Okay, I know we have been through this before and all, but I tell you, I am just not understanding this!
I checked the ammonia in my tank right before my water change and it was in between .25 and .50. I did a 50% water change and checked it IMMEDIATELY afterwards and the ammonia was still at .25!!!!! I am doubling up on the Prime because I am cycling the tank, but I still don't get it! I thought that if you checked the water w/in 5mins after you changed it, the ammonia would not have a chance to show back up and you would get a true reading??? AARRGGHH!!!

Have you checked your tap water for ammonia? What kind of test do you use? I thought ammonia would still show up on test though the ammonia has been "detoxified" by Prime.

No, sorrry sweetie, I think you misunderstood. If you check the water 5 mins after adding Prime you will get an accurate reading of ammonia which is ionized or bound ammonia that is safe for fish

You actually have a window of several hours to get an accurate test result.

Prime will not actually remove ammonia, none of the water conditioners remove ammonia and not all of them even bind or ionize the ammonia.

No ammonia in the tap water.



I understand that part of it now, thanks! However, I still don't understand how I can have .25 ammonia, change 50-60% (sometimes more than that) and still get an ammonia reading at all? How is it that some people have zero ammonia? Is this ONLY after a tank cycles?

Either you have chloramines in your water, so everytime you add water to the tank you are in fact adding ammonia. The Prime will ionize the ammonia and in a cycled tank it will usually be processed in 24hrs.

If you don't have chloramine in your water but change 50% of the tank water you would still have 50% of the ammonia left behind in the tank. That would be approx .125ppm. The test kits will only show the closest reading which would still be .25ppm.

Even a cycled tank will register ammonia after a water change if there is chloramine in the tap water, but as I said it is usually processed within 24hrs.

Prime is only effective for 24hrs so you can test again the following day and any ammonia/nitrIte present will be free and dangerous so you need to dose with Prme again to ionize it.

Hi Nickie

I'm sorry that you're having to wait such a long time for your tank to cycle, and that you're still having ammonia issues. I remember Vickie had a hard time with hers, too.
I don't have any ideas as to what the reasons could be, but I wanted to share something that I noticed when I was doing a water change yesterday.
I don't use Prime in my tank, instead I use API's Stress Coat. I was pouring it into the cap when the word "chloramines" caught my eye, so I read the front label. It says: "Now More Effective*" and then "*Detoxifies ammonia in the tap water, plus removes 33% more chlorine and 135% more chloramines than original Stress Coat". On the back (for ammonia) it says "Stress Coat also removes chlorine, chloramines, and ammonia, and detoxifies heavy metals in tap water.".
I honestly don't know if it would work any differently than what you have now, but I thought I'd mention it.
Good luck with your tank!!

Debbie

Oh yeah, I had a terrible time with the ammonia during cycling! I'm not exaggerating that I went through 2 large bottles of Prime, and that stuff isn't cheap!

Now, I have a question. Daryl mentioned that Prime is only effective for 24 hours. I didn't realize that. And the thing that bugs me about it is that it will STILL show an ammonia reading after a 50% water change. So here's what I did. Last week I was showing a .25 ammonia reading. I did a 20% water change, which I do weekly now anyway. I added Prime as I normally do. I didn't do an ammonia reading for 24 hours, and I had 0 ammonia. So thats what I'm doing now. I'm just doing the water changes as normal and not stressing over an immediate ammonia reading. I mean, whats the point if its going to show ammonia anyway? Even if its "safe" ammonia, its still going to read.

I didn't know that about the Stress Coat, Debbie, and I think when this bottle of Prime is gone, I'm going to try that. The reason I got the Prime was because I thought it was the only product out there that detoxifies ammonia, but maybe the Stress Coat will work just as well or better.

If I understand it correctly, Prime will also let your bbs use the ammonia if your tank is still cycling, is that right? I don't know if the Stress Coat does that, so that's something to consider, if you want to have ammonia to help establish a cycle. But if you just want to eliminate it, then maybe the Stress Coat is worth a try.

Debbie

Thanks to you all for the support! I just thought that since it has almost been three weeks, I would show some nitrites by now. Oh well, the ammonia thing still gets me. I wonder how to test for chloramines in the tap water? I know that I don't have any ammonia in the tap water, but I guess I could have some other stuff I don't know about. LOL!

It can take an entire month. When I first cycled my 55, I'm certain it took the whole 6 weeks. When I cycled Spooky's little 4 gallon, which actually holds just over 3 gallons, it still took an entire 4 weeks!

Yeah, but doesn't it take time AFTER the nitrites to show up before they get to zero? I thought that I would start showing nitrites at about three weeks, then it would take a few weeks after that before they got to zero and the tank would be cycled. The rate I am going, it is going to be 2-3 months before my tank gets cycled. LOL!

I looked at an old thread from about 3 years ago when I was first cycling my tank. And after a month, I had ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate. The ammonia seemed like it was a lethal level but dataguru assured me that it wasn't. The Nitrite and Nitrates were very low but it had appeared. I believe the tank cycled very shortly afterwards.

As for the Ammonia and the Nitrite once the tank is cycled, yes it has always been zero for me.

Thanks, JOH! Well, maybe by next week, I will show some nitrites and nitrates. Hopefully!

Are you using anything else besides the prime? I used both prime and cycle product together. My 29 gallon cycled in 4 weeks. I know some people do not like this product but I had luck with it. ALso the average temperature in my tank is 78 to 80f, and I don't have a heater in there.

