Thanks!

Brad has claimed the pink shell. He has also claimed 4 more shells around the pink one. It was very sly the way he did it. He just kept going over there. Mumsy and Ricky chased him away at first, then they settled for bowing at each other which seems to mean the same thing to these fish as it does to humans. It's a polite little gesture. Mumsy and Ricky just got used to seeing him there and eventually stopped challenging him. He's so smooth.

It's an uneasy peace though...Ricky now has to worry about what Brad is doing, and about how close he is getting to Mumsy who seems to like Brad. I think Mumsy is a bit of a tease. I have seen her fanning her tail at Brad(apparantly, fanning your tail drives the boys wild) and Ricky rushed right over to get in between them. Ricky stays between Brad and Mumsy and is alway turned toward Brad so he can keep and eye on him.

It is clear to me that Brad has designs on Mumsy (Ricky is aware of it too). Even now Brad is pushing for more territory, edging closer to Mumsy. Ricky is not falling for it and keeps going over to challenge him. Whenever Brad is confronted, he starts bowing, (excuse me, pardon me, my mistake) then he turns around and starts inspecting his shells as if thats what he was doing all along. Ricky is placated and hurries back to Mumsy's side. Ricky seems to have drawn his border around the purple shell, and the large shell. Interestingly, Brad has not changed his home shell, but he does not hover over it. He hovers over the shells behind the purple one and stays there to intimidate Ricky.

Brad is not so distracted by Mumsy that he forgets his own territory, He is still keenly aware of Eastwood. If poor Eastwood moves even one fin into his territory, he will race over and give him a vicious nip. Problem solved. Eastwood is cagey enough to wait until Brad is busy with Ricky to make his move into his territory. He is easily put down.

These little turf wars show how important their territories are to them. This causes a problem with feeding. There is an art to getting food to land in the territories of each fish. I can't just drop food in the tank and let them serve themselves. I have to make sure a little food drops in each area because they respect each others territory enough not to cross the borders even to get food.
They are also particular about where their food is. They do not like to go to the surface to feed , they will do it, but are very nervous. They also don't like their food on the bottom of the tank. Most of what falls is left to rot. they will eat what falls on top of the shells though. My little Mental Patients like their food perfectly suspended in the water for them to pick at.

The babies are doing fine, the two that live in the one shell have been quarreling. I expect they will go their seperate ways.
The other little guy is hovering nicely. They all seem well and I am feeling good about leaving them there. Just as a precaution: I stopped feeding the adults brine shrimp. I have a feeling the previous babies got eaten in a case of mistaken identity. They are about the same size as the brine shrimp and kinda look the same.

Well that's all for now! I will take some photos and post them, or maybe a movie! So you can see what's going on.

sorry if that was a little long-winded.

I was wondering when you'd post again
Thanks for the update. They sound soooo entertaining.

That was not long winded at all! it just makes my day to read your posts.

J

well, I have to do an update! I was very worried, I could not see the babies! Yesterday I looked inside the shell there were no eyes looking back! So I watched, and waited and checked again and again, and what a surprise!!
At least one of them has moved out and moved in with the other!! Now there are two babies in that shell. I don't know if there is a third with them.
I can only guess that they must have gotten polluted from food or poop and decided to move. I will post again if the third one turns up. (I would hate to think that he died in the shell.)

Brad and Ricky are still in a standoff...........

A very good precaution Rachel! Good thinking!

Now if only that territory with Mumsy in it doesnt start getting attractive to Eastwood and North or things will get very, very confusing.
I find it hilarious that they "hover" when they can't decide what to do next..I can really identify with that

Great stories. I think these guys would stress me out. Haha!

That brings up a question, do you turn their shells over and dump them out when you do water changes? Or does the water movement in the tank keep the debris flowing out of the shells?

I haven't done much with the shells. It starts a war to move any of them. They have to re-establish property lines. I try to clean them by siphoning out what falls into the shells. I just have to be careful around the babies.

I know what you are getting at though. there could be all kinds of toxins building up inside there. I have read that each fish has to have several shells to choose from. Personally, I would like to remove some. I have never read anything about cleaning the shells. I joined ciclid forums to try and find out things abut them. I will ask around to those who own them, and report it back here. I am curious to know the answer.

