I have been very, very careful about my goldfish and their environment and read every article on your site and others and researched extensively before setting up my tank. I was patient and took my time. I cycled first before getting any fish and I test every single week. The other two goldies are disgustingly healthy. I have been racking my brain about what may have happened. Since I keep the water pristine, I feel like damage is the culprit, especially when it seems to be on only one side of the body, whether by rough handling (yes, I admit, I did cup her (I call it a "her," I don't know what she really is) underwater, very gently, a few times while doing water changes - she's so friendly!) or a cut or scrape from decorations and, I have to be honest, in racking my brain, I do seem to remember looking at her very closely right after I first got her, on the same side that now has the problems, noticing a very small, single scale-size anomaly, but it was so small and really just seemed so insignificant, so I just sort of dismissed it. She had been acting "under the weather" for 2-3 days and spent most of her time laying on the substrate inside a resin rock decoration before I finally decided something was wrong and quarantined her. I have had her in Maracyn-2; this evening will make the third day. The symptoms almost make it seem like it's a combination of diseases, which I suppose can happen. At times she acts like she's going to make it, then other times, she acts like she's ready to give up. Please give me any additional info on treatment, guesses as to cause or disease(s) and the likelihood of saving her. Thanks!!!

Ammonia Level? 0ppm
Nitrite Level? 0ppm
Nitrate level? 0ppm
Ph Level, (If possible,KH and GH and chloramines)? I do not test for ph, but I do use a dechlorinator.
Ph Level out of the Tap? I do not test for ph.
Tank size (How many Gals)and How long has it been running? 60 gallons, pre-cycled and running 2 months before adding fish.
What is the name and size of the filter/s? UG with two 1140 Penguin reverse powerheads
How often do you change the water and how much? 30% once a week with a substrate siphoning
How many fish in the tank and their size? 1 ryukin, 1 pearlscale, 1 oranda all 1.5-2 inches (not including tail) and I have had them for 1 month
What kind of water additives or conditioners? dechlorinator/stress coat once a week with water change
Any medications added to the tank? Sick fish has been moved to a quarantine tank with Maracyn-2.
Add any new fish to the tank? No
What do you feed your fish? Soaked flakes, frozen brine shrimp, various fruits, i.e., tangerine, strawberry, kiwi
Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt", No visible ich/parasites. No flashing.
Bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? Quite ragged/frayed tail fin on left side only. No white fungus, but one small area, almost at the base of the tail, has a pinkish tinge to it. "Pearls" on skin on left back side of belly first seemed slightly enlarged/smoothed out and now show very small signs of pocking/pitting. Not really any evidence of a fungusy/slimy substance; however, while skin does not have typical septicemic red streaks, one of the first things I noticed was a reddening (not extreme) in the side area right behind the gill and now, some of the left side area has more of a blotchy pinkish coloration. It reminds me of the pink mold some foods get, but, it's difficult to tell whether this is "on" the skin or "in" the skin as the skin doesn't appear to really have slimy/cottony patches. All of the real symptoms/damage seems to be to the left side. Dorsal fins was fully clamped prior to moving to the quarantine tank, but now it is only "flopped" over halfway.
Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc..? Appetite is still excellent and she will swim ocassionally, but she's quite lethargic and spends probably 80% of its time at the top of the water (water is well oxygenated, so it's not lack of oxygen). Gill movement seems a little fast.

could you get a pic of her?

Yes, I know, a picture is worth a thousand words. Two problems, one I'm at work right now and two, I think, I'm not sure, but I think that the last time I used my camera, my batteries were dead and they are going to take 24 hours to recharge. But, I'll see what I can do in this regard....

You mentioned that she was spending time in an ornament. Is this a hollow ornament? If so, sometimes, stagnate water can build up in those and spread bacteria to your fish. How often do you take them out and clean them? Good luck with your fish and welcome to KoKo's!!!

do you have any type of gravel? if so, do you have a UG filter?

Yes those hollow ornaments accumulate pockets of toxic gas just like undergravel filters will .I think this may be something that the fish was harboring before you got her. Incubation period for many infections and diseases can be 4 weeks. Did you get all the fish from the same store/tank? That would be useful to know.

Septicemia you mentioned comes in several varieties not just the streaked bloody tail type. There is internal septicemia for example where you can see the inner organs inflamed through the skin. It can look pinky -or it can be completely unnoticeable. Aeromonas infections are common in crowded store tanks & often show a pink belly as do organ damage.

