had no idea what was wrong with him, and I had treated the tank with tetracycline, fed anti-parasite food, and used paraste clear tablets. I believe it was the anti-bac food that finally helped him. I don't believe I used any other medications at the same time as the food.

I wish you the best with your fish!

Debbie

Thanks Fishy. I've been reading some of the thread you linked, but, it will be an hour, yeah! Best of all, though, is just to read that all turned out well. That sort of encouragement means a lot.

My heart is sick. I got home last night to find that Apricot was in full stage Dropsy. And worse, she won't eat anymore. I got my Jungle Lab anti-bacterial medicated food; this is temporary until my Medigold comes, which should be tonight, so I had to force feed Apricot. She only spit it out. Even when I got it in her mouth and kept her sitting in the net for a long time afterwards making sure she didn't spit it out and it was so long I was sure she should've swallowed it, but inevitably, no matter how long I kept her in the net and watched her to make sure she didn't spit out the food, as soon as I let her free, out came the food. How do I treat a fish that not only won't eat, but won't even keep down food when it's shoved down her throat? On one hand, I don't want to give up quite yet in light of the fact that the Medigold is coming tonight and also when she does attempt to swim, seeing how hard she's trying to beat this thing and her poor little eyes searching about as she lays there like she's so desperately asking why this is happening to her, but how long do I force this poor thing to put up with being so sick? How long do I fight this? How long do I make her live being so sick? When does a person say enough is enough and let the poor animal go to its rest? I'm sick at heart to see her suffering like this. I want to make her well, but at the same time, I want her to be at peace. I don't know what to do. And I'm going out of town for Thanksgiving next Thursday through Sunday. How do I take care of a sick fish when I can't be there, assuming she lives that long. I guess I'm saying this, yeah, for support, for a shoulder to cry on, but also to ask others who have had fish get really bad and were they really able to bring the fish back? And how do you force feed a fish that refuses to swallow the food? Or should I just do the kind thing and euthanize her? I need to hear from people who can tell me whether I have a chance at this.

If everyone could confine their replies to the other thread it will save any confusion - two threads on the same problem can get chaotic. Okes?

Sorry Pixie. That was sort of my fault. I had originally asked about my sick fish, but wasn't getting any real response and, as I was desperate, I changed it up to questions about medication where I got a lot more response. My fault.

Don't worry - just trying to save you confusion and crossed wires