Here I am posting again! Great news! Baby number 3 is safe and sound, and in a shell of his own. It seems the two that were living together were evicted by none other than Mumsy! She wants the shell, and she is digging!!! That means babies!!!!!!
I caught a funny moment with her and Brad: Ricky wasn't looking and Mumsy got to get real close to Brad and fanned her little tail at him. Well Ricky was clueless, so they got to enjoy themselves for a few seconds.
Well Ricky finally saw them and came over to break them up and while he was turned toward Mumsy, Brad ducked inside a shell. I swear I heard him snickering.....

I dunno, I wouldn't be surprised to hear that you didn't need to worry about cleaning out the shells. Let me know what you find out though, I'm interested to see what they reccomend on the cichlid forum.

[Edit] Oh, and WTG Brad!

Most of what I have read does not address cleaning, and does not mention the shells. Cleaning is recommended once a month.
I can see why. They really hate being disturbed . I have been doing the opposite to leaving them alone. I am in the tank almost daily to clean, I can't leave food in there to rot. I think they might be getting used to some of it. Ricky attacked the siphon the other day. They used to just stay in their shells while I cleaned.

Mumsy did something today that might answer my question: She went inside a shell and came out with a mouthfull of sand and spit it out. Perhaps they do their own housekeeping?
The one answer I got on a forum today was : don't worry about it. They are hardy fish, just make sure the ph is right etc...
He also suggested a microworm culture for the babies.

I had to add this: I have seen Eastwood move food around. He picks up old food and spits it out in one spot. If I don't get it out of the tank, he will bury it. I don't know if that is intentional.

Ha, fish that clean their own tank. I want some

you should get some! You would enjoy watching them!

I have enjoyed reading this thread, and seeing how your fish have developed as they settled in. I think if I were going to start a semi-agressive tank I would probably pick these to start with. Whats the name of this type of fish? I think all I got is they are a type of chichilid?

Neolamprologus multifasciatus. They are ciclids from lake tangynika.

Good news! My female is guarding a shell, that means babies are inside!!! My other babies are still alive!!

Oh, I know I would enjoy it, but I've got too much going on right now for another big tank. I'll just have to live vicariously through your thread

Not to be rude, and just so you don't embarrass yourself in the future, it is Tanganyika, not Tangynika.

J

Just wanted to say that even though I don't keep any fish even remotely similar to these, I still love reading this thread, the fish are so cute, I love the set up, you make them sound so fascianting! I'd love to see baby pics!

I would like to show you a photo, but they are so elusive. My sightings of them come as they zip out of the shell to grab a baby brine shrimp and zip back in. If you blink you will miss them.

They are very small, and don't spend alot of time out in the open. They stay mostly inside the shell. Today I have only seen 2 of them. I am hoping number 3 is o.k. I will wait until they are older and begin hovering full time.

I hope baby 3 is ok too. Look forward to seeing them.

That is funny and neat they do their own house cleaning ....the boys too ???

Yes, Even the boys do it! (I know you are having a hard time believing it)
They do like some sand in their shells they are always moving it around. I worry more about the empty untended shells. I have decided to remove a few of them. The babies have chosen shells for themselves, so I don't need more until the other babies are ready to move out.
Mumsy needs a little space anyway. They like to dig a pit around one shell until that shell drops down into the pit. They lay eggs in the shell at the bottom of the pit. Mumsy can't do that because there are too many shells around her.
The idea is to get the food to flow down into the pit for the babies. It might also be the reason that she is always creating crevices between the shells: to improve the flow of current in her nursery, and maybe also to give the babies a place to hide while eating. When the babies leave their shells, they stay in the crevices out of sight, and thanks to Mum..the food just floats toward them.

I learned something new! I was concerned about my Shellie's coloring, I thought they were a bit pale. Well, it turns out that they change their color not just when mad...they do it to be less obvious in their surroundings. I have mine on white sand so they are color co-ordinating themselves.

Oh, baby 3 is alive and well. He poked his head out for breakfast.

Yahoo! A baby 3 sighting.

Can't wait to hear their names when you decide on 'em

LOL The little shellie saga continues! Heck, you don't even hardly need to watch TV, I'll bet, with the sitcom going on in your tank!

That must be so cool to have little baby fish in the tank.... Hope they survive alright!

They sound awfully cute, cleaning and sparring and building like they do!