Maracyn and water based meds are not really tremendously sucessful in my opinion with internal bacterial infections or damage and you would be better to try some medicated antibiotic/ antibacterial food that goes right to the heart of the problem. Medigold is one such food.

Now, these are some types of responses that I was hoping to receive. Thank you and any more information on specific little details like this would be fantastic!

So, yes, the rock decorations are hollow and they do like hanging out in there, and I did not know about the possibility of stagnate buildup, so that is interesting and good to know, but I do remove all the decorations completely out of the water with the weekly water change and finger-rub off any tangible evidence of "slimy" buildup.

To answer Warzone's question, yes, I have a UG with a 3-inch layer of 1mm gravel.

It is also interesting to know that typical incubation time for infections can be around 4 weeks, which, coincidentally (or not) is just how long it took for this to set in after I bought the fish. Yes, all the fish came from the same store, but not the same tank. Each were in their own same-species tank. But, as I said, I did notice that tiny little anomaly on her skin, which is now ground zero for the worst part of the external damage, well, except for the fin rot. And, as mentioned, all damage is limited to the left side of the body, further indicating an external wound, although, as Trinket mentioned, the pinkish tinge could very well be an internal infection, which does seem to visually sort of appear to be the case. Can an internal disease be caused by an external disease or would it be more likely that there are two diseases going on?

As for medicated food, I looked at several stores in my area, including the reputable LFS, and nobody seems to carry medicated food. I can order it online, but I just wondered if the the lag in receipt time would be worth it, but if the external medications are absolutely not going to treat the internal infection, then I will have to order the Medigold. But, I worry about "regular" fish food. To make sure my goldy would eat, I've been spoiling her with brine shrimp, and when I gave regular flakes last night, she kind of ignored it. Is the medication in the Medigold different than the medication in Maracyn? What if I thawed the brine shrimp and mixed in some Maracyn? This would be more tempting food and I would have it immediately. If not Maracyn, would another type of medication be more appropriate? Would there be any possible negative results by mixing medications, that is, external Maracyn and internal something else?

I have some Medi-Gold and it is sinking pellets. My fish loved them and gobbled them up.

I sure do hope that is the case with my goldy. When I attempted to feed regular goldfish pellets, all of my goldies just looked at it like, "What the crap is this?" They ignored it completely and wouldn't eat it. And this was right from the beginning; the first feeding, so I can't say they were spoiled by being fed other "yummier" food first. Hopefully, the manufacturers realize that sick fishies don't want to eat anyway so they gotta make their medicated food extra yummy smelling and tasty.

Fish do seem to love Medigold. Its a very good cure and possibly the only cure for internal septicemia (along with your perfect water)

I had the same problem with my moor when I switched from flakes to sinking pellets. He would not touch them at first. I just kept giving him a few each day along with his favorite foods and he eventually figured out that they were food, too. Sometimes, if a fish is used to one certain kind of food, it takes them a while to adjust. I did decrease his fav foods when I fed him, too, to make sure he was still hungry enough to try the pellets. That seem to work for me.

Well, I read the ingredients of the Medigold and it has brine shrimp and krill and good tastin' stuff, but I screwed up and ordered some other food and as I paid big bucks to have it shipped overnight, I can't say "never mind" to it.... shoot! Well, this is why I'm askin' questions on here... just wish I had time to learn at a convenient moment and not in an emergency situation... well, we live and learn, that's how we become experts, but sadly, it's usually at some poor little goldy's expense... <sigh>

My heart is sick. I got home last night to find that Apricot was in full stage Dropsy. And worse, she won't eat anymore. I got my Jungle Lab anti-bacterial medicated food; this is temporary until my Medigold comes, which should be tonight, so I had to force feed Apricot. She only spit it out. Even when I got it in her mouth and kept her sitting in the net for a long time afterwards making sure she didn't spit it out and it was so long I was sure she should've swallowed it, but inevitably, no matter how long I kept her in the net and watched her to make sure she didn't spit out the food, as soon as I let her free, out came the food. How do I treat a fish that not only won't eat, but won't even keep down food when it's shoved down her throat? On one hand, I don't want to give up quite yet in light of the fact that the Medigold is coming tonight and also when she does attempt to swim, seeing how hard she's trying to beat this thing and her poor little eyes searching about as she lays there like she's so desperately asking why this is happening to her, but how long do I force this poor thing to put up with being so sick? How long do I fight this? How long do I make her live being so sick? When does a person say enough is enough and let the poor animal go to its rest? I'm sick at heart to see her suffering like this. I want to make her well, but at the same time, I want her to be at peace. I don't know what to do. And I'm going out of town for Thanksgiving next Thursday through Sunday. How do I take care of a sick fish when I can't be there, assuming she lives that long. I guess I'm saying this, yeah, for support, for a shoulder to cry on, but also to ask others who have had fish get really bad and were they really able to bring the fish back? And how do you force feed a fish that refuses to swallow the food? Or should I just do the kind thing and euthanize her? I need to hear from people who can tell me whether I have a chance at this.