Debbie, I've visited both the US and UK sites for API and neither of them claim that Stress Coat removes ammonia, in fact they say nothing about ammonia when promoting Stress Coat. Hagen also says that API Stress Coat does not treat ammonia. The only API water treatment for ammonia is Ammonia Lock which does not remove ammonia, it only ionizes ammonia in the same manner as Prime.

Are you sure you are using Stress Coat and not some other product? Or it could be a new version of Stress Coat and the web sites haven't caught up. Still, I'm having doubts that it actually removes ammonia, I will request more information from API.

Apparently this is a new and improved version of Stresscoat, as Debbie said that it said on the front "Now More Effective", and that it works better than the "original Stress Coat". I'm sure thats what she's using.

Nickie, just make sure your water isn't too cold (warmer is better for the bacteria to develop), you have LOTS and LOTS of media to occupy for the little critters to take hold, and of course make sure you are only using tank water to clean sponges/filters/etc....

It'll happen. Fairly soon, you're going to be complaining of the Nitrites..trust me!

My tank is usually about 72-74 at night, then climbs to about 75 during the day. I have a heater I can use, but it came with the tank kit and I am so scared I might end up cooking my fish with it. I mean, how do you use a heater while changing out water? Do you have to turn the heater off before you do a water change? The heater I have is not a name brand kind. Like I said, it came with the kit and I just don't want to hurt my fish!!!

when u do a waterchange u unplug the heater and try to match the temp as close as possible. Then u should wait about 10 minutes to let the thermostat adjust then u plug it back in. Heaters dont get very hot, I doubt it would cook ur fish lol, even if u touch it when its on u cant even feel any heat, it heats it up slowly so if u check the temp at least once or twice a day u shouldt have a problem. If ur scared to use that one then get a good quality one. They do all eventually wear out when the thermostat starts wearing out and will start overheating but this happens really slowly and u'll be able to catch it in time if u check the temp.

Okay, I will try it. However, I am scared to death! What if I electrocute my fish instead of cooking them????

That's probably why it's going so slowly right there. You'll just have to be patient.

Do you think I should add a heater?

Depends. I'm no expert, but I also know that all my tanks have been cycled with temps 77-82 degrees. You may want to get input from others first.

Do you have bacteria noodles in your filter?

What are those?

He's asking about your bio media, which I believe you have.

Oh Yeah! LOL! I have a small bag of bio-stars in the tank and a smaller bag (couldn't fit many in there) in one of the filters.

I asked about using a heater once, and I was told that unless you have extremely cold temps or fluctuations, that goldies don't need a heater.

Honestly, I know what you're going through. I didn't think my tank would ever ever ever get cycled! First, I had a filter go out in the 2nd or 3rd week. The old media wouldn't fit in the new filter, so I had to start over. Then the ammonia drove me crazy...the cloudy water from the water changes, testing twice a day, and on and on.....

The heater would be for the BBacteria rather than the fish - the beneficial bacs thrive at slightly higher temps. That's why when doing a fishless cycle, for instance, you should crank the heat up to @80. That is a little high for GF but certainly 78 would be OK, I should think.

u most likely wont eletrocute ur fish since they arent grounded. Trust me i've already done that to my tigerbarbs when the light unit came off the canopy and fell in the water, but they were fine afterwards.

Yup Yup! I'm using Stress Coat! Here's a pic (they should be thumbnails):

Here's the front where it shows the "improvements":

The back didn't all come out due to the curvature of the bottle, so there's two pics to get each "side".

Left: and right:

I bought this bottle sometime in September. I went to the website, too, and I saw that they were talking about their "new measuring cap". The bottle of Stress Zyme that I bought in January had the measuring cap, so maybe they don't update their website very often..? I would think, though, that with an improvement like this, that they would put it all over their website. It would be great if it actually did what it claimed. I don't have ammonia issues, so I don't know.

How are things going, Nickie?

Debbie

Debbie

The same...no nitrites yet. Still having to do about 50-60% water change every day. For some reason, my ammonia has gotten higher???

yeah, ammonia should get higher before nitrites show, theres a chart at the top of the page that shows the ammonia rising

Thanks Debbie for posting those pics, your a sweetie. I still haven't heard back from API about the ammonia but the bottle is contradicting itself.

On the front pic under "improvements" it claims to detoxify (ionize or bind) ammonia and on the back pic it claims to remove ammonia. That's two different things altogether, if it detoxifies ammonia then it will still show up on the test kits same as Prime.

Well, let's hope it's a good sign then, if it goes by the chart! Good luck!!

Debbie

No problem! Sorry it took so long to get back to you with them. It's my daughter's camera, and I don't know how to download the pictures onto the computer.
Interesting how they contradict themselves. I saw that it said "detoxify", but it didn't click. I'd be interested to hear what they have to say, so be sure to let us know!

Debbie

I sure hope so!!!

Yeah, thats how it should be going, Nickie. Your ammonia will spike and you'll have to fight that. Then as the ammonia starts settling down, you'll begin the "nitrite fight", lol.

I thought I would go insane before it leveled itself out, but it will and then you can relax.

Hi Fishermised

I was wondering if you had heard anything back from API yet on the Stress Coat? Any day now, I will be setting up my new tank, and I will NEED ammonia for it to build the cycle. (Fishless cycle) I don't want to use Stress Coat if it will remove it.
Since I'm low on the Stress Coat anyway, would it be best to use Prime - since we KNOW it keeps the ammonia useful to the bacteria? I've seen it at PetSmart, so I know they have it.
What do you (or anyone else) think?

And did everyone catch that earlier sentence?? "Any day now, I will be setting up my new tank" The stand is DONE!!! Go Hubby!!
I'm just a little happy.


Thanks in advance!!

Debbie

Congrats, Debbie!!! I know you must be excited!!!