I had a bad Nitrate level on my test!! It was the worst I've seen in any of my tanks. My fault! I got busy at work and the tanks all went untested.
I was scared the babies had died because I haven't seen them. They stayed in their shells. These guys are tough! I still haven't seen baby 3 but, I keep hoping he is o.k.. Since I did the water change, the babies have come out and are very active.
I finally got a video!!Baby video

I did alot of re-arranging during the water change: I stood the Tufa rock up to give Eastwood more room, I added a bag of sand, and took some empty shells and re-distributed them to other areas. I was very careful not to move home shells or landmarks. Everyone seems happy with my decorating There have been no fights. I must have done it right or something because they are acting as if nothing happened. Perhaps leaving the landmarks in place is the key to happy tenants!

Sadly, Mumsy has abandoned the shell she was guarding. Something must have gone wrong. I am not sure if Nitrates could be responsible or not.

Does anyone know if Nitrates have been known to affect eggs??

I got a cute little video of Eastwood moving sand around but youtube is not cooperating tonight. I will post it as soon as I can.

I had to watch the video twice before noticing the baby darting in and out of its shell! Too cute. I love baby fish. These fish are beautiful (and so are the shells! ). They've got quite some interesting behaviors!

They are very fast!! Sometimes I think I have more than I really do! They seem to be everywhere at once, and they all look alike so unless I see them together, I can't be sure if I am seeing one fry twice or two fry once!

LOL I agree with MsAmpersand, I couldn't really tell at first where the babies were!

I'm sorry the video isn't a good one. they are hard to see without a camera. I'll try to get a better one later.

Meanwhile...here is Eastwood doing some landscaping. Eastwood

They are so cute when they are moving things around!!

I spotted the babies and I have to say I have some sympathy for all those who mistook them for brine shrimp But they are FAST so hopefully can dodge the next mouth bullet..

Oh and I love Eastwoods housekeeping skills. (I need to borrow him to clear the dust from the top of my wardrobe lol.) What a great party trick to be able to blow all that sand without swallowing any.

The tank looks quite beautiful. I just love the shells you have chosen. Where did you find those? I'd like to get some shells in a tank, they look really pretty.

So what are these?I'm lost.lol.They sound amazing whatever they are.

Great videos! Keep 'em coming. I wanna see more of the babies

Balashark: I am off work tomorrow, so I will try to get better videos. I would love to show you Mumsy "swimming" in the sand! It's hilarious!

Trinket: I got some of the shells at a crafts store, but not all of them were useful for the Shellies. But they are great decoration. I bought the snail shells from Amazon. They have a gourmet food section and these shells are the best deal! They are 9.99 for 24. It's funny, the babies like the shells that are shiny on the inside. I made sure to boil all the shells before I put them in the tank.

I love it when they clean up their own area by spitting sand into someone else's.

SuzzyQ: They are Cichlids, from Lake Tangynika in Africa. They inhabit abandoned shells, and live in little communities where they each have their own little territories. They are easy to keep and lots of fun to watch!

What type of cichlids?I was trying to get some(yes becuase you made them sound amazing)and they looked at me like duh what kind.lol.Apparently some get pretty large.lol.Which made me feel super stupid.lol

Neolamprologus multifasciatus. They are cichlids from lake tangynika.

They are usually referred to as the "Multi". There are other shell dwellers, these are the smallest. Mine are as big as they get.
Don't try to buy them by sight, there are alot of cichlids that look the same. They put them together as "assorted small cichlids" . They aren't shell dwellers. If you find them, they will have a shell in the tank with them. The shell is very important to these fish, they will stress and die without it. They will try to hide in crevices in the tank.

There is not much to tell the difference between male and female. The females are smaller, which doesn't mean much if they are all small. They do establish territories and don't like intruders, so if you see 2 that are getting along very well, and seem to tolerate each other in close quarters- it's probably a pair.

The whole selling point to me was they like to hide in shells.lol.I wouldn't find cichlids that dont like to hide in shells half as interesting.Would a 30g long be big enough?I cant seem to find the specific ones you have unfortuntalty.But While i was looking for them i fell head over heels for these Buttikoferi Cichlid,There so pretty. It's beggining to look like i might have to drag my 180 gallon out of the garage and but the armour back in.LOL.