Lynda,
That is really a question only you can answer, Hon. If it were me and I thought there was no way to save her, then I would get some clove oil and put her to sleep. There is a med called Maracyn2 that you can get for the water. That, raising the temp to about 80 degrees and salt to .03% could help. However, a fish really needs to eat the medicated food to help fight the dropsy from the inside. Do you have a syringe? You could make a paste out of the medicated food and force feed her with a syringe. Let us know what you decide. I know it isn't an easy choice to make. Also, dropsy is very contagious, so you need to get her in a QT tank if you haven't already or your other fish will get sick.

I know, I know... it is only something I can decide and it's killing me to know I have to make the choice. No, I don't have a syringe, not quite sure how to get something like that, but really, unless the syringe somehow gets it down further in the throat, and I suppose it could, so that they can't spit it back up, getting the food in her mouth isn't the problem. It's making her swallow it. No matter how long I held her thinking that she surely would've swallowed the food by now, as soon as I let her go, out spit the food. This is my dilemma. I know if I could just get her to keep the food down, she would have a chance, but if I can't get any meds in her, there's when the decision making time starts to happen.

Hi Lynda,

I'm so sorry that your poor fish is worse today. I'm also not sure where you can get syringes, but possibly at your lfs in the bird section maybe. I know I've seen one in the "baby" section at the CVS that I shop at. I don't know if it's small enough though, I never took a good look at it.

I wonder about the food though. If she keeps it in her mouth while you hold her, could some of the medication be coming out of the food - so she's at least getting something? That would be for someone else to answer.

We all know how heart wrenching it is too see your beloved fish so sick, and not know what to do for it. Personally, with the meds coming tonight, I think I'd keep trying the Jungle Labs until it got there, and hope the little darling will eat the Medigold.

Best of luck to you and your fish.

Debbie

I never really thought about the fact that just holding the food in her mouth might release some of the meds into her system. It does make sense. I would like to hear more on that theory from anyone who might know. Well, last night I soaked the small pellets whole, but then squished 'em in my fingers before putting them in her mouth so they were small pieces, but I thought tonight I would try to make a total paste in the chance that even the tiniest particle might accidentally slide down her throat. I'm not giving up yet, I will at least give it through the weekend. And if it weren't for Thanksgiving, this wouldn't be quite the dilemma that it now makes it....

Hi there and so sorry to hear about the down-turn. I will PM Trinket who is more experienced than me for advice but in the meantime I just wanted to clarify some earlier advice from Nickie so that you can act now

'There is a med called Maracyn2 that you can get for the water. That, raising the temp to about 80 degrees and salt to .03% could help. However, a fish really needs to eat the medicated food to help fight the dropsy from the inside. Do you have a syringe? You could make a paste out of the medicated food and force feed her with a syringe. Let us know what you decide. I know it isn't an easy choice to make. Also, dropsy is very contagious, so you need to get her in a QT tank if you haven't already or your other fish will get sick. '

If you have a QT it will be easier to treat her; not because dropsy is contagious - it isn't a disease in itself, more a condition resulting from a bacterial/parasitical load. Aquarium Salt will not help - you need to use Epsom salt which has the effect of drawing fluids from the fish and may just hold things steady-ish for a little longer.
What to do first:
Put her in a QT bucket/tank where the water level is temp matched and not so deep as to put pressure on her. Perhaps Maracyn may help but as Nickie says the fish really needs meds on the inside to combat dropsy. Dose the Epsom at 1 quarter tsp p/10gals. Add a heater and slowly raise the heat. With one proviso - heat without meds can sometimes escalate the bacterial infection so try to judge things according to whether or not you have access to Maracyn. You can get a syringe (and epsom) from any pharmacy and you could try to mush up the pellets and squirt them in.
Meanwhile I'll Pm Trinket for you who is on a very different time-line and hope she has some more expert advice.
Lastly - look at her closely. Do you see any red streaking in the fins? I wouldn't euth her now. Try to see if she can be saved then you'll be sure you've tried your utmost.
Fingers crossed