I have not heard of those cichlids, but I am new to cichlids so it is all a learning experience. There are hundreds of species! some have not been described yet. I was reading about one yesterday that is a mouth brooder, it was fascinating. The fish pass from one group to another depending on their status in the community, and each group inhabits a certain depth in the tank!!

I will never give up my goldies of course, but I can see myself adding more of these fascinating fish to my tanks.

Yes, a 30 long would house quite a community. I was thinking of getting a 40 for mine if they become prolific.

O...M...G...!

I have found another baby! I was looking in the tank, getting ready to turn the light out (I always look for the babies) and what was peeking out at me from a shell??? A tiny new fry!!!!! Mumsy that little sneak went and had another brood un-noticed! I am thinking that she didn't really abandon the shell after all! The babies must have hatched, and have now moved over to her shell.

This is something I have discovered: The babies just seem to be going willy nilly from shell to shell in Mumsy's area. there may be one in a single shell or they may be rooming together, or with Mumsy. The elusive third fry has taken refuge in Rickey's shell. This evening when I got home from work, I turned the light on and found Rickey coming out of a crevice rather than his own shell. I thought by now they would have settled on a shell to live in. They still need protection I guess.

I am so excited!! Maybe there are more that will show themselves soon! I love them when they are tiny like that, all you see is their eyes. They look just like Goldie fry, like the letter y with two little dots at the end.

Mumsy is a frisky little thing!

Indeed Great news though

I have found a second baby fry! In the shell that Mumsy was guarding previously. I actually got a picture of it. it is blurry and also shows an older fry too.fry photo The dark dot that the arrow points to are it's eyes.

I also made a little diagram of the tank and Mumsy's nursery area. The older fry go back and forth between several shells, sometimes two of them rooming together. They even room with Mom and Dad. One of the shells that has a newbie in it, is also visited by two of the older fry.
diagram

I have some thoughts about some of Mumsy's behavior. I have seen her rooting through the sand, I think for food. She then goes over to the mouths of the shells that have the newbies in them and the newbies come out to meet her. they dart toward her as if grabbing food!! I think she is collecting tiny bits of food and dropping them where her babies can get them!! If this is true it is marvelous! What a great little Mommy she is! This would explain why she is always going back and forth to those shells.

There are articles on their behavior, but they don't mention this. They do mention that juveniles will help to defend the more helpless babies...if they can do that, it seems that feeding them is not out of the question. I have to read more...and there is one site out there written by an expert on Cichlids. I think I will e-mail him to see if he thinks it is possible that they tend the babies. So many of the sites I have visited state that the babies are on their own once they begin eating.

Most certainly she is- ...if that's what she's doing! It fits with non aqautic life (birds do it etc) and they do seem so 'human' these cichlids of yours! But on the other hand, what kind of food is she finding..I would hate her to be dropping sand in there Be sure to let us know if you get some feedback.

Your pics are just fantastic. The details and spots and lables. I saw one big fry and the spot baby. You should be a museum curator or whatever job it is that fixes up the museum exhibits with all the guided explanations and charts for visitors.

I am so enjoying this thread-it's a whole new world to me.

Thanks Trinket! I'm glad you're enjoying it. I have even bigger news now.....2 more newbies have shown themselves!!! I have 4! (maybe more!) I'm so happy! Besides the two I pointed out in the diagram, there are 2 in Mumsy's shell.

Out of 7 fry..there has to be a female or 2! I have read that they are slow growing fish, so I will be waiting a while.

Unfortunately, I neglected to bookmark the experts page, so I have to go look for it again. As soon as I find it, I am going to write to him and find out about my feeding theory. I will certainly post it when I get an answer.

I have removed the tufa rock from the tank. I could smell rotten eggs and I couldn't figure it out because it wasn't the water itself. It was that darned rock! it is very porous so I am thinking that the loose food and waste was getting caught in there and rotting. It was just nasty! out it came. My little mental patients are getting a second water change today. I will have to keep an eye on the ph to make sure it can stay up without the rock. Everyone seems to be doing well despite my meddling.

Brad came over to Mumsy's area and flexed his muscles at her for a minute. She was suitably impressed. Ricky spoiled all their fun, and chased Brad off. Ricky is nervously patrolling his border now.