Is she so sick that she won't eat any food at all? What about her favorite foods, will she eat that? If she still has some appetite for foods that are more appealing, then you still have a chance. I don't know about Jungle Lab food but I know that Medigold is still pretty appealing for goldies so she may eat it. As for force feeding, it seems to work better with some goldies but not with all. When I was feeding my ryukin Jack Medigold I took him out and put him in a mixing bowl and tried to feed him by hand. He totally freaked out and spit out the food. I put him back in the tank. It wasn't that he wouldn't eat the Medigold, which he did. It was just that the other healthy fish, Sash ate most of the food. However a fish does not have to eat much medigold to get it's effect. I think the Medigold pretty much tastes like their regular Progold(which is tasty), so unless a fish has totally lost all its desire to eat, should eat it.

As for the dropsy, you say that she has full blown dropsy? She is completely pineconed?

I have had her in a 10 gallon quarantine tank for one week and have had Maracyn-2 in the water for this entire time. I don’t have a thermometer, but the water is at least as warm as my other tank, which naturally stays at around 73 or so, yeah, I know that’s a little warm, but short of a chiller, that’s just a regular temp. Anyway, different issue.

I’ve read about using Epsom salt but didn’t know what it did. Again, I wish I’d understood this sooner. I will get a thermometer and I need more Maracyn and I will add some Epsom salt. But, to what temperature do I raise the water? No, she never had, or has, any red streaking. All she ever had was an overall pinkish tinting to areas of her body behind her gills and on her tail, and I don’t want to get my hopes up too much, but I have to say as far as the tail, it almost looks like the Maracyn-2 may be working there because last night I didn’t see much pink on/in the tail.

I didn’t try feeding any favorite foods, just the medicated pellets. She can’t really even swim anymore, at least enough to chase/graze for food and as for keeping it in her mouth/swallowing it, I don’t know if it’s cuz she doesn’t like it, regardless, or whether she just can’t swallow it. Yes, as for the dropsy, last night, by the time I got home, it had become full-blown. She is completely pineconed.

Aim to raise it to 80 but do it gradually. No more than 2 degrees per hour. It's important to keep the increase slow and steady and not allow any drop once you've started.
It's a good thing that there is no streaking so far - that is usually a sign that the organs are starting to fail. If the Maracyn has already been in and she's pineconed inspite of it, I would think it very important to persevere with the hand feeding because once an infection has become systemic, getting the meds inside is what is needed.

Yeah, well, there is no "streaking," as in bright red streaks, but I do think there is septicemia because there has been pinkish blotching that almost seems more under the skin, but then, that was there when she was still eating. So, the actual streaking comes when organs begin to fail? Is that, then the time for euthansia? Is the temperature raise with, without or regardless of Epsom salt? In other words, is epsom salt still suggested?

Absolutely epsom is needed. It eases the pressure on the fishes organs by drawing out excess fluids. Once they are pineconed they are having trouble expelling salts and maintaining the electrolyte balance. (It is for this reason that aquarium salt is not recommended)
Streaking is visible in the fins - you would be able to see the veins begin to 'streak' red. Try not to panic and euth her out of fear - you may be able to save her. I lost a fish myself to dropsy once and to this day regret letting the vet put her down. It took ages for the anaesthesia to work and I realised she was stronger than I'd thought.

This is exactly what I'm doing. Considering euthanasia out of fear. I have a million things going through my head about whether to euthanize. One, I owe it to her to take her out of her misery and do it, or, I owe it to her to do everything I can for her and not do it. Two, I can't handle this heartbreaking stress and anxiety anymore, but, what? I should just kill an animal because it becomes inconvenient to me? And then there's the Thanksgiving problem. If she does survive, up to then, what do I do because I can't leave her in a 10 gallon tank for 4 days. The water needs to be changed more often than that. But, even if I could deal with the water/ammonia situation by buying some sort of large tub, what about feeding? Maybe, if she starts getting better, she'll be eating on her own, but what if she isn't and still needs to be hand-fed? I nurse her that far just to not be able to finish it? I'm so torn.

Sweety, I think the very first thing you need to do is calm down. From there, all you can do is one thing at a time. Treat her today - for today... and don't worry about next week before it gets here.
You realize that you're acting out of fear, and that's understandable and easy to do. Heat up the tank, get the epsom in there, and get the medication in her. Then go from there.
We're all pulling for you, Hon.

Debbie

You are right Fishy. I do need to stop worrying so much and just do it one step at a time. Part of this is guilt because, in thinking back, I recognized soooo many warning signs that, if I had not dismissed them and took care of it right there and then my poor fish wouldn't be suffering like this now. And the guilt of my arrogance in thinking that I was above this sort of thing because I kept perfect water conditions. But, I also have to tell myself that this is a learning experience. Sadly, it has to be at the cost of the life of an animal (maybe), but I definitely have learned many things by this.

Don't beat yourself up over it though. So many things in life are clear in hindsight. It's not worth punishing yourself over.
Right now you're doing everything you can for her, and that's the important thing. Keep yourself focused on her getting better, and what needs to be done to get her there.

"Fins crossed" for a speedy recovery!!

Debbie

Okay, so, 1/4 tsp. epsom salts per 10 gallons of water.
Raise temperature slowly to 80 degrees.
Keep medicating the water with Maracyn-2.
Try to get her to eat the Medigold.
Don't get sad and panic.

Got it

Good, you are doing everything that you should be doing.

Also do frequent water changes to keep the water parameters as close to perfect as possible and replace the Maracyn that you take out with the water changes.

She pineconed all of a sudden? Did she show early stages of dropsy at all where the scales werent flush? The metromed would probably have been better because they are stronger and they work phenomenal for early stages of dropsy. The only thing with metromed is that I don't think it's not as appealing to fishes as medigold so a sick fish may not eat it where they may eat medigold. If she does not eat the medigold, you will have to force feed her. You can maybe grind them up into tiny pieces or powder. You must get the meds into her system.

Good luck Lynda. We are all behind you and your fishie.

Today was the most horrific, worrisome, sad day I have experienced since my sweet Apricot first got sick. And the thing is, I just wasn't exactly sure why. I have found over the years, that I tend to be a bit, psychic/intuitive, whatever, about things, but I haven't always figured out how to consciously acknowledge what I sense, but I now know why today was such a sad day. I must have been sensing that Apricot had decided to take all my grief away by finally giving up her brave struggle and letting go of life. I came home to find her sweet little lifeless body floating and, quite frankly, looking more peaceful than she has looked in the last few days and that peacefulness actually made me feel better. I am glad that she is no longer suffering and I am so proud of her for the brave fight she fought. I have included some pictures of the little scamp, but she was always so quick and bubbly when she was alive and healthy that all of my pictures aren't much more than a blur. I could never get her to sit still for a second. And, oh how she loved to ride the (filter) waves. She was an action junkie. But, these orange and white blurs, and my memories, are all I have left of my sweet pudgeball. You are free now little Apricot. And thank you to everyone who gave such good information and had such big shoulders for me to lean and cry on. Thank you.

Oh Lynda, I am so terribly sorry for your loss.
Rest in peace sweet Apricot, knowing how greatly you were loved.
Best wishes to you, Lynda. May you eventually find comfort in her memory. It's so hard to lose a pet.
She was an adorable fish.
God Bless

Debbie

Thank you Debbie. You were one of the good shoulders I had for support and I will remember that.

Oh I'm so sorry Lynda for your loss.

Rest in peace Apricot.

What a shame. I'm so sorry you lost her. You'd tried very hard to do all the right things.
Sometimes if one can't get hold of the 'heavy guns' fast enough, the infection escalates very quickly. With aggressive infections only med food or baytril injections target the infection specifically enough. Once a fish cannot eat, trying to save them becomes even harder. I lost my own fish 'Calypso' in the same way. We can't get med food here and she just went down hill too fast for me to get her the right treatment.
Sorry again for loosing her

Pix is right, Lynda. Dropsy is very hard to treat once it really gets hold of a fish. You did all you could for her, Hon! She is at peace now and not suffering anymore. Big hugs to you. RIP Apricot. You will be missed!!!!

What a beautiful tribute to an adoreable and very much loved pudgeball I am so sorry that everything happened so fast .

Thank you so much everyone for all of your kind words and taking the time to express them. As with everything in life, I, we all of us, can only take the bad things that happen and look at them as a learning experience, not focusing on what went wrong, but what we gained from what went wrong so that we can use it to not let it happen again. I have never had to deal with dropsy in a goldfish so I was completely unprepared. Apricot volunteered her little life so that I could learn and I will be so much more prepared, god forbid, should this ever happen again. The knowledge that all of you here share with the world, and this forum does cover the world, is priceless. Thanks to all of you.