Brad is waiting for Ricky to turn his back.. I found out that if I want Mumsy to mate with another male, all I have to do is move her shell to his area. She will not abandon her shell and go back to Ricky. (I would not do anything to endanger the fry though.) I think it is interesting just how attached they are to their shells. As long as her shell is in Ricky's area, she will continue to adore Brad from afar. Ah, unrequited love! so sad.
Mumsy is shell shopping over by the scallop shell (escorted by Ricky). Looks like she is planning another family. Incidently, the scallop shell is on the edge of Brad's pit. I think it is a ploy to get close to the hunk. Ricky must think so too.... he just gave her a nip to move her on home.

Eastwood is enjoying his domain free of the tufa rock. He actually made a play for Mumsy not too long ago. He is very brave because in order to get to her, he had to cross Bad Brad's territory and fight off both him and Ricky. He was not successful. He is now redecorating his home.

Two of the older fry have chosen shells (maybe) , they still run home to Mumsy once in a while but it looks like they are happy where they are. There is one sissy fry who is still in her shell with the tiny newbies. I have found out that the fry are very slow-growing and it may be months before they mature. A woman who sells them says she dose'nt put them up for sale until they are a good size....about 8 months!! By then Mumsy will have tripled the population in that tank.

Oh, I will not be naming the fry until they have chosen to stay put in their own shells. It's too confusing because they move around so much. They will get a gender specific name when I am sure what they are.

Mumsy has done it again. She's a machine!! I looked into her shell, and a troop of tiny brand new eyes were peeking back at me. These are new babies. The other ones are still there and visibly larger. Mumsy is once again going into the shell alot, and fanning in the entrance.

Fanning her tail inside the shell moves oxygenated water into the shell where the babies are. She is such a good Mom.

I am feeding them microworms now. I got some from a guy on the internet. Someone on the Cichlid forum reccommended them to me. I can see why! the worms are soooo small. I am feeding them to my goldie fry too. They still get mostly BBS and some ground up flakes.

Everyone in the tank has dug a pit straight to the bottom of the tank. Mumsy made a big ridge on the side of the tank next to me. I think she did it on purpose to get me to stop poking my nose into her business. I can't see her at all unless I push myself up on the arm of the couch. She is staying low in pit, right above where the babies are.

I wonder how many babies she will tolerate in that small space? It is getting crowded in there.

Brad and Eastwood are busy digging too. Eastwood keeps spitting sand up against the end of the tank, but it falls back into his pit, the pile just cant get any higher, and he is moving it all day. Oh well, it keeps him busy. Trouble is: he is burying all the uneaten food again.

Rickey is involved in some sort of secret project over by the scallop shell. He is creating crevices between the shells.

Here's another little video of a fry peeking out. I don't know why it looks so bad. It didn't look like that on my computer.
video

Aww...so cute

ha ha the fry is so funny

I just read your story on your shell dwellers I havn't laughed this hard in a long time what awesome little creatures!!!!

Thanks! They have given me many hours of enjoyment.

here's a little update:

I think I will stop worrying about my fry surviving now. They seem strong and are getting bigger. Mumsy has been actively snapping at them as if she is trying to drive them away. The fry in the video seems to be very happy in that shell, he hasn't moved from it for a while. I have deciced to call that fry Peek. (o.k.....I know it's corny). Of the other 2 older fry: one has moved into dad's shell and Dad has moved out!! I rarely see that fry, he stays out of sight in the shell or a crevice nearby.
I will name it Hyde. the third one is still with mumsy. It's name is Sissy.
I think they can still be eaten, but they would be more than a mouthful now. Mumsy is probably worried they will eat her new babies.

these fish have big mouths for their size. It's surprizing how much they can open them. And...they have teeth! Extremely small and can't be seen except with a magnifiying glass but they are there! a bit longish and needle-like. They look like fine hairs.

I guess the honeymoon is over. Rickey has moved out of his shell and has a new place over by the scallop shell. That's what his mysterious little project has been: A swinging Bachelor Pad. Too bad for him there is only one girl around. The kids must have been getting on his nerves. He is still guarding his family though. I think he might be getting conjugal visits too.

Brad is still testing Rickey but he seems to have mostly forgotten the new shells that he had claimed over by Mumsy. Mumsy had been covering them with sand as she dug her pit. Out of sight out of mind I guess.

Eastwood is still fighting the landslide in his end of the tank.

poor eastwood ,he's his own worst enemy !!! The neighbourhood eccentric